Official Lexus Future Powertrain & Product Discussion

mediumhot

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I had a brief run in automotive industry as interior bits and pieces designer (trimmings to be precise) and let me tell you that it has nothing to do with expressing your creativity. If you are a designer who thrives on rhythm flow to get into the zone and make killer delivery, automotive design industry is not for you. Besides many technical constraints you are presented in order to solve something there is always that unpredictive factor - management higher up guys. You would think they are the ones with most common sense due to experience in the industry but the truth is they are just scared, they are what they are because they have sucked up into "company culture" so bad they simply can't deliver outside the box/culture. It's a false comfort zone they perceive as something that has brought the success to the company so they better not fiddle with it cause it could go bad. And then it all goes to ruins. Yes I was in Mitsubishi long before it went to ruins but I wasn't surprised. When I was there Mitsubishi has already dropped the ball on automotive design compared to what they did in '90s so I give them a pass on that but I've seen driving technologies being developed and dropped that no premium manufacturer offers even today. They didn't even try to license it to big boys or anyone else, they just dropped it.
 

mediumhot

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@mediumhot , could you elaborate a bit more on driving technologies?
Yeah, one thing I've witnessed were advancements in Active Yaw Control or torque vectoring. What you saw in Evo was maybe a one third of capability or even less, I don't know if that technology ended up in Dakar or somewhere but it was tested on a road car and many were stoked about it. It was visceral. Other thing that I've only heard about as rumors were electric turbos and twin scroll turbos, that was 15 years ago btw. Also quite an interesting story about Twin Clutch SST, it was manufactured and codevelopd by Getrag but the in-house team that worked on the firmware has worked around the clock for years to make it right, those guys were absolute freaks and winners. I heard they all got laid off and were picked up by few different companies, that's also what happened to most of the rally and sport crew as well. They were the big part why Mitsubishi was a world leader in AWD technologies as well as turbochargers and I'm quite confident they could have taken that title for dual clutch transmissions as well if the whole company didn't crumble.

Back in the day I really fantasied about Toyota somehow approaching Mitsu to reskin Evo X for some Lexus entry sports coupe with Toyota engine, I even have witnesses to my fantasies :) But back then press would simply devour Toyota/Lexus for doing so. Today decade and a half later no one gives a crap about that. Weird times.
 

spwolf

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I give Lexus until end of 2021 to meet all my targets (on new & future product on deck at that very time) or will just move on altogether and not look back as I did with Jaguar and Infiniti.
I wonder if LF-1 will tickle your fancy.

I moved on to Audi A7 since I could not find appropriate Lexus in my market, and I cant say I am too happy with the move right now.
 

yiantony

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Their sales figures have nothing to do with GS, F, or LED turn signals. They don't have enough crossovers and are caught unprepared as competitors fill every size segment of crossover possible.
It doesn't have a direct impact but it's a sign of the company saving cost at everywhere possible. All kinds of things like these slowly turn away potential buyers. They don't invest in new models, don't invest in building/upgrading better infotainment system, don't even invest in Led turn signals. This might not be a good example but people are not going to buy a flip phone after using iPhone or Android, no matter how good this flip phone looks or works.
 

Gecko

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How will coronavirus and a global recession impact Lexus going forward?

Knowing how sensitive and conservative Japanese culture is, and seeing that Toyota's commitment to/investment in Lexus has seemed tepid for many years now, I am worried that some of the great new products we all hoped for and heard about could be pushed further off into the future. Many people feel that the tsunami and earthquakes of 2011 were a large factor in Lexus' strategy shift and resulting struggles.

If the market remains soft, will Lexus pull back further than it already has? While I know that decisions about product are made years in advance, many of Lexus recent product decisions already show great restraint - perhaps too much so - and I'm worried about how leadership might react to what is happening now.

Thoughts?
 

ssun30

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Depends on whether the recovery is 'V-shaped' or more like the Great Depression. They were betting too heavily on China and while the media tries to downplay the short-term contraction and predict double-digit growth in second half, the reality on the ground is millions of job losses, factories reopening but not producing anything, huge wage cuts, and nobody willing to spend money. I expect similar around the world. Maybe India emerges as the next big economic center but who knows.

'Experts' are counting on 5G infrastructure investment and increase in online content consumption. But you can't build the economy on hollow ground, you can't build an economy on people watching internet shows and playing video games.
 
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Will1991

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This time around is different, since I'm not seeing Lexus spending R&D money on older engines, here in Europe we're around 2 years away of being unable to sell older generation cars due to emissions legislation (Euro 6 Step-E), this being current CT/IS/NX which are a big part of European sales.

Even if they managed to get this older platforms to comply with them, they will be taking a big hit on average fleet emissions, so BEV/PHEV's will need to come...

Also, besides this both older models (CT/IS/NX) and the remaining non-global line up, (LX/GX for example), they will need to launch new models to be able to improve efficiencies and profit margins with TNGA platform...
 

ssun30

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The good thing is Toyota is the most disasters-proof car manufacturer in the world period. Unlike its competitors that are bleeding money even in good times, they have been preparing for this moment.

Unfortunately under the 'Toyota first' strategy it's uncertain whether the parent company is willing to invest heavily to 'bail out' Lexus, or just let it live or die on its own.

As far as powertrain is concerned. The investment has already been made on Gen.2 DF engines as far back as 2016. As the single most important component of any automobile, powertrains have very long lead times on development (over a decade, powertrain engineer is a very stable job).
 
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krew

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New Toyota USA CEO Ted Ogawa had some thoughts on the Lexus brand in a new Automotive News interview:

Ogawa was working in the Lexus division when the 2010 unintended-acceleration crisis struck the company. He still has a fondness for Toyota’s luxury brand and wants to see it improve.
“I have no worries about the Toyota lineup, but in the case of Lexus, the [product] cadence is an issue,” Ogawa said. “So, for this year, the LC convertible is new. Profitwise, [dealers] may be OK, but in this sense, the Lexus dealer body wants to see more product sooner.”

Product launches have been far and few between for Lexus in the last couple years, and vehicle lineups are essentially frozen for the foreseeable future with COVID-19.
How are vehicle launches going...
Continue reading...


 

ssun30

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Since the introduction of the first TNGA vehicle in 2015, the parent company has:
>>redesigned 90%+ of its car lineup
>>redesigned 90%+ of its crossover lineup
>>not updated its BOF truck/SUV lineup
>>cancelled one major model (Avensis) but effectively replaced with a new model
>>cancelled one local model without replacement
>>introduced two new crossovers
>>introduced two sports cars
>>introduced 3 PHVs, 2 BEVs, and 1 FCEV.
>>almost all new updated models achieved or beat sales goals
>>three programs delayed, zero cancelled
>>three models banned for sale in major markets due to failure to comply with emissions regulations

Meanwhile the 'luxury' branch has:
>>redesigned one third of its car lineup
>>not redesigned any of its crossover
>>cancelled one major model without replacement
>>introduced one new car model and one new crossover model based on new platform
>>introduced one and a half sports cars
>>introduced two new products based on obsolete platforms its parent company is going to replace in two years
>>introduced 1 BEV
>>half of the new models outperformed sales targets, the other half fell well short
>>at least three programs delayed and two programs cancelled
>>one third of the models banned for sale due to failure to comply with emissions in a major market

Feel free to add any bullet point I missed.
 
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JC1

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Since the introduction of the first TNGA vehicle in 2015, the parent company has:
>>redesigned 90%+ of its car lineup
>>redesigned 90%+ of its crossover lineup
>>not updated its BOF truck/SUV lineup
>>cancelled one major model (Avensis) but effectively replaced with a new model
>>cancelled one local model without replacement
>>introduced two new crossovers
>>introduced two sports cars
>>introduced 3 PHVs, 2 BEVs, and 1 FCEV.
>>almost all new updated models achieved or beat sales goals
>>three programs delayed, zero cancelled
>>three models banned for sale in major markets due to failure to comply with emissions regulations

Meanwhile the 'luxury' branch has:
>>redesigned one third of its car lineup
>>not redesigned any of its crossover
>>cancelled one major model without replacement
>>introduced one new car model and one new crossover model based on new platform
>>introduced one and a half sports cars
>>introduced two new products based on obsolete platforms its parent company is going to replace in two years
>>introduced 1 BEV
>>half of the new models outperformed sales targets, the other half fell well short
>>at least three programs delayed and two programs cancelled
>>one third of the models banned for sale due to failure to comply with emissions in a major market

Feel free to add any bullet point I missed.
Don't forget ...introduced one luxury Yacht! LOL
To me, the money and R&D into building a yacht should of been focused and put towards their cars/SUVs. This boggles my mind why Lexus is willing to spend so much money towards a very small market (yachts) but won't spend the money on updating their Lexus lineup...esp the IS, GS, GX and LX.
 

Levi

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The Yacht can come after that, or the Yacht should be followed by a flood of redesigned cars, which did not happen.
 

Rydo

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You know that things are bad once execs start basically pointing out the same things us commoners are saying on here.

Where is production Limitless? Where is new NX? Where is new CT, a vehicle that Lexus clearly can bring into the 2020s as apparent in the LF30 concept but for some strange reason points the gun on themselves and even more European sales by not bothering. Audi A1 proves LF-SA would be a Euro hit too.
 

Gecko

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Since the introduction of the first TNGA vehicle in 2015, the parent company has:
>>redesigned 90%+ of its car lineup
>>redesigned 90%+ of its crossover lineup
>>not updated its BOF truck/SUV lineup
>>cancelled one major model (Avensis) but effectively replaced with a new model
>>cancelled one local model without replacement
>>introduced two new crossovers
>>introduced two sports cars
>>introduced 3 PHVs, 2 BEVs, and 1 FCEV.
>>almost all new updated models achieved or beat sales goals
>>three programs delayed, zero cancelled
>>three models banned for sale in major markets due to failure to comply with emissions regulations

Meanwhile the 'luxury' branch has:
>>redesigned one third of its car lineup
>>not redesigned any of its crossover
>>cancelled one major model without replacement
>>introduced one new car model and one new crossover model based on new platform
>>introduced one and a half sports cars
>>introduced two new products based on obsolete platforms its parent company is going to replace in two years
>>introduced 1 BEV
>>half of the new models outperformed sales targets, the other half fell well short
>>at least three programs delayed and two programs cancelled
>>one third of the models banned for sale due to failure to comply with emissions in a major market

Feel free to add any bullet point I missed.
Your post does a great job of illustrating why I am so confused about all of this. Looking at the above, it's like Toyota and Lexus are two completely different companies. I just don't understand the stark contrast in product strategy and execution.

My only theory is that Toyoda wanted to get the core business "right" before moving onto correct the issues at Lexus, so I'm optimistic that the tides may turn in Lexus' favor during this decade.
 

James

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Your post does a great job of illustrating why I am so confused about all of this. Looking at the above, it's like Toyota and Lexus are two completely different companies. I just don't understand the stark contrast in product strategy and execution.

My only theory is that Toyoda wanted to get the core business "right" before moving onto correct the issues at Lexus, so I'm optimistic that the tides may turn in Lexus' favor during this decade.
Can we just say 2010-2019 was the lost decade of Lexus lol besides the LC of course cause that’s a beauty rt there!
 

Gecko

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Does the Toyota USA CEO have any jurisdiction over Lexus, or is he just talking broadly?

I ask because I forget what the reporting structure for executives looks like these days.
 
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COVID-19 is making the products “issues” a hold or freeze in the car brand as the most likely people complaint a lot. But Lexus can work with their 2021 models and future lineup products right now to start in the quick decades like Genesis want to eat theirs competitors candies but Lexus have the talent to this oldest-newest luxury brand fight games we know they have power to do it. Let’s start (IS) series redesign with the new safety, features, tech and performance are working right now to attract more buyers to the people needs in the products. Let’s start the (NX) redesign with a optional “RWD” Powertrain with the new platform. Let’s start the upcoming products 2021 models is will be on market next year working from now. In the other hand take your time quietly with the coolest and fun surprises is coming to the products!

who agree with this? Comment below⬇
 

James

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COVID-19 is making the products “issues” a hold or freeze in the car brand as the most likely people complaint a lot. But Lexus can work with their 2021 models and future lineup products right now to start in the quick decades like Genesis want to eat theirs competitors candies but Lexus have the talent to this oldest-newest luxury brand fight games we know they have power to do it. Let’s start (IS) series redesign with the new safety, features, tech and performance are working right now to attract more buyers to the people needs in the products. Let’s start the (NX) redesign with a optional “RWD” Powertrain with the new platform. Let’s start the upcoming products 2021 models is will be on market next year working from now. In the other hand take your time quietly with the coolest and fun surprises is coming to the products!

who agree with this? Comment below⬇
Lexus needs a huge 2021 I agree with you. I am a dead loyal to Lexus as my picture of two Lexus cars show but when you look at the model lineup and compare it to other brands beside the LC they are behind or on par with competition at best. This virus can give them "a pass" in sales (like all companies seem to be using right now!) but they need new products and they need them now. I know we all have had a lot of conversations on this topic (some quite spirited :) ) but I think we can all agree that the Lexus product line is too old to truly competitive. I bought my GS in 2017 (I agree with what mikeavelli said in the GS thread and I also always wanted a GS and in 17 there was no way I would have purchased anything else because I assumed the GS would be dead soon after) and I knew at the time that the 0-60 times and interior were behind at least some of the competitors but it was the idea of having a GS that made me get it. But now that I have it (and I love it by the way only wish I got the full F!) I want more from the next car. New technologies, improved interior, more HP (of course!), and just a new body style. I'll be sad if or when the GS dies but for my sake of staying with Lexus and others as well, we just need new models all over the lineup. Some models need brand new designs, some need V-8 engines back (LS), and some need a bloody F model already (LC for the love of God how hard is it!!). I hope what Gecko said about maybe they did everything with Toyota first and now are working on Lexus (backwards in my opinion) is true, otherwise what has Lexus become? If we are in the truly in the world where Lexus is compared to the Genesis now and not the big 3 of the Germans, Lexus effed up. Yes having a large consumer base and having more inexpensive models is where you make the majority of your money but you need to have excitement at the top of your model line. And to be honest how exciting truly is an LS with no V8 option at all? Don't get me wrong absolutely beautiful car that I would totally own, but to not even have a full V-8 option for your flagship car? Hoping to the new Lexus President gets this changed quickly and makes the correct changes for our model lineup.

On a side note I am binge watching the 24 series in our lovely stay at home from work crap right now, and damn it is nice seeing Lexus cars in a feature role (I think Toyota was sponsor but all the guys seem to be mostly driving Lexus cars!). For their marketing state it would be nice to have something else like that. Black Panther and the LC was great but didn't seem to have the same effect as say Iron Man and his R8 did.
 
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