Official Lexus Future Powertrain & Product Discussion

James

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I just want to know if you get rid of all your sedans where are all the updated SUVs then? I mean they have so many holes across their lineup it's honestly ridiculous. You can say the GS/IS isn't making money and you need more SUVs well then why haven't you updated them? The SUVs have been old for years already.
 

Will1991

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@James, I don't agree with you.

Currently most of Lexus SUV's are in a normal product life cycle:
UX, introduced in 2018 as a MY2019, it's 2 years old and is rumored to have a facelift by 2021
NX, introduced in 2014 as a MY2015, it's 6 years old, received a facelift in 2017 and is rumored to be replaced by 2021
RX, introduced in 2015 as a MY2016, it's 5 years old, received a facelift in 2019 and is rumored to be replaced by 2022

They were introduced in a changing market but they're in a pretty normal product life cycle.

We can say it was bad luck for Lexus to launch them during a market change or we can say Lexus failed to properly understand were the market was going... But we can't say they aren't keeping them properly updated.

GX and LX will change drastically and they are not global products, it's a specialty product for a niche market and sales keeps proving they're up to date with the competition. X5's, GLE's, Q8's clearly aren't the direct competition. Also, Lexus keeps launching updated versions of them.
 

Gecko

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@James, I don't agree with you.

Currently most of Lexus SUV's are in a normal product life cycle:
UX, introduced in 2018 as a MY2019, it's 2 years old and is rumored to have a facelift by 2021
NX, introduced in 2014 as a MY2015, it's 6 years old, received a facelift in 2017 and is rumored to be replaced by 2021
RX, introduced in 2015 as a MY2016, it's 5 years old, received a facelift in 2019 and is rumored to be replaced by 2022

They were introduced in a changing market but they're in a pretty normal product life cycle.

We can say it was bad luck for Lexus to launch them during a market change or we can say Lexus failed to properly understand were the market was going... But we can't say they aren't keeping them properly updated.

GX and LX will change drastically and they are not global products, it's a specialty product for a niche market and sales keeps proving they're up to date with the competition. X5's, GLE's, Q8's clearly aren't the direct competition. Also, Lexus keeps launching updated versions of them.
Prior to ~2013, Lexus model redesigns generally occurred on a 5-6 year timeline, and most of the competition still follows that cadence and has only deviated in exception. So by that logic, NX is now outdated (it is), RX should be updated next year (it wont), and the LX and GX are barely acceptable (which is true). UX is the one CUV product that seems on-cycle.

Mose of Lexus' CUVs and SUVs are old and outdated, but buoyed by the overall shift from passenger cars to utility vehicles.
 

Will1991

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@Gecko, ES is the only model that has been updated consistently around 5 to 6 years, all the others have been more 6 to 8 years on average.
 

Gecko

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@Gecko, ES is the only model that has been updated consistently around 5 to 6 years, all the others have been more 6 to 8 years on average.
Sort of - and I think looking at timing is important because Lexus started significantly extending timelines for their vehicles in the 2010s so that feels more recent but doesn't mean it's a good strategy, or what they have always done. BOF SUVs were always on a slightly longer timeline. A few examples:

NX: Only one gen so far, hard to judge. 2015 - 2021 (7 model years)

1RX: 1998 - 2003 (6 model years)
2RX: 2004 - 2009 (6 model years)
3RX: 2010 - 2015 (6 model years)
4RX: 2016 - 2021 (6 model years so far)

1GX: 2003 - 2009 (7 model years)
2GX: 2010 - 2021 (11 model years so far)

1LX: 1996 - 1997 (2 model years)
2LX: 1998 - 2007 (10 model years)
3LX: 2008 - 2021 (13 model years so far)

1GS: 1991 - 1997 (7 model years)
2GS: 1998 - 2005 (8 model years)
3GS: 2006 - 2011 (7 model years)
4GS: 2012 - 2021 (10 model years)

1IS: 2001 - 2005 (5 model years)
2IS: 2006 - 2013 (8 model years)
3IS: 2014 - 2021 (8 model years so far)

1LS: 1989 - 1994 (6 model years)
2LS: 1995- 2000 (6 model years)
3LS: 2001 - 2006 (6 model years)
4LS: 2007 - 2017 (11 model years)
 

James

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@James, I don't agree with you.

Currently most of Lexus SUV's are in a normal product life cycle:
UX, introduced in 2018 as a MY2019, it's 2 years old and is rumored to have a facelift by 2021
NX, introduced in 2014 as a MY2015, it's 6 years old, received a facelift in 2017 and is rumored to be replaced by 2021
RX, introduced in 2015 as a MY2016, it's 5 years old, received a facelift in 2019 and is rumored to be replaced by 2022

They were introduced in a changing market but they're in a pretty normal product life cycle.

We can say it was bad luck for Lexus to launch them during a market change or we can say Lexus failed to properly understand were the market was going... But we can't say they aren't keeping them properly updated.

GX and LX will change drastically and they are not global products, it's a specialty product for a niche market and sales keeps proving they're up to date with the competition. X5's, GLE's, Q8's clearly aren't the direct competition. Also, Lexus keeps launching updated versions of them.
Well what is the GX/LX competition as that is exactly what I'm looking at instead of what Lexus has (X5, Q8) and I can't be the only one. Yes the UX, NX, and RX aren't that old so maybe I should put it more narrow of a window. High end Lexus models (besides LC but even that lack of LCF is stupid of them) is outdated and subpar to the competition. As much as I love Lexus how does anyone buy a GX, LX, LS over the competition besides of course on price. If anyone has I would love to know there reasons because I look at new X5 and Q8 for example and it's not even a competition. Like I don't even think their salesman worry about Lexus.
 

Will1991

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@Gecko, looking at your data I must agree with your post. Lexus really has been making their models last longer.

@James, right now I sadly (as it was for me) think Lexus don't have what you're looking for...
From what I understand, you're looking for a LF-1, clearly GX and LX aren't for you.

LX's and GX's are for this:

It's a whole different target from the X5/Q8...
 

James

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@Gecko, looking at your data I must agree with your post. Lexus really has been making their models last longer.

@James, right now I sadly (as it was for me) think Lexus don't have what you're looking for...
From what I understand, you're looking for a LF-1, clearly GX and LX aren't for you.

LX's and GX's are for this:

It's a whole different target from the X5/Q8...
Honestly I don't mind that in the GX/LX but the interior is just so damn old! Lol I just want it like new! I want options for bigger engine choices and quicker 0-60 and just you know new!
 

Will1991

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As all of we know, Toyota is fast developing battery technologies, and this showed up while looking at Mirai information:


In the last few seconds we see a BEV with CCS port, maybe is a eTNGA vehicle based on the known 6 cars?
 

Gecko

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I have a feeling the production LF-1 will take a slightly different role and be delivered to market as the all-electric RZ CUV coupe.

Why? We are now nearly 3 years after the LF-1's auto show debut and...

Still no "L_" trademarks indicating a flagship vehicle, but we have seen trademarks for all-new TX and RZ, as well as NX (next year) and RX 350h/500h (two years out).

Still no spy shots.

No further rumors or discussion.

Mass market shift to electric.

IMO, RX/LF-1 relationship was probably always going to be a tough one for an LF-1, similar to ES/GS or ES/LS. If RZ is not the LF-1 and to be a different model, RX, NX, RZ and LF-1 is a lot of two row CUVs even though price would be a differentiator. Seems like overkill.

We know "R" = midsize, C = coupe and X = CUV, so Z being something like a CUV coupe, considering the market, seems pretty realistic... LF-1 was already a two row CUV, so it seems like a natural fit for an "RX-sized" two row CUV coupe.
 

maiaramdan

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I have a feeling the production LF-1 will take a slightly different role and be delivered to market as the all-electric RZ CUV coupe.

Why? We are now nearly 3 years after the LF-1's auto show debut and...

Still no "L_" trademarks indicating a flagship vehicle, but we have seen trademarks for all-new TX and RZ, as well as NX (next year) and RX 350h/500h (two years out).

Still no spy shots.

No further rumors or discussion.

Mass market shift to electric.

IMO, RX/LF-1 relationship was probably always going to be a tough one for an LF-1, similar to ES/GS or ES/LS. If RZ is not the LF-1 and to be a different model, RX, NX, RZ and LF-1 is a lot of two row CUVs even though price would be a differentiator. Seems like overkill.

We know "R" = midsize, C = coupe and X = CUV, so Z being something like a CUV coupe, considering the market, seems pretty realistic... LF-1 was already a two row CUV, so it seems like a natural fit for an "RX-sized" two row CUV coupe.
For me I also think of 1 of the following

1) the LF-1 will turn to be a design model for the future lexus SUV / CUV lineup

2) the LF-1 will turn to be the TX

3) if the TX will take the role of the 3row so the LF-1 will turn to be the next RX

4) the LF-1 will turn to be the next GX as no one day anything about the future of the GX yet

5) the the wildest of them all is that the LF-1 will turn to be the Toyota Crown!
 

Levi

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For me I also think of 1 of the following

1) the LF-1 will turn to be a design model for the future lexus SUV / CUV lineup

2) the LF-1 will turn to be the TX

3) if the TX will take the role of the 3row so the LF-1 will turn to be the next RX

4) the LF-1 will turn to be the next GX as no one day anything about the future of the GX yet

5) the the wildest of them all is that the LF-1 will turn to be the Toyota Crown!
Never forget the worst but plausible possibility of new NX and RX having LF1 styling/design, Prado/GX gone, replaced by a global version Fortuner, Crown being Toyota version of RX, LF1 being concept just as the HPX.
 

maiaramdan

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I am afraid to write it as I take a lot of bashing lately for my extra optimism or extra pessimism

So thanks for writing it by yourself
 

Gecko

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Never forget the worst but plausible possibility of new NX and RX having LF1 styling/design, Prado/GX gone, replaced by a global version Fortuner, Crown being Toyota version of RX, LF1 being concept just as the HPX.
The only thing there that feels unrealistic to me is Fortuner variant replacing GX/Prado/4Runner because it’s so much smaller and less refined. The rest of it... yeah... I can see it.
 

maiaramdan

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@ Gecko
Here are the 4 cars in both current gen and previous gen max sizes


i made a small table from the info of wikipedia to show that it's not that small in comparing it with the other 3

for my view i think from this new Tundra leakage that

TUNDRA / SEQOUIA as well as TACOMA / 4RUNNER will take the role of the so called rugged view of FJ in 2 categories
LX will take the role of the so called Range Rover in frame
LC300 will be a sporty LX something like but not the relation between the Cayenne and Cayenne sport or the Q7 & Q8 but in full size leaving the mid size for the Hi-LUX & FORTUNER / PRADO to be as the same relation between the Q7 & Q8

that will leave us will the GX to be the TOYOTA CROWN new twin as a real 5 seater FR unibody so called SUV coupe leaving the 7 seater unibody FR for the TX in LEXUS lineup and may get a twin within TOYOTA lineup

the NX won't increase by much to leave space for the RX
 

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