supra93

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2u21-svx-o-s3llmp1_9x-png.5337

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ssun30

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I think this reveal is the most significant for the EV industry because it covers almost every niche. It's a show of force to demonstrate the huge amount of resources and financial power they possess to deliver this full lineup.

16 products over 8 years equals two products per year, and that's in addition to the ICEV/HV/PHV/FCV they are going to release. The average car maker can't even reliably deliver 2 ICE models per year. The difficulty of execution is extreme.
 

carguy420

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Bro their plan is let GM build the vehicles and slap
Honda and Acura badges on it lol.

Sad that Infiniti had a EV strategy in the early 2010s they backed out on. They would have been way ahead by now .
I remember back when Toyota had a bit of partnership with GM, things were the other way around, GM was the one that wants to slap their badges on Toyota's cars because GM sucked so badly at making good compact cars lol.

Actually now I'm looking forward to see how the Honda fanboys are going to react when Honda finally debut the production versions of those rebadge GM piles🤣, considering how prideful they are about the Honda brand.

Well what can one even expect from Infiniti, I mean their parent company has been in a sh!tstorm for over 2 decades already, they can barely save themselves let alone their luxury division. I find it funny that Nissan somehow thought it was a great idea to dump the time, money and resources to develop their VC-T technology, which has been shown to be unable to offer any of the claimed benefits(improved performance and fuel economy), yet it still introduced extra cost and complexity, not to mention their variable compression mechanism can only work with inline engines.
 

ssun30

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The future is not H2 ICEV. It will always have (much) less range than a H2 FCV. If FCV couldn't prove themselves feasible in the passenger car market, H2 ICEVs will have an even harder time. It's simple maths: Gen 2 Mirai's FC stack has 67% thermal efficiency while the GR Corolla H2 is rumored to be at best 40%. The fuel cell gets 70% more energy as usable work than an ICE, and that translates to 70% better fuel economy in real world.

As a niche definitely. There will be people wanting to enjoy the sound of ICE, and not care about range/fuel consumption but that's a minority. Most people don't care about sound and listen to the stereo anyway. The younger generation will grow up thinking all cars are quiet.

I find it funny that Nissan somehow thought it was a great idea to dump the time, money and resources to develop their VC-T technology, which has been shown to be unable to offer any of the claimed benefits(improved performance and fuel economy), yet it still introduced extra cost and complexity, not to mention their variable compression mechanism can only work with inline engines.
Now I think about it, will Toyota keep investing in Dynamic Force 2 that was planned to come before 2025? They saw Mazda struggle with Skyactiv-X and Nissan's VC-T was a pile of trash. Would the continuation of 2ZR on next-gen Prius be a sign that they are cutting back on ICE development? Dynamic Force 2 involves electric supercharging which is an expensive and high risk item. Sure they have been testing those on the Mirai FCV for several years now, but it will still be extra cost.

Dynamic Force 1 is perfectly balanced when it comes to specific output, efficiency and cost of production. Even here they have to cut costs by omitting some technology on for example the T24.
 

carguy420

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Now I think about it, will Toyota keep investing in Dynamic Force 2 that was planned to come before 2025? They saw Mazda struggle with Skyactiv-X and Nissan's VC-T was a pile of trash. Would the continuation of 2ZR on next-gen Prius be a sign that they are cutting back on ICE development? Dynamic Force 2 involves electric supercharging which is an expensive and high risk item. Sure they have been testing those on the Mirai FCV for several years now, but it will still be extra cost.

Dynamic Force 1 is perfectly balanced when it comes to specific output, efficiency and cost of production. Even here they have to cut costs by omitting some technology on for example the T24.
I've always been wondering why the 2ZR hybrid still keeps soldiering on and not get replaced, the M15A hybrid is only slightly less powerful than the current 2ZR hybrid, with better motors and batteries it could easily match the 2ZR hybrid's performance while getting better fuel economy.

I agree that DF 1 right now is already at the sweet spot, we are probably at the point that trying to significantly improve a petrol/gasoline ICE's thermal efficiency will probably introduce a lot more complexity but not actually bring much improvements in efficiency and performance, I do hope that Toyota can prove me wrong though.

Nissan's VC-T is a really hot garbage technology, like did they only found out that it doesn't actually bring any meaningful improvements in performance and efficiency until they are already so late into the development phase that if they don't bring it into production they will bleed even more money than they already do? But then again Nissan has long history of building engines that are more impressive on the surface than they are when being tested properly in the real world.
 

ssun30

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I've always been wondering why the 2ZR hybrid still keeps soldiering on and not get replaced, the M15A hybrid is only slightly less powerful than the current 2ZR hybrid, with better motors and batteries it could easily match the 2ZR hybrid's performance while getting better fuel economy.

I agree that DF 1 right now is already at the sweet spot, we are probably at the point that trying to significantly improve a petrol/gasoline ICE's thermal efficiency will probably introduce a lot more complexity but not actually bring much improvements in efficiency and performance, I do hope that Toyota can prove me wrong though.

Nissan's VC-T is a really hot garbage technology, like did they only found out that it doesn't actually bring any meaningful improvements in performance and efficiency until they are already so late into the development phase that if they don't bring it into production they will bleed even more money than they already do? But then again Nissan has long history of building engines that are more impressive on the surface than they are when being tested properly in the real world.
2ZR-FXE shares production line with 2ZR-FE and 2ZR-FAE. These engines are still used in many Corolla-derived products around the world. Economy of scale + all fixed costs already paid off.

Main problem with VC-T is calibration. You may know that adding more adjustable variables into engine mapping makes calibration work much more tedious.