Tesla AI, impossible to compete?

Will1991

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According to a engineer from a major Japanese manufacturer, Tesla is at least 6 years ahead of everyone regarding electronics.

One stunned engineer from a major Japanese automaker examined the computer and declared, "We cannot do it."
(...)
There should be nothing stopping Toyota or VW from doing the same much earlier than 2025, considering their immense financial resources and vast talent pools. But technological hurdles are not the reason for the delay, according to the Japanese engineer who said "we cannot do it."
The real reason for holding off?
Automakers worry that computers like Tesla's will render obsolete the parts supply chains they have cultivated over decades, the engineer said.
Source:
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Automobiles/Tesla-teardown-finds-electronics-6-years-ahead-of-Toyota-and-VW2


Well, I'm not very knowledgeable about in car electronics or what is necessary to create a self-driving hardware, but, is it really impossible for the others to build something like Tesla does or they don't want to?
Because according to every Tesla fan, everything Tesla is the best thing, but they already had to replace thousands of "self driving computers" to get enough processing power.
Also, with all of this generations, how will Tesla manage post-warranty repairs?

I do look up what Tesla has managed regarding electric propulsion, but, from what I see almost all Tesla's seem like a beta version being paid and tested by the consumer...
 

ssun30

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The electronics used in most self-driving cars are almost the same. I don't get what this article is saying.

Sure there will be decade-old microcontrollers used by the latest Toyotas compared to a 12nm GPU on Tesla Autopilot computer, but that's not an apples-to-apples comparison.
 

Ian Schmidt

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suxeL

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I think there ahead in the same fashion as Apple Ios is ahead of Android mfgs when it comes to their overall user experience.

-inhouse everything. Mobileye, then Nvidia, and now Tesla inside. They set the targets, they workthrough delays.
---->Dont quote me on this, but I believe most mfgs currently rely on mobileye for their BSM, LKA, Pedestrian detection hardware

-software development, the amount of data Tesla has from consumers eager to assist by allowing tesla access to their daily activites is mind-boggling. I mention this has another huge opinion, as seen with Apple Vs Android. Apple ios products make due with smaller batteries and 1/3 ram levels, and yet pull punches on par with much higher ram devices from android...down to software
 

Sulu

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The electronics used in most self-driving cars are almost the same. I don't get what this article is saying.

Sure there will be decade-old microcontrollers used by the latest Toyotas compared to a 12nm GPU on Tesla Autopilot computer, but that's not an apples-to-apples comparison.
If the electronics used in most self-driving cars is the same (I don't doubt this), it is because this area of electronics hardware and software is still so new and specialised that there are few third-party (independent of the automakers) suppliers developing and selling to automakers (and more and more automakers cooperating and buying from the same few suppliers to save R&D funds).

The concern is threefold: Tesla's electronics are currently more advanced than what other automakers use; Tesla's electronics are consolidated into fewer individual electronic control units (Teslas have fewer ECUs -- computers -- than other automakers' cars, yet are more advanced); and Tesla's electronics are designed and built in-house by Tesla (rather than being bought from independent suppliers), so Tesla has immense control -- being able to constantly update them with over-the-air updates, for example.

Tesla uses far fewer third-party suppliers than other automakers (which is well-known) and if other automakers started doing what Tesla is doing, they would start buying from fewer suppliers.
 

Ian Schmidt

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I'm not convinced that going against Nvidia on this is really smart for Tesla, but ultimately the hardware doesn't matter as much as the actual results with self-driving and it seems like Autopilot's been basically plateaued for years. It's interesting to contrast with SpaceX, which Elon also owns but reportedly doesn't micromanage the way he does Tesla.
 

suxeL

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I'm not convinced that going against Nvidia on this is really smart for Tesla, but ultimately the hardware doesn't matter as much as the actual results with self-driving and it seems like Autopilot's been basically plateaued for years. It's interesting to contrast with SpaceX, which Elon also owns but reportedly doesn't micromanage the way he does Tesla.
Tesla is strategic.

They first paired up with, at the time leader in autonomous tech, MobilEye. Worked with them, before dropping that entire platform for moving forward on their own platform with a more vocal Nvidia. Right after that drop mobilEye was bought out by Intel.

Tesla then paired up with Nvidia, while simultaneously bringing the microprocessor king Jim Keller from Apple. (Jim Keller is the brains behind the rise of AMD Zen Cpus, AMD Athlon K9 cpus, Apple A series inhouse processors...list goes on but in short the company that hires this guy, basically is guaranteed status as leader of inudstry once his design comes to market ).....You can see where this is going.

Nvidia is dropped for a purpose built, in house SoC that outperforms anything on the market, even Nvidia.

Tesla for a good couple years has a solid foundation and lead in the hardware field.

Their only worry, now is regulatory concerns, and of course Intel, owner of Mobileye, supplier to the car makers of the world, who has Jim Keller at the head of design for SoC. While Keller is going to help intel further their core x86 brand, i wouldnt be surprised if hes being asked to assist in other areas of Intels business *cough*
 

mikeavelli

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I mean they should be more advanced. Their entire focus is electric cars compared to say Toyota which covers a spectrum so wide its mind boggling.
 

suxeL

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Toyota's California AI shop is no joke.
I would hope so, but in regards to this article and present market, Toyota's AI (and others) is still stuck in the lab while Tesla is showboating and on the market.

Its just the reality of the present. However knowing the historical trends, once the status brings their products to market, Tesla's leader position is gonna be challenged.
 

Ian Schmidt

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While Keller is going to help intel further their core x86 brand, i wouldnt be surprised if hes being asked to assist in other areas of Intels business *cough*
There's an important point about Tesla hidden in there: Keller and software guru Chris Lattner (another hire-away from Apple) both left Tesla relatively quickly, which makes me wonder what's going on there.
 

Will1991

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There's an important point about Tesla hidden in there: Keller and software guru Chris Lattner (another hire-away from Apple) both left Tesla relatively quickly, which makes me wonder what's going on there.
I started to think what is going when since you look at +900USD per TSLA share... For a brand who built less than 400.000 cars last year and is yet to prove sustainable profits... Go figure...
 

suxeL

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There's an important point about Tesla hidden in there: Keller and software guru Chris Lattner (another hire-away from Apple) both left Tesla relatively quickly, which makes me wonder what's going on there.
Keller doesnt stay for too long from position to position. Dont know how his contracts are structured, but his time spent on Tesla is about average. Im thinking he just gets poached out, cause hes the rockstart of chips.

Maybe something there to what you are indicating but rumors at the point
 

spwolf

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what article tries to convey is that Tesla managed to drastically reduce number of ECUs controlling various part of the vehicle, compared to traditional manufacturers who have always tried to separate everything.

It really has almost nothing to do with self driving, but rather with cost cutting which then enables them to invest more into battery/etc.

Basically you had new manufacturer come in and say why the heck do we need 36 different ecu's in vehicle that control simple things like power windows, etc. Traditional ones use different suppliers for different things and always liked extra reliability from single component not being able to render whole car useless. Tesla does not care or need to care about things like that.
 
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