Tesla - Brand Perception/Opinions

mikeavelli

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I seem to be getting more and more as ubers and the build quality is atrocious. Feels like a kit car. Feels like a 20-30k car not a 40-70k one. It’s really perplexing to me.

Then on my last trip no joke i’m with my wife and kid sitting in the back and the front passenger seat randomly starts reclining and it won’t stop and pushing my legs down. The guy had to pull over and use the seat controls to pull it up.
 

IS-SV

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I have friends in Service department at Tesla, they said recent Fremont build quality has been unusually bad. Elon's focus lately has been guiding Service operations to fix problems quickly (not making customer waiting a month for appointment), and that is working btw. My guess is that Elon will refocus his attention on build quality at factory QC again, because that's root cause of most customer and Service department problems.
 

NXracer

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I have friends in Service department at Tesla, they said recent Fremont build quality has been unusually bad. Elon's focus lately has been guiding Service operations to fix problems quickly (not making customer waiting a month for appointment), and that is working btw. My guess is that Elon will refocus his attention on build quality at factory QC again, because that's root cause of most customer and Service department problems.
How does that work? Why does Elon have to babysit QC at his oldest established factory?
 

IS-SV

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How does that work? Why does Elon have to babysit QC at his oldest established factory?
It works because he leaves his ivory tower and practices some management by walking around (others should try it too). You are right he shouldn’t have to babysit but he’s capable when necessary, and those at Tesla wanting continued employment and continued lucrative tranches of equity will respond quickly with positive results. When he gives direction, it’s not to be ignored.

Note : Fremont is not really an old factory for Tesla by industry standards. It is an old ugly factory purchased for cheap and made into something highly productive by American automotive industry standards.
 
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CRSKTN

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When he gives direction, it’s not to be ignored.
I am eye rolling so hard at this entire thing.

He has to babysit his factory because it’s a ten year old car company run by a trust fund king-cel who thinks he is smart enough to rewrite the entire playbook on everything without consequence.

It also feels like a kit car because they’re making 30% margins on cars where a battery pack is 60%+ of the cost of the vehicle. It’s appointed like garbage because the remaining 40% has to fund everything in a company not particularly good at anything aside from some key areas

Enjoy your corner cutting and poor service and shoddy repairs and quite possible the most embarrassing steering wheel controls I’ve seen in my life.
 

Will1991

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Moved this last few posts to a new thread better aligned to this topic.

My opinion on Tesla is that Elon despite being the one that managed to save the company, is now starting to hurt the brand.

Tesla makes amazing BEV powertrains, but somehow is getting lost in so many nonsense projects with impossible promises like the Roadster 2.0, CyberTruck, Semi, solar roof and the worst of all that humanoid bot…. For a company that was so straightforward at the beginning with those master plans made it seem that are now completely lost and always missing deadlines, promises and not looking up for the costumers.

I already had a TM3 on order, but cancel it after a small test drive.
The way I see it is that it’s really hard to not get addicted to that 0-70 acceleration, but tried to avoid pressing the accelerator and I no longer recognized it as a 50~70k € car.
 

NXracer

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It works because he leaves his ivory tower and practices some management by walking around (others should try it too). You are right he shouldn’t have to babysit but he’s capable when necessary, and those at Tesla wanting continued employment and continued lucrative tranches of equity will respond quickly with positive results. When he gives direction, it’s not to be ignored.

Note : Fremont is not really an old factory for Tesla by industry standards. It is an old ugly factory purchased for cheap and made into something highly productive by American automotive industry standards.
Does Akio Toyoda walk every global factory daily to ensure QC?
 

IS-SV

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Does Akio Toyoda walk every global factory daily to ensure QC?
No.

Btw - Who said Elon walks every global factory daily to ensure QC?

But more to the point, yes Tesla still seems to be run like a giant startup, lol.
 
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CRSKTN

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No.

Btw - Who said Elon walks every global factory daily to ensure QC?

But more to the point, yes Tesla still seems to be run like a giant startup, lol.
It’s run worse than that. At least startups often know what they don’t know.
 

Sulu

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I believe that Tesla does not need to invest more in QC; it needs to invest more in careful production. Walking the end of the production and finding all the assembly and build problems is merely delaying the inevitable. It needs to be able to fix -- or better yet, build right the first time -- the cars they build.

Encourage the workers to build properly -- take the time to align panels properly or reconfigure the robots to assemble parts correctly, and do not let an improperly-assembled car pass to the the end of the line.
 

NXracer

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No.

Btw - Who said Elon walks every global factory daily to ensure QC?

But more to the point, yes Tesla still seems to be run like a giant startup, lol.
Has the Fremont factory changed? Berlin, Shangai, Texas are all nascent plants where they need to dial in (well primarily Texas) the factory. I dont get where a nimble startup like environment, where meddling CPAs are kicked to the curb, everyone has clear lines of communication between groups etc can move backwards.

I can only see it being an issue, if the line is being adapted to accept new products continuously or new production methods are being putting in place (I believe 4680 models are Texas, as well as gigacasts?)
 

CRSKTN

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do not let an improperly-assembled car pass to the the end of the line

Which is investing more in QC.

Everything you described in aggregate results in “quality”.

It’s why so many car makers would kill for a lot of the institutional knowledge Toyota has manifested
 

Will1991

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I believe that Tesla does not need to invest more in QC; it needs to invest more in careful production. Walking the end of the production and finding all the assembly and build problems is merely delaying the inevitable. It needs to be able to fix -- or better yet, build right the first time -- the cars they build.

Encourage the workers to build properly -- take the time to align panels properly or reconfigure the robots to assemble parts correctly, and do not let an improperly-assembled car pass to the the end of the line.

I don’t see how that’s possible with all those constant request for “end of quarter push” that started with a one time thing for the TM3 and now seems to be usual.

Another way to improve QC, at least here in Portugal, is to plan deliveries throughout the quarters… Usually Tesla tries to deliver everything in the last few weeks, overstretching the delivery center capabilities.
 
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Sulu

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The responsibility of Quality Control (QC) is to find problems -- bad quality. Any problems found then have to be reviewed -- by a committee of QC, Production and other Engineering groups -- to determine whether to reject (throw away if it cannot be fixed), fix or let it pass (perhaps too small of a problem).

If the decision is to fix, it is NOT QC's responsibility to fix. QC only finds the problems and then offers opinions about what to do regarding vehicles with the problems. QC does not -- and cannot -- fix problems.

If problems are already evident, the better investment is to build the product better, to avoid bad quality.

I am a Quality Engineer; this is what I do. I inspect but do not fix.
 

LS500-18

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I owned two Teslas, never again, they are a sh1tty, sh1tty company. Main reasons for dumping them:
- poor quality, needed repairs often. My last 12 months of ownership was 5 service visits with outstanding items yet
- declining service as sales grew
- things broke that literally shouldn't break - steering column stalk, steering wheel button, door handles, charge port door, headlight DRL, trunk latch. On normal cars these are things that don't break
- the final straw was sending a software update that slowed down my supercharging after 4 years of almost no supercharging (nearest one was 500 miles away so I only S/C a few times per year). Search the 85 kWh Tesla packs and chargegate - if you don't think Tesla won't send a software update to your car years after owning it you are in for a surprise
- company focus on new customers and zero on existing customers
- declining service in terms of being able to actually communicate with a human such as on the phone or by email - a thousand times worse service compared to a typical OEM dealership - sales side was good for the most part though
- the root of Tesla's problems is actually poor quality. If they could improve that, they wouldn't have so many owners complaining about service, parts, etc. They literally build poor quality cars that are expensive. Some are actually pretty much problem free but you really do roll the dice when you buy a Tesla.

I'm glad to be done with the garbage. The cars are fun but not great quality. I rode in a friend's Model 3 last month, he demo'd FSD which came to a stop on curves, drove into oncoming traffic and turned into a parking lot and started accelerating up to a dead end where there were semi trailers parked. The car shouldn't have turned into that lot at all, it should have stayed on the street going straight. I wish I had recorded that because even the owner was surprised. Full Self Driving is complete horsesh1t and will be for years to come.

Watch this and substitute the name Elon Musk in place of this guy, sound familiar??

 
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Tesla fans and customers value the range and convenience of the charging network over the dislike of sub-standard fit and finish. Tesla will no doubt be aware of this. I’m sure in time, the quality issues will be sorted out as more and more cars are manufactured, but I cannot see any way these problems will impact Tesla’s position as the leader in the EV sector.

A lot has been made about the quality control in the fit and finish of Tesla models, and rightly so. At this point, Tesla have had a long enough time to have ironed out these problems. For the money you pay for these cars, such issues just shouldn’t happen. And yet, year on year sales of Tesla models have been going up. This only leads me to one conclusion; customers are willing to put up with this — and Tesla are fully aware of it. No other automaker could possibly get away with these problems and yet Tesla are thriving. The marketing clearly plays a part — Tesla models are cool, driving a Tesla is cool. The unmatched battery technology and charging network add substance to the cool factor. I think it’s only a matter of time until Tesla finally sort these issues out as they become a more mature automaker, but I don’t think they’ll be in any hurry about it. The priority is maintaining a lead on battery and charging technology, and electric powertrains.
 

Och

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I think Tesla Model 3, and to more or less the same extent hybrids cars in the past, come with an affordable price tag and yet with some prestige/cool factor. Years back I wanted to buy an affordable car, so I put a deposit on a Nissan Leaf - for the same $ it was a lot more pretentious than a Corolla/Civic. Many people buy Teslas for the badge and bragging rights, but they are awful cars.
 

IS-SV

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Lol, should of got a Nissan Leaf. Glad we’ve consolidated repetitive hater rants in a I HATE TESLA THREAD.
 

ssun30

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>> Tesla still makes the best EV in all segments it competes in - obviously true.
>> Tesla's growth curve could continue indefinitely until it becomes the largest automaker in the world - obviously false.
>> Tesla could solve its quality problems given enough time - it's way harder than you think.
>> Tesla has a mysterious technology advantage over competitors - false, it's an engineering advantage. These are two different things.

My opinions and I don't own a Lexus, like Tesla, hate Elon and don't believe wide adoption of BEV is plausible in the next 15 years.