Official Lexus Future Product & Powertrain Megathread

[ssun30]

GAC-Toyota launched the 2019 Camry 2.0 yesterday. Most notable thing about the new model year is switching from the older 6AR-FSE to the new ChDM M20C-FKS. Compared to the international model M20A the engine has a minor power bump from 168hp to 176hp and torque bump from 203N.m to 210N.m (over a wider range as well). With this update the Dynamic Force 2.0 has matched the 2GR-FSE in specific output while running on regular fuel.

TMEC started working on the software for M20C in 2017 and then they said the engine will deliver the power of the 2.5L 2AR-FE while consuming same amount of fuel as the 1.8L 2ZR-FE. Now it seems that they have delivered on the promise.

I know this is pretty much out of the question now that they've committed to forced induction at the high end. But just think about what they can build if they scale this up to a 3.5L V6, a 5.0L V8, or even a 5.7L V8... with premium fuel and non-restrictive intake and exhaust we could be looking at 100hp/L for an output-optimized Dynamic Force engine.

*There's still a spot for a nicely balanced naturally aspirated V8 for utility vehicles in that chart.

 

[carguy420]

GAC-Toyota launched the 2019 Camry 2.0 yesterday. Most notable thing about the new model year is switching from the older 6AR-FSE to the new ChDM M20C-FKS. Compared to the international model M20A the engine has a minor power bump from 168hp to 176hp and torque bump from 203N.m to 210N.m (over a wider range as well). With this update the Dynamic Force 2.0 has matched the 2GR-FSE in specific output while running on regular fuel.

TMEC started working on the software for M20C in 2017 and then they said the engine will deliver the power of the 2.5L 2AR-FE while consuming same amount of fuel as the 1.8L 2ZR-FE. Now it seems that they have delivered on the promise.

I know this is pretty much out of the question now that they've committed to forced induction at the high end. But just think about what they can build if they scale this up to a 3.5L V6, a 5.0L V8, or even a 5.7L V8... with premium fuel and non-restrictive intake and exhaust we could be looking at 100hp/L for an output-optimized Dynamic Force engine.

*There's still a spot for a nicely balanced naturally aspirated V8 for utility vehicles in that chart.

Regular fuel as in RON 91 or RON 95?

I hope Toyota can squeeze a bit more juice out of the M15C-FKS, if that's possible.

Is it possible that the other Dynamic Force V8 is naturally aspirated? Or is Toyota really going to have 2 turbocharged V8s sitting at the top of their engine lineup?

 

[ssun30]

Regular fuel as in RON 91 or RON 95?

I hope Toyota can squeeze a bit more juice out of the M15C-FKS, if that's possible.

Regular is 87AKI/91RON in U.S. and China.

We know the M15C-FKS will have lower specific output and torque than the other DF engines because the Inline-3 has higher stress.

 

[spwolf]

btw, M20A has various configurations worldwide... in Euro Rav4, it has 175hp and 208nm.

I doubt 5nm or 5hp matters at all... what matters is that engine has D4S, is free revving, not noisy and has integration with probably best CVT in the world.
That means when you are driving around town, you will have plenty of torque from 2000 rpm, wont be weird like CVTs when approaching stops and taking off, and will like to rev to its limit.

 

[flexus]

Toyota will launch FCEV Estima in next year according to this.

https://s.response.jp/article/2019/02/27/319547.html

 

[carguy420]

Regular is 87AKI/91RON in U.S. and China.

We know the M15C-FKS will have lower specific output and torque than the other DF engines because the Inline-3 has higher stress.

Then it better have very good low end torque and throttle response.

The performance of the dirt cheap non-ESTEC 2NR-FE is only so-so.

 

[spwolf]

Then it better have very good low end torque and throttle response.

The performance of the dirt cheap non-ESTEC 2NR-FE is only so-so.

depends in what car, it is cheap powertrain afterall... but M15C should be better with response, especially if it ends up having D4S in most countries (it might not).

 

[mikeavelli]

Wife’s lease on her RX is up soon.. no new power trains... no LF-1...

Might look at a 450h...

 

[spwolf]

Wife’s lease on her RX is up soon.. no new power trains... no LF-1...

Might look at a 450h...

i think 450h got dropped in price significantly few months back, but also MMC is only few months away, as is all new highlander, which will be interesting to see where new powertrains go.

 

[Gecko]

Wife’s lease on her RX is up soon.. no new power trains... no LF-1...

Might look at a 450h...

2020 Highlander.

 

[James]

Wife’s lease on her RX is up soon.. no new power trains... no LF-1...

Might look at a 450h...

Does it have to be SUV? Maybe she’d like the LC lol yeah we are in a tricky spot here waiting on new power trains on some models especially with leases. Could you do just a shorter lease timeframe?

 

[mikeavelli]

i think 450h got dropped in price significantly few months back, but also MMC is only few months away, as is all new highlander, which will be interesting to see where new powertrains go.

I totally forgot that, thanks. Just looked and a RX 450h with what seems to be the same options as our 350 F-Sport (MSRP 62k) is around the same price. Wow that a deal.

2020 Highlander.

If we got a Toyota it likely would be the Camry. We both like it a lot.

Does it have to be SUV? Maybe she’d like the LC lol yeah we are in a tricky spot here waiting on new power trains on some models especially with leases. Could you do just a shorter lease timeframe?

She actually shocked me yesterday and told me she misses her GS F-Sport and it was the best car she had. Our kid is now 4 so she stated she doesn't need all the extra space (no diaper changes etc) and kinda wants a cool car our kid likes (he is a car guy already, hates the RX, either likes the RC F or cars I bring home like the LC, Roush Mustang etc)...

Thing is GS is getting canned so that would mean either ES or LS possibly. But I'm shocked not to be limited to SUVs!

Relating to this thread I really would like a new powertrain in the next ride.

 

[TheNerdyPotato]

I forgot that the RX got the updated 2GR and 8AT back in 2015 for MY2016. I think TMC is gonna sit on that powertrain for a couple more years before rolling out something else because it's been on mass-produced Toyotas for less time and they wanna milk it.

 

[flexus]

Is there any difference between 450h and 500h

 

[Ian Schmidt]

She actually shocked me yesterday and told me she misses her GS F-Sport and it was the best car she had. Our kid is now 4 so she stated she doesn't need all the extra space (no diaper changes etc) and kinda wants a cool car our kid likes (he is a car guy already, hates the RX, either likes the RC F or cars I bring home like the LC, Roush Mustang etc)...

Thing is GS is getting canned so that would mean either ES or LS possibly. But I'm shocked not to be limited to SUVs!

Mini-Mike needs a road trip in a '78 Ford LTD wagon to understand (if not appreciate) why the RX is actually a great car

Congrats on not being stuck on SUVs!

 

[TheNerdyPotato]

Is there any difference between 450h and 500h

Yes. 450h, I believe, uses a 2GR variant and a normal CVT, while the 500h uses (and correct me if I'm wrong) an 8GR variant and the compound transmission (CVT+4AT). The engine designations may vary based on what market it was built for.

Edit: Also, the 500h is only available in RWD right now, as opposed to the 450h which can be had in transverse FWD/AWD setups. Just speculating here, but I would assume that the more complicated transmission is larger and doesn't fit transversely.

 

[mikeavelli]

Yes. 450h, I believe, uses a 2GR variant and a normal CVT, while the 500h uses (and correct me if I'm wrong) an 8GR variant and the compound transmission (CVT+4AT). The engine designations may vary based on what market it was built for.

Edit: Also, the 500h is only available in RWD right now, as opposed to the 450h which can be had in transverse FWD/AWD setups. Just speculating here, but I would assume that the more complicated transmission is larger and doesn't fit transversely.

The trick transmission in the LC 500h (is it in the LS, I am actually not sure) is glorious, a work of art. As a previous GS 450h owner with the CVT it was cool but it wasn't an enthusiasts transmission at all. The LC 500h is mind blowing in comparison.

 

[flexus]

Yes. 450h, I believe, uses a 2GR variant and a normal CVT, while the 500h uses (and correct me if I'm wrong) an 8GR variant and the compound transmission (CVT+4AT). The engine designations may vary based on what market it was built for.

Edit: Also, the 500h is only available in RWD right now, as opposed to the 450h which can be had in transverse FWD/AWD setups. Just speculating here, but I would assume that the more complicated transmission is larger and doesn't fit transversely.

The trick transmission in the LC 500h (is it in the LS, I am actually not sure) is glorious, a work of art. As a previous GS 450h owner with the CVT it was cool but it wasn't an enthusiasts transmission at all. The LC 500h is mind blowing in comparison.

Interesting! So the engine and hybrid system are basically same but the transmission is different.

 

[TheNerdyPotato]

Interesting! So the engine and hybrid system are basically same but the transmission is different.

There's probably more to it than that, but that's the main difference that popped into my head. A quick Googling shows that the GS 450h is rated at 338hp, while the LC 500h is rated at 354hp.

 

[ssun30]

Interesting! So the engine and hybrid system are basically same but the transmission is different.

The ICE is different. 450h uses the 2GR-FXE, which is port-injection only on the RX and D-4S dual-injection on the GS. 500h uses the 8GR-FXS which has a slight efficiency bump vs the 2GR-FXE.

Also when talking about PS hybrids there is no such concept as a traditional transmission. The hybrid system IS the transmission. The older 450h is a PSD coupled to a Ravigenaux gear set making a two-stage hybrid system. The 500h is a PSD coupled to two planetary gear sets making a four-stage hybrid system. There is no CVT in a PS hybrid, it just behaves like a CVT. The multi-stage is not a CVT mated to a 4AT, it behaves like that.
It's just that Toyota uses these terminologies to make it easier to understand for the general public.