internalaudit

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Just shocked at the problems and service issues on that forum.
I read a bit more today. Crazy stuff.

Terrible experience from some and dealers don't know how to fix some of them. One poster said three of his friends sold their Taycans because of all the issues.

I think Toyota and Honda who kinda excel in HEVs will do okay with their BEVs.
 

internalaudit

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I'm hoping they get the grill right on other Lexus BEVs.

I don't know why it has to be a signature grill if it kinda mars the overall looks. Even Audi's etrons have the same grill shape as their ICEV counterparts but colored and designed differently yet they don't look bad.

The RZ looking good/perfect in black means there's something wrong with the grill design. Oh well, I'm not the target audience and hoping the IS BEV or smaller Lexus BEV will look more appealing.

 

Sulu

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I'm hoping they get the grill right on other Lexus BEVs.

I don't know why it has to be a signature grill if it kinda mars the overall looks. Even Audi's etrons have the same grill shape as their ICEV counterparts but colored and designed differently yet they don't look bad.
Although the RZ is a completely new and completely different type of car, it is still a Lexus so should be expected to carry some form of brand identity, which is the front fascia (including grille, if needed).

The RZ looking good/perfect in black means there's something wrong with the grill design. Oh well, I'm not the target audience and hoping the IS BEV or smaller Lexus BEV will look more appealing.

I was surprised at this mea culpa. While honesty is nice, this just gives too much invitation to vocal critics to argue that Lexus is lost in the woods, much like Lincoln and Acura were/are lost (both those brands were unsure what they should be and gave in too quickly and easily to critics, as witnessed by changes in their grilles).

I remember the early responses to Audi's Singleframe grille with many saying that it would be the death of Audi. But Audi kept at it and kept refining it. It was even copied (by Hyundai). It is now a recognized and accepted token of Audi's identity.

Whenever a brand makes a styling change, there will be critics but we have to remember that styling is subjective and there is no right or wrong. Give it time -- and the revisions that come in time -- and most people come to accept the change, in time.
 

internalaudit

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Although the RZ is a completely new and completely different type of car, it is still a Lexus so should be expected to carry some form of brand identity, which is the front fascia (including grille, if needed).


I was surprised at this mea culpa. While honesty is nice, this just gives too much invitation to vocal critics to argue that Lexus is lost in the woods, much like Lincoln and Acura were/are lost (both those brands were unsure what they should be and gave in too quickly and easily to critics, as witnessed by changes in their grilles).

I remember the early responses to Audi's Singleframe grille with many saying that it would be the death of Audi. But Audi kept at it and kept refining it. It was even copied (by Hyundai). It is now a recognized and accepted token of Audi's identity.

Whenever a brand makes a styling change, there will be critics but we have to remember that styling is subjective and there is no right or wrong. Give it time -- and the revisions that come in time -- and most people come to accept the change, in time.
Oh, forgot this was the RZ. I can be in the market for one, but only for a used one and if priced decently (which may never be the case with the supply chain problems).

The new RX to me looked worse with the hump back whale head design.

I still don't get how Lexus made it look nice on the refreshed IS and pretty darn okay with the UX and the NX but botched them up on the RX and the RZ (I know, it didn't deviate from the prototype much).

With the Audi, the grill doesn't draw much attention with its hexagonal symmetric shape. And usually, at least to me, longer than taller grills mean more pleasing to the eyes -- Porsches, old Honda's, old Toyota's, old Ford's. I guess I'm old-fashioned haha.



lexus-2022-ux-250h-f-sport-series-two-ultra-white-headlights-x.jpg
 
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mikeavelli

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I honestly have no issue with the RZ use of the grill. I agree the RX is the worst interpretation of the spindle. I am assuming it won’t be the last to incorporate the grill into the body which actually minimizes the black grill some people ***** about.
 

Will1991

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Apparently the radiant heating element can heat up to around 100ºC, but it's equipped with a built-in contact sensor that detects an occupant’s contact and stops heating. Even if it's at maximum temperature, if it senses any touch it will drop it to bellow 50ºC to avoid injuries.

Source: https://www.denso.com/global/en/news/newsroom/2022/20220413-g01/

(It's about the bz4X, but it should be the same component)

20220413-01g-04.jpg



And here is a cut out view from the motors:

150kW unit:

9f0c78441ffc8e99dffd9e97e38c5658_1.png


80kW unit with lower height to avoid impact on the boot space:

67cdb4a7edfc364781b616eb53abf7c3.png


They're also equipped with RC-IGBT to improve efficiency.
 

spwolf

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I read a bit more today. Crazy stuff.

Terrible experience from some and dealers don't know how to fix some of them. One poster said three of his friends sold their Taycans because of all the issues.

I think Toyota and Honda who kinda excel in HEVs will do okay with their BEVs.

TMC will have their share of issues... all new powertrains with dealers also thought previously by company that BEVs are not the future, yet, together with all new platform, all new multimedia.

Of course, it should be better than VW, just like TMC is always better than VW, but i dont expect it to be best anytime soon.

TMC like TMC will kaizen it in next few years.

ie 10 days ago I was told by Toyota dealership owner how BEVs are not the future yet, how one of the head of TMME told them recently that there are long ways to go and that EVs still have poor charging network, as example Bulgaria given - who cares about Bulgaria really? I never went there, dont want to go there. lol.

This is while they were waiting for first delivery of BZ4x.

I think that tells us a lot about how Toyota, still, thinks about BEVs.

So there is long way to go to change the mindset.
 

internalaudit

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TMC will have their share of issues... all new powertrains with dealers also thought previously by company that BEVs are not the future, yet, together with all new platform, all new multimedia.

Of course, it should be better than VW, just like TMC is always better than VW, but i dont expect it to be best anytime soon.

TMC like TMC will kaizen it in next few years.

ie 10 days ago I was told by Toyota dealership owner how BEVs are not the future yet, how one of the head of TMME told them recently that there are long ways to go and that EVs still have poor charging network, as example Bulgaria given - who cares about Bulgaria really? I never went there, dont want to go there. lol.

This is while they were waiting for first delivery of BZ4x.

I think that tells us a lot about how Toyota, still, thinks about BEVs.

So there is long way to go to change the mindset.
AWD BEVs seem to be far better handling inclement weather. Crazy how a 620 HP Taycan (with TVD) handles the snow. BEVs are really the future (where charging (home/public infrastructure permits). Ford just came up with a quadmotor 1993 HP BEV van. It's that easy to keep adding motors (modularly) for more power.

I think by 2026/27, consumers will have so many performance-oriented BEV choices that have reasonable MSRPs. Heck, I'd be happy with a 300 HP crossover BEV for my wife. I don't think we ever need any more power / torque for daily driving and we don't plan on tracking or doing anything crazy sillly.

Batteries are really what's dragging the conversion, and also because automakers still have time to dilly dally until 2025/26. I don't really blame them since it seems bean counters still think BEVs are more expensive to manufacture because of the high capital costs spread over a smaller volume. That will change over time.

 
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Will1991

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TMC will have their share of issues... all new powertrains with dealers also thought previously by company that BEVs are not the future, yet, together with all new platform, all new multimedia.

Of course, it should be better than VW, just like TMC is always better than VW, but i dont expect it to be best anytime soon.

TMC like TMC will kaizen it in next few years.

ie 10 days ago I was told by Toyota dealership owner how BEVs are not the future yet, how one of the head of TMME told them recently that there are long ways to go and that EVs still have poor charging network, as example Bulgaria given - who cares about Bulgaria really? I never went there, dont want to go there. lol.

This is while they were waiting for first delivery of BZ4x.

I think that tells us a lot about how Toyota, still, thinks about BEVs.

So there is long way to go to change the mindset.

We don't know in what context that head of TMME said that, which makes a lot of difference... For example, if that dealer is Bulgarian, it makes a lot of sense to make that observation.

As for TMC, we really can't mix what TMC and a dealership owner thinks about future powertrain.

I agree with you when you say TMC is coming late, considering it pioneered with the Prius and had a full production BEV by 2012 (iQ BEV).
But from a business perspective we can't say that because TMC is posting record profit each year, managing to improve the title as the biggest manufacturer by a huge difference).

Context is tremendously important.

This being said, if that charging curve from the bz4X with CATL batteries is true and not some software limitation on pre-production units... TMC need to solve it ASAP, that's not acceptable for 2022.
 

internalaudit

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It's strange. In China, the eight year warranty covers software (electric control system). I don't think that's true in North America or Europe. That would allay alot of concerns owning a BEV past the 3 to 5 year bumper to bumper warranty.


GAC Honda offers a 3-year or 120,000 km warranty for the e:NP1 and an 8-year or 150,000 km warranty for its motor, battery and electric control system.
 
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Hey everyone,
I was at Goodwood FoS over the weekend and I managed to take a look at the new RZ. I was pretty impressed with the flat floor and overall space. Weirdly there was no glovebox and the Yoke steering wheel was interesting.
I made this video on the RZ that was there if anyone wishes to see it?
 

spwolf

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We don't know in what context that head of TMME said that, which makes a lot of difference... For example, if that dealer is Bulgarian, it makes a lot of sense to make that observation.

As for TMC, we really can't mix what TMC and a dealership owner thinks about future powertrain.

I agree with you when you say TMC is coming late, considering it pioneered with the Prius and had a full production BEV by 2012 (iQ BEV).
But from a business perspective we can't say that because TMC is posting record profit each year, managing to improve the title as the biggest manufacturer by a huge difference).

Context is tremendously important.

This being said, if that charging curve from the bz4X with CATL batteries is true and not some software limitation on pre-production units... TMC need to solve it ASAP, that's not acceptable for 2022.

no, we are in Croatia. We have nothing to do with Bulgaria, nor have I ever been to Bulgaria.
We all know how they feel about BEV - this is actually pushed by TMC all the time, that BEVs are too early and hybrids are better choice.

I am just saying nothing changed even with BZ4x actually being delivered to the dealers.

I am sure it will change more and more, especially in Europe, as BEVs are taking huge market share. It will also change as their dealers are testing their own BEVs and realizing how much better they are than with hybrid powertrains in Rav4.
 

Levi

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no, we are in Croatia. We have nothing to do with Bulgaria, nor have I ever been to Bulgaria.
We all know how they feel about BEV - this is actually pushed by TMC all the time, that BEVs are too early and hybrids are better choice.

I am just saying nothing changed even with BZ4x actually being delivered to the dealers.

I am sure it will change more and more, especially in Europe, as BEVs are taking huge market share. It will also change as their dealers are testing their own BEVs and realizing how much better they are than with hybrid powertrains in Rav4.
Have you been in Italy? Italy's economy lives a lot on tourism. 100% BEVs in Italy? Not in 20 years.
 

spwolf

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Have you been in Italy? Italy's economy lives a lot on tourism. 100% BEVs in Italy? Not in 20 years.

Nothing has to be 100%, it does not work that way. In 2 years, Plugins have went from 4% to 30% in combined Western Europe sales. And diesels have when to around 10% from >50%.

Next step is BEV going to 30% alone, which is probably in next year. Right now, BEVs are outselling diesels in Europe.

This is across 30 European countries, all with different laws and subsidies, etc, etc.

Change is already here in Europe.
 

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Went outta my way to visit the new RZ display over at Fashion Island! They happened to have a Lucid display there too so giving that a shot was also on my priority list. And my, even as a prototype the RZ just felt so dang well put-together, as well. Nothing creaked, everything short of the touchscreen had such a nice tactile feel, and well, the new software as a ground up system is utterly fantastic and easy to navigate. The sound system was quite nice, if not a little lacking in bass, though something tells me that's not particularly finalized yet. And space was great in the back, I had over a foot of space sitting behind myself in the passenger seats in the rear. I'm in love with the particular styling on this, I can see the LFZ cues. I absolutely can't wait to see how this interior design translates to the rest of the vehicle lineup!
 

mediumhot

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The more I see it the less I like it. Which is quite opposite to new RX which grew on me so bad that now I consider it the best looking Lexus right after LC. In my case RZ probably suffers because of NX. New NX does nothing for me, I could pass by it and not notice it at all. NX looks a lot better in images while in space it looks invisible for a luxury product.