Gecko

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I'm still a little confused by Lexus' decisions for nomenclature.

RZ 450e is 313hp and 0-60 in 5.6 seconds.

IS/GS/RC 350: 311hp and 0-60 in 5.7 seconds.

RX 350: 295hp and 0-60 in 7.4 seconds.

GS 450h: 340hp and 0-60 in 5.6 seconds.

RX 450h: 308hp and 0-60 in 7 seconds.

Based on specs, it seems like RZ 350e or RZ 400e would have made more sense? What is Lexus going to do when BEVs hit 600+ hp... break into quadruple digits?
 

bogglo

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I'm still a little confused by Lexus' decisions for nomenclature.

RZ 450e is 313hp and 0-60 in 5.6 seconds.

IS/GS/RC 350: 311hp and 0-60 in 5.7 seconds.

RX 350: 295hp and 0-60 in 7.4 seconds.

GS 450h: 340hp and 0-60 in 5.6 seconds.

RX 450h: 308hp and 0-60 in 7 seconds.

Based on specs, it seems like RZ 350e or RZ 400e would have made more sense? What is Lexus going to do when BEVs hit 600+ hp... break into quadruple digits?
Just double the number RZ900e 3.2 seconds
 

Will1991

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Maybe for 600+hp we will see another type of designation like we had in the past:
IS F
GS F
RC F
LF A
...
LBX (I'm still unaware about this trademark being used)??

I also loved to read LE experience with the RZ450e in Spain:


And clearly, this is RZ from coupe (see RC) and not from SUV (RX), they're even comparing it with the NX:

2022-04-30-lexus-rz-450e-dimensions.jpg


Hopefully Lexus will manage to quickly ramp up production!
This isn't going to bring any breakthrough, but can be a solid offer if priced correctly.
 

spwolf

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I'm still a little confused by Lexus' decisions for nomenclature.

RZ 450e is 313hp and 0-60 in 5.6 seconds.

IS/GS/RC 350: 311hp and 0-60 in 5.7 seconds.

RX 350: 295hp and 0-60 in 7.4 seconds.

GS 450h: 340hp and 0-60 in 5.6 seconds.

RX 450h: 308hp and 0-60 in 7 seconds.

Based on specs, it seems like RZ 350e or RZ 400e would have made more sense? What is Lexus going to do when BEVs hit 600+ hp... break into quadruple digits?

how would RZ350e make sense when it is as fast as GS450h and much faster than RX450h? Or NX350. IE vehicles that dont have direct connection between engine size and model.

450e seems just fine.

Problem is other things.
 

Levi

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I have to say Lexus is very bold and innovative to come with the first steer-by-wire production car.

After Lexus, expect others to copy, you know, consumers want "tech", not cars.

Based on specs, it seems like RZ 350e or RZ 400e would have made more sense? What is Lexus going to do when BEVs hit 600+ hp... break into quadruple digits?

Will Lexus BEVs hit 600+ HP? If Lexus ICEVs are any indication,.....
 

internalaudit

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I have to say Lexus is very bold and innovative to come with the first steer-by-wire production car.

After Lexus, expect others to copy, you know, consumers want "tech", not cars.



Will Lexus BEVs hit 600+ HP? If Lexus ICEVs are any indication,.....
80 x 2 motors and 160 x 2 motors makes a 640 HP haha.

What the hell am I going to use all that power for? I think for a BEV, 300-350 HP is more than enough with our very low speed limits here in Ontario, Canada.
 
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I have to say Lexus is very bold and innovative to come with the first steer-by-wire production car.

After Lexus, expect others to copy, you know, consumers want "tech", not cars.



Will Lexus BEVs hit 600+ HP? If Lexus ICEVs are any indication,.....
I thought Infiniti had steer by wire when the Q50 debuted 7-8 years ago? It wasn’t well-received due to the numbness and lack of road feel, but still…

I’m sure Lexus made significant improvements.
 

Will1991

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To my knowledge, the first Lexus with “variable gear steering ratio” was the 2008 LS:


This isn’t Lexus first attempt, but it’s another whole championship.
 

LarryT

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Damn the allocation rumor seems to make this a hot commodity at 4900 units for MY23. I assume most dealers will love the feeding frenzy.

Or maybe Lexus is trying to make it appear that way because they recognize there won't be a lot of takers for the RZ initially.
 

ssun30

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Lexus nomenclature doesn't make sense. But still makes more sense than German brands.
 

Sulu

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I have to say Lexus is very bold and innovative to come with the first steer-by-wire production car.

After Lexus, expect others to copy, you know, consumers want "tech", not cars.



Will Lexus BEVs hit 600+ HP? If Lexus ICEVs are any indication,.....
I thought Infiniti had steer by wire when the Q50 debuted 7-8 years ago? It wasn’t well-received due to the numbness and lack of road feel, but still…

I’m sure Lexus made significant improvements.
Nissan (Infiniti) brought out the first car with steer-by-wire, although some argue that it was not pure steer-by-wire vehicles, since they have a mechanical backup in case of electronics failure.


After numerous decisive development advances in the recent past, the steering revolution is on the verge of a breakthrough in production cars. So far, the only production vehicles to feature this technology are the Infiniti Q50 sedan, launched in 2013, and the Infiniti Q60 coupe derived from it (2016). However, they cannot be considered pure steer-by-wire vehicles because they have a mechanical fallback system. The first production models relying exclusively on steer-by-wire are expected from 2023. Initially, they will probably not be produced by traditional OEMs but by start-ups and other newcomers to the automotive industry. According to conservative estimates, there will be around one million steer-by-wire vehicles on the roads worldwide by 2030.

Some bias is expected, seeing that this article is written by ThyssenKrupp, a German automotive technology supplier.
 

Sulu

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The 2023 Lexus RZ 450e is not, and was not, designed for the U.S. market.

Rather, Lexus head engineer Takashi Wantanabe told Green Car Reports, the RZ 450e “was developed mainly with China in mind”—which explains its range, estimated to be 225 miles with the standard 18-inch wheels or about 200 miles with the optional 20-inch wheels.

That’s not on the short side for the Chinese market, Watanabe noted. But anyone expecting the 2023 RZ to compete with the likes of Tesla or even the Genesis GV60, Kia EV6, or Hyundai Ioniq 5, there could be some different first prejudgments.

This explains, at least in part, why the Lexus RZ 450e has such mediocre specifications -- it was designed primarily for the Chinese market rather than the North American market.

I also suspect that Lexus forecasts (initial / first-year) demand for the RZ to be low so it did not build a version to especially cater to the North American market. Battery supply constraints (from Panasonic) could possibly explain why the battery is small (and why the Toyota bZ4X is also offered with a second-rate CATL battery).
 

ssun30

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If they expect RZ to be a resounding success in the most cutthroat EV market they will be in for a lot of disappointment.

On the other hand, the new CLTC is basically a free cheat for every EV. The RZ will be rated at 550km so they do have a point. If everybody cheats nobody is cheating.
 

spwolf

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This explains, at least in part, why the Lexus RZ 450e has such mediocre specifications -- it was designed primarily for the Chinese market rather than the North American market.

I also suspect that Lexus forecasts (initial / first-year) demand for the RZ to be low so it did not build a version to especially cater to the North American market. Battery supply constraints (from Panasonic) could possibly explain why the battery is small (and why the Toyota bZ4X is also offered with a second-rate CATL battery).

It is just excuse. Also they expect this vehicle to be their best seller in western europe right away.
All markets want lots of battery and power, because that is what competition offers.

Plus, if charging on Panasonic is anything remotely related to their catl in bz4x, it will be massive failure. By adapting slow charging after 50%, they ensure it is almost impossible to use more than 80% on battery on trip. Which essentially means you lose at least extra 10% compared to competition, maybe even 15% on trips.

So not only it is 200 miles, in reality it will be only 160m on trips but even then most likely you are not able to use that even.
 

sl0519

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It is just excuse. Also they expect this vehicle to be their best seller in western europe right away.
All markets want lots of battery and power, because that is what competition offers.

Plus, if charging on Panasonic is anything remotely related to their catl in bz4x, it will be massive failure. By adapting slow charging after 50%, they ensure it is almost impossible to use more than 80% on battery on trip. Which essentially means you lose at least extra 10% compared to competition, maybe even 15% on trips.

So not only it is 200 miles, in reality it will be only 160m on trips but even then most likely you are not able to use that even.

it sounds like they don't wanna put big batteries to potentially raise the cost and / or impact driving dynamics.

I will give it a pass if these conditions are met:

- weighs under 2100 kgs / 4650 lbs
- real-life 0-100 around 5.5s or 0-60 around 5.3s
- base price starts around 55k

Their claim will only make sense when all of these targets are achieved. Otherwise......I see it as a rush effort just to put out something to compete with other BEVs.
 

Motor

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spwolf

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it sounds like they don't wanna put big batteries to potentially

To me it sounds like they dont really want sales, so they engineered something that limited amount of people want to buy.

It is simple as that.

With BZ4X, people should be warned about not buying AWD version, unless you specifically need a city car that will not be charged at public station.
 

internalaudit

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I'm actually surprised if even 10% of members here on Lexus Enthusiasts are stuck with just one vehicle (let alone a Lexus) in the household. With two or more vehicles, this complaint about range and charging speed will not hold much water.

If price of entry and upkeep were not important to me, I'd probably go for something other than a Lexus a long time ago. Since when has a Lexus vehicle (besides the IS once in 2013, the RC and the LC) been an overachiever in terms of excitement and sheer exhilaration?

Lexus probably already knows its target audience and no way will it try to compete with other BEVs in its class by throwing away its trick of the trade all at once. Definitely not on the debut of its second BEV.

With supply chain constraints, demand for such an ideal vehicle would be so high people will start complaining they can't get allocated one. Also goes back to solid state batteries coming to hybrid vehicles in 2025. Lexus probably thinks LI-ion, in this current iteration, is lacking.
 
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