The "Toyota TNGA" for Dummies Master Thread

Joaquin Ruhi

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The GAC-Toyota C-HR and FAW-Toyota Izoa are FWD only. They have a brake-based rear-wheel speed vectoring system called ACA. It's not a torque vectoring system since the rear wheels are not driven, but does improve handling (mitigating understeer). If I'm not mistaken, the Corolla Hatch gets the system as well (at least true for RHD versions).
Thanks for the clarification. I advisedly used "apparent" when discussing GAC C-HR and FAW Izoa as offering an AWD option. I Googled Izoa specifications (in English, naturally) for confirmation but came up empty one way or the other.

Thus, it seems that, at this point, Dynamic Torque Vectoring AWD is exclusive to the 5th-gen RAV4 and its TNGA-K platform. Lord knows when - or even if - it will make its way to TNGA-C.
 

spwolf

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Thanks for the clarification. I advisedly used "apparent" when discussing GAC C-HR and FAW Izoa as offering an AWD option. I Googled Izoa specifications (in English, naturally) for confirmation but came up empty one way or the other.

Thus, it seems that, at this point, Dynamic Torque Vectoring AWD is exclusive to the 5th-gen RAV4 and its TNGA-K platform. Lord knows when - or even if - it will make its way to TNGA-C.

pretty sure it is coming to UX... Since video for demonstration purposes used C-HR AWD vs blacked out UX AWD to show the difference.

So it is made to fit all of the platforms, it is question of cost. Cheaper vehicles get cheaper system. Rav4 gets both.
 

Joaquin Ruhi

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So the next Mark-X, GS "if exists" and the next IS will all be on TNGA-N
No. Unlike the FWD architectures, there is a divide in the RWD unibody architectures between Toyota (TNGA-N) and Lexus (GA-L) brands. A next-gen Mark X (if it exists) would be on TNGA-N, while 5GS (if it exists) and 4IS would be on GA-L.
 

maiaramdan

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pretty sure it is coming to UX... Since video for demonstration purposes used C-HR AWD vs blacked out UX AWD to show the difference.

So it is made to fit all of the platforms, it is question of cost. Cheaper vehicles get cheaper system. Rav4 gets both.

Yeah
I start remembering this video of the UX

Maybe we can find it on the top of the line Corolla / Auris / CH-R with the UX and next generation CT
 

Joaquin Ruhi

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pretty sure it is coming to UX... Since video for demonstration purposes used C-HR AWD vs blacked out UX AWD to show the difference.

So it is made to fit all of the platforms, it is question of cost. Cheaper vehicles get cheaper system. Rav4 gets both.
Not at introduction. It seems that, even in North America and Japan, AWD on UX will be hybrid-only. Thus, UX will launch with E-Four / next-gen AWD-i but not DTV AWD. In other words, UX 200 will be FWD-only.
 

maiaramdan

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No. Unlike the FWD architectures, there is a divide in the RWD unibody architectures between Toyota (TNGA-N) and Lexus (GA-L) brands. A next-gen Mark X would be on TNGA-N, while 5GS (if it exists) and 4IS would be on GA-L.

Craziness
Why Toyota did not make it straight forward

So I think there's a lot of differences between GA-L & GA-N

From the weight of the LS and Crown
I think the L focused more on stiffness and the N focused more on the light weight

We need a specific thread on TNGA and which model based on which platform and what's the difference between each platform
 

ssun30

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Thus, it seems that, at this point, Dynamic Torque Vectoring AWD is exclusive to the 5th-gen RAV4 and its TNGA-K platform. Lord knows when - or even if - it will make its way to TNGA-C.

Also the FT-4X concept hinted at a 4WD system with a low range for GA-C. I wonder if it will have a transfer case and a center diff lock like the All-Trac system from the 90s. This system will have a more offroad emphasis than DTV-AWD which is more about handling.
 
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maiaramdan

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OK someone need to make a thread for the TNGA and transfer the last few comments to it so we can keep talking about this matter because really until few days ago I was believing that TNGA is a universal architecture that can hold FWD and RWD / Uni-Body or Body on frame applications at any moment
 
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Joaquin Ruhi

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OK someone need to make a thread for the TNGA and transfer the last few comments to it so we can keep talking about this matter because really until few days ago I was believing that TNGA is a universal architecture that can hold FWD and RWD / Uni-Body or Body on frame applications at any moment
Actually, a "TNGA for Dummies" Master Thread was started over 2 years ago. Moved all this commentary that was off-topic for 7ES here.
 

Joaquin Ruhi

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Will the RAV-4 have the V6 it desperately needs now it moved up a platform level? Has anyone heard of any rumors in regards to this?
Much as I'd love to see this happen, I haven't heard any talk of the RAV4 V6 returning.

For now, I'd withhold judgment until the reviews start coming in for the 5th-gen RAV4 later this year. We don't know how its curb weight compares to its predecessor, but we do know that the Dynamic Force 2.5-liter A25A-FKS 4-cylinder engine is significantly more powerful than the 2AR-FE unit it replaced.
 

spwolf

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Not at introduction. It seems that, even in North America and Japan, AWD on UX will be hybrid-only. Thus, UX will launch with E-Four / next-gen AWD-i but not DTV AWD. In other words, UX 200 will be FWD-only.

It might be only few months of the difference, question of the system being ready or not, just like on ES where it comes few months afterwards.
 

Carmaker1

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Much as I'd love to see this happen, I haven't heard any talk of the RAV4 V6 returning.

For now, I'd withhold judgment until the reviews start coming in for the 5th-gen RAV4 later this year. We don't know how its curb weight compares to its predecessor, but we do know that the Dynamic Force 2.5-liter A25A-FKS 4-cylinder engine is significantly more powerful than the 2AR-FE unit it replaced.

A RAV4 V6 isn't happening particularly when Toyota is interested in downsizing and the luxury NX does not have a V6 engine, a la NX 350. V6 is being kept as a Camry premium and at minimum, for the Highlander and up. Especially now that the next Land Cruiser and possibly Tundra, will debut with a new Dynamic Force twin turbo V6, very similar to the V35A-FTS.

Toyota just might be targeting Ford's Ecoboost.
 

CIF

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I've noticed a very interesting fact about some TNGA vehicles. So far all TNGA-K, TNGA-L, TNGA-N and some TNGA-C (the Lexus UX so far) vehicles have floor mounted gas pedals, as opposed to hanging gas pedals. Most other TNGA-C and non-TNGA new Toyota and Lexus models have hanging gas pedals, with only a few exceptions like the current 4RX which has a floor mounted gas pedal.

Now different people have different preferences. However from an ergonomic and long distance comfort point of view, floor mounted gas pedals are superior. Also as it pertains to spirited, enthusiastic and more aggressive driving, floor mounted gas pedals are also superior as they provide better throttle sensitivity and modulation.

So personally I am very happy to see this change. This is another sign of the significant value that TNGA platforms bring to the table, allowing Toyota to offer not only more standard equipment but also more interesting standard equipment. 10 years ago if someone told me that in the future features like floor mounted gas pedals and engines with D4-S would be standard in many Toyota models I never would have believed it at the time.
 
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Joaquin Ruhi

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...until few days ago I was believing that TNGA is a universal architecture that can hold FWD and RWD / Uni-Body or Body on frame applications at any moment
You're hardly the only one. Peter Robinson of WardsAuto addresses this common misconception and more in this excellent and informative article:

Toyota’s TNGA Drives Savings, Diversity
TNGA is four entirely separate platforms, effectively, splitting Toyota into four separate business units, each sustaining its own architecture. What they share is the same engineering and design philosophy.
Peter Robinson | Jan 11, 2019

Only now, three years after Akio Toyoda launched the Toyota New Global Architecture, do we really understand the complexity and cost benefits of this multi-architecture strategy.

First perceptions suggested TNGA was one highly adaptable architecture, suitable for use for small and large vehicles – and everything in between – and capable of supporting front-, rear- and all-wheel-drive layouts.

Instead, TNGA is four entirely separate platforms. Effectively, Toyota now is split into four separate business units, each sustaining its own architecture. What they share is the same engineering and design philosophy: “lower center of gravity, attractive low-stance designs, responsive handling, a high-quality drive feel and collision performance that offers safety and peace of mind,” the automaker says.

RAV4 chief engineer Yoshikazu Saeki’s business card reveals the true complexity of it all: “Chief Engineer ZD, MS Product planning, Mid-size Vehicle Company.”

Only by breaking down this Toyota-speak can we begin to appreciate what TNGA sets out to achieve. Z indicates Product Planning; D the specific architecture; MS mid-sized products.

According to Saeki, the business units are ZE, for compact models such as the Corolla, C-HR and Prius and their variants. ZD comprises sedans, CUVs and MPVs including the RAV4, the next Highlander and Sienna, and Japanese Harrier, plus the Camry, Avalon and Lexus ES. The next-generation Yaris and other small, mostly Japan-only models are expected to be built on the new ZB architecture, while body-on-frame SUVs such as the Land Cruiser Prado, 4Runner and Sequoia are designated CV.

To further complicate the naming classifications, each business group uses TNGA followed by a letter that indicates the architecture. ZD becomes TNGA-K, while TNGA-C is Corolla and Prius and Yaris is predicted to be TNGA-B.

Toyoda, the Toyota chairman, says the company’s aim is to reduce development costs of any new model about 50% compared with 2008 levels. He wants to ensure Toyota remains among the top automakers, not only in terms of volume but also profitability.

Saeki says the major cost savings come through the sharing of the most important engineering “hardpoints,” such as the engine compartment, on an architecture by architecture basis. The engine compartment includes the front crash structure and firewall, and the width of the side body frames essentially are identical for all TNGA-K models. According to Saeki, what changes from one architecture to the others is the width of the engine compartment.

Otherwise, wherever possible they share the same steering rack and electric power steering and front MacPherson strut suspension, both tuned to best suit each particular model.

Using Camry as the starting point for all TNGA-K models, creating what Toyota calls a “progressive data base,” allows engineers to accurately forecast the entire crash structure for future models.

“Crash testing takes the longest,” says Saeki. “For Camry, we had to make prototypes and crash them. From this data, we can get simulation to forecast the crash data for all the other (TNGA-K) models.

“For the RAV4 the body structure – the longitudinal side beams – rear of the engine compartment is raised (compared to Camry) to increase ground clearance.” The benefits “allow us to focus on the upper body and our aggressive design.”

However, if needed, there are significant differences in the rear suspensions of the Camry and RAV4. Where the Camry adopts double wishbones, the soft-roader gets a so-far unique trailing wishbone, multi-link rear suspension that better copes with different weight transfers.

“We are in the middle of the process (of changeover),” Saeki says. “It might look complicated, but the new Highlander is like a big RAV4. The RAV4 is the entry (CUV) offering, and the Highlander is an upgraded version. The saving is in the budget, rather than in time.”

For the RAV4, Toyota shortened the Camry’s 111.2-in. (2,825-mm) wheelbase by 5.3 ins. (135 mm) to 105.9 ins. (2,690 mm). “It’s possible to go more (than Camry),” Saeki says. “Rather than that, the rigidity of the side (body) components is the limiting factor. It’s possible we need to add strengthening.

“The Highlander is longer (in wheelbase) than the Camry and, with the RAV4, sets the coverage range (of TNGA-K).”

Do the new architectures bring weight savings? Not according to Saeki, who blames both recent and future changes to crash regulations. “It’s a constant struggle with the changing regs, so there is no given weight reduction.”

Will the next Kluger/Highlander follow the trend to smaller-capacity engines? Apparently not. The current model is available with a V-6 and as a hybrid. Expect both versions when the new model goes on sale in late 2019 or 2020.

What of electric plug-in versions of TNGA-K?

“Plug-in is easy to do,” claims Saeki. “But it is expensive and we have to give maximum value. Price is the big factor.”

Two high-profile models are not integrated into TNGA. Both were jointly developed with other manufacturers: the ’13 Toyota 86 was part of a project with Subaru – because it retains its Subaru boxer engine it’s believed the replacement model comes from the same blueprint – and the new Supra, a co-operative development with BMW.

Our conclusions: A better appreciation of TNGA confirms it is far closer in philosophy and practice to the Volkswagen Group’s MQB, MLB, MHB and the new MEB architectures than originally believed. On the evidence of the Corolla, Camry and RAV4, TNGA is quickly bearing fruit.

https://www.wardsauto.com/technology/toyota-s-tnga-drives-savings-diversity