Rumor: Lexus Vehicles to Get Twin-Turbo V6 Engine Option?

Levi

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I always heard that I6s were inefficient compared to V6s, and that they were difficult to package due to their length, but I wonder if modern tech couldnt make a whole new case for I6s. BMW does ok with them, but it seems they hit a wall without F/I.

I6 has only one issue: length (and height compared to opposite bank).

If Mercedes has confirmed new I6's (they have not officially), it's more than cost-saving measure. Many engineering efficiencies to be gained including ultimate smoothness, lower weight, less mechanical complexity (no need for balance shafts and other band aids for smoothness), offset by packaging challenges due to extra engine length.

V6 vs I6, from an engineering perspective, both have pros and cons. But businesses are profit driven, so all that counts is money. With dying V8 engines (no more V8-minus 2 cylinders), I6 is the only cheap way to have more than 4 cylinders. Notice, there are very few V6 on the market now.
 

IS-SV

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I6 has only one issue: length (and height compared to opposite bank).



V6 vs I6, from an engineering perspective, both have pros and cons. But businesses are profit driven, so all that counts is money. With dying V8 engines (no more V8-minus 2 cylinders), I6 is the only cheap way to have more than 4 cylinders. Notice, there are very few V6 on the market now.

Yes, we know those profit motivations and generalizations. That's why I brought up engineering advantages too.

Mercedes latest DI V6's (60 degree) are not V8-derived btw, unlike the old balance shaft 90 degree V6's. And this relates to topic here, a possible Lexus V6 tt....

This I6 modular engine development will allow Mercedes to produce a range of 4's, 6's and possibly a future V12.
 
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Dreski

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I think they're doing more than okay. M4 GTS proves how good the i6's engine can be. The exhaust note can be a bit better but I'm throughly in love with the performance and smoothness. BMW got the i6 configuration figured out. They're cars fitted with them are nearly 50/50 perfect balance. Soon Toyota will be getting their hands on that engine. (Hopefully)
 

Gecko

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I think they're doing more than okay. M4 GTS proves how good the i6's engine can be. The exhaust note can be a bit better but I'm throughly in love with the performance and smoothness. BMW got the i6 configuration figured out. They're cars fitted with them are nearly 50/50 perfect balance. Soon Toyota will be getting their hands on that engine. (Hopefully)

I don't know that I personally think the S55 is that great of an engine, especially compared to an equivalent V8. Well documented reliability problems and a torque curve that completely falls off just after 5k RPMs.

I would much prefer the 2UR-GSE, not to mention that it's also rock solid reliable and revs close to 7k RPM.

With all other things equal - weight distribution, balance and packaging - I think the V8 is the far superior engine.
 

Dreski

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I haven't heard much of any reliability among owners at car meets or beem forums. Don't seem to be having any of those issues. Can't argue with V8's being a superior 'FUN'. That's why I'm keeping my E92 S65 for life. Intoxicating. But we all know V8's are going away slowly but surely. #CAFE rules
 

Levi

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I must admit, unless it is an expedition car (reliable torquey turbo diesel) or a track car (high revving naturally aspirated gasoline), for a daily car I am now convinced by electric power, and thus my interest for ICE is diminishing.
 

IS-SV

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Good points Levi^, I also prefer specialized cars for different purposes (including sporting, or longer high speed freeway trips, etc.) too. And my mundane commuting/grocery-getter vehicle can easily be electric (or CNG currently) for me...

Lexus needs (for it's sporting premium sedans) new tt 6's.
 

mmcartalk

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I wonder why the don't go the variable drive supercharger route. I will keep just about all the characteristics of a normally aspirated large capacity engine, from a much smaller engine.

Superchargers, as opposed to turbochargers, are usually belt-driven, which means a loss of some engine efficiency and horsepower from physically driving the belt and pulleys (similar, in some ways, to what happens when you turn the A/C compressor on). Not only that, but unlike a turbo, the belt runs continually, even when the engine is idling, using even more fuel. The flip side of this, of course, is that superchargers provide instant power and throttle response when needed or desired, without the typical turbo-lag, and that the system is mechanically simpler than a turbo if repairs or service is needed.

Turbos, on the other hand, are more efficient, and run off the pressure of the engine's hot exhaust gases. So, in addition to heat from the engine itself and boosted air/fuel compression, they run at extreme temperatures, sometimes cooking regular petroleum-oil (water-jackets around the turbo housing, synthetic oil, and intercoolers have helped solve part of the extreme heat problem. Still, turbo-shafts/impellers have to me made of expensive heat-resistant materials, the whole system is more complex and difficult to repair than a supercharger, and power/acceleration lag is often still noticeable when the throttle is sharply depressed, though twin turbos are sometimes synchronized in their operation, one ahead or behind the other, to eliminate as much of the lag as possible. And turbos, of course, usually don't run and waste fuel at low RPMs or when the engine is idling.

However, in today's extreme regulatory climate, every MPG counts when you are dealing with the bureaucrats at EPA, DOT, and NHTSA. So, the recent proliferation of smaller-displacement engines and turbos, and the end (or near-end) of larger-displacement engines, both naturally-aspirated and supercharged, except for a very small group of vehicles.
 

Black Dynamite

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Personally, I would use this for the GS only, or a new model between the GS and LS. I would not add this to the LS line.
BD
 

Gecko

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With LS going upmarket a bit, I can only think they will also elevate the GS and create some breathing room between ES and GS.
 

mmcartalk

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why not return the SC name as a 4 door coupe between the LS and the GS as Panamera direct competitor ?!

Because then you get into the problem of defining a coupe from a sedan. Traditionally, coupes have had two doors and a separate trunk, and sedans four doors and a separate trunk (i.e. no hatch lid integrated with the rear window), But that all began to change with the 3-door Saturn S-series coupes with the half-rear door, Mazda RX-8 sports-coupes and Saturn Ion coupes with the two half-rear-doors, and the Mercedes CLS and VW CC sedans with the four full-doors and coupe-like rooflines. So where does one stop and the other begin?
 

Carmaker1

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This is a cool idea - never thought of this!

I had thought that's what we seeing with the LC coupe mules spotted in late 2013/January 2014, the return of the SC as a four-door coupe. I learned it was really the LC later on.
 

maiaramdan

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frankly speaking either we like it or not
but this niche category is somehow a must for LEXUS to go on as a real direct top notch European car maker rival
something to go on with the Panamera / Rapide more than A7 / CLS
and honestly the SC was always about the lux. full-size coupe!
 

Levi

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Because then you get into the problem of defining a coupe from a sedan. Traditionally, coupes have had two doors and a separate trunk, and sedans four doors and a separate trunk (i.e. no hatch lid integrated with the rear window), But that all began to change with the 3-door Saturn S-series coupes with the half-rear door, Mazda RX-8 sports-coupes and Saturn Ion coupes with the two half-rear-doors, and the Mercedes CLS and VW CC sedans with the four full-doors and coupe-like rooflines. So where does one stop and the other begin?

It is way more than that, and again it all has to with customer/consumer ignorance and business profit. The main difference between a normal car (sedan) and a sports car (mostly coupe) is in dynamics. A sports car, to fulfill its purpose, has to be faster than a normal car, so to achieve this you would technically focus on suspension geometry (double wishbone), center of gravity (dry sump, low roof height thus little head room), weight distribution (mid-engine, transaxle if front engine to get rear biased distribution), low overall weight (and thus loss of practicality like rear seats).

If a sports car has 2 seats compared to a normal car with 2 seat rows, so at least 4 seats, there is a niche in making a sports car with 4 seats, and so four doors. But now on the market, all German 4 door coupes are not pure sports cars with 4 seats and 4 doors, but just marketing products that work thanks to German badge prestige. I can think of only one true 4 seats sports car: the Ferrari FF/GTC4, but it has only two doors, 4 could have been possible. It has dry sump and low roof (low CoG), mid-front engine with transaxle (rear biased weight distribution), relatively light for its size (1.800 kg for 4.9 m).

While many cars on the market may seem interesting, they are mostly (because of platform and component sharing) nothing else than a slight variation of the same flavor, and consequently for someone as me claiming to be knowledgeable, uninteresting mediocrity.

The real change I hope to come will be with BEVs, where the differences between normal and sport are going to be totally blurred (already the case with suspensions settings that can with the flip of the switch be comfortable or hard, have little role or high articulation, think Toyota KDSS).

Conclusion: The job of defining is given to the marketing department, and that is an error, it must be given to the engineering department. I want products to be built by engineers, not marketeers. A 4 door coupes are not built by engineers, but one of them seems to be and is scheduled for 2018: Porsche Mission-E.
 
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Interesting. How about we put the TT V6 from the new LS into an IS and we'll make a quick IS F. I feel like the RC F and GS F engines should be replaced too......