Official Lexus Future Powertrain & Product Discussion

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The image shows the use of D-4D instead of D-4S (to save cost). The missing port injectors may account for some of the lost specific power and efficiency compared to 4-cylinder variants? I wonder how it suppresses carbon build-up without the self-cleaning function.



See Shizhi's picture. 30% more torque than the 1.3L 1NR-FKE it replaces. But that's a puny little engine so the comparison is not very fair.

EDIT: I just checked the 1NR-FKE's torque curve and it produces 105N.m at 2,000rpm and 110N.m at 2600rpm. Multiply that by 30% and you get 137N.m@2,000 and 143N.m@2600. So it may have more torque at 2,000 rpm than the last-gen 1.5L at its peak (136N.m at 4,400).
I am confused. I thought D-4D had to do with diesel applications and had nothing to do with D-4S?
 

Joaquin Ruhi

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Since when does the UR engine family have anything to do with Ford? Some trolls edited this wiki trying to spread misleading info.
Definitely a troll. I just read the "footnote source" after the sentence making that outrageous and baseless claim in Wikipedia (a 2006 Automotive Design & Production article by well-respected automotive journalist Gary Vasilach) and it makes no reference whatsoever to Ford origins for the UR V8. I tried to go into the Wikipedia article to remove that B.S., but I couldn't find the "link" to edit the article's introductory paragraph where that outlandish claim appears.
 

carguy420

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Joaquin Ruhi

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Automotive News has published its full interview with new Toyota North America CEO Ted Ogawa after posting an except last month, and it’s a fascinating read from start to finish. Of course, we will focus on the Lexus-specific information:

Ogawa: I have no worries about the Toyota lineup, but in the case of Lexus, the cadence is an issue. So for this year, the LC convertible is new. Profitwise, it may be OK, but in this sense, the Lexus dealer body wants to see more product sooner.
AN: How will you change that within Lexus?
Ogawa: We need to change the cadence and the product and the powertrain. Cadence is a planning concept, so that’s a No. 1 priority. And then product, next to the powertrain, right now is a second order.

On a day when Toyota announces two all-new vehicles (the...
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CT200h

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Accurate and well written with good sources. It’s a shame , they really dropped the ball.
Lexus version of sequoia , yeah sounds good as it will be the all new platform , could be a while. New entertainment with no touchpad, mid size hi tech SUV . EV to compete with Audi, Tesla , Jaguar etc. -3-4-5 years ....... What do we do til then ?
 
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CRSKTN

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Lexus’s plans include long-awaited updates to existing SUVs and at least one all-new mid-size SUV, he said. “The best way to put it would be a luxury seven- or eight-passenger people-mover.”
Those assurances from top Toyota officials came during an October meeting in Washington, where dealers said the vehicle highest on their wish list is an 18-foot long SUV akin to General Motors Co.’s GMC Yukon Denali XL. “That is one of our primary asks and one that they’re looking at,” LaRochelle said.
Interesting, would a modernized LX fulfill this? That's a foot and a half longer than the LX. Might be a different vehicle...

The above might be two different vehicles being described, but are there any good examples of what qualifies as a mid-size SUV that is somehow long enough to comfortably seat that many?
 

krew

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2019 was a down year for Lexus in the USA, with stalling sales and an aging SUV lineup unable to keep pace with competitors — from Chester Dawson at Bloomberg:

Lexus’s 30th anniversary brake-tap is a reflection of its aging vehicle lineup, increased competition and an inability to keep pace with American buyers’ growing demand for larger sport utility vehicles. Two of its SUVs haven’t undergone a full model change in a decade, and the addition of a cramped three-row option to its popular RX model in late 2017 hasn’t won over as many cross-shoppers as hoped.
“Lexus has lost some of its luster,” said Jake Fisher, senior director of auto testing at Consumer Reports, who points to gains by rivals such as Hyundai Motors Co.’s Genesis brand. “Genesis is taking that baton. They...
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D

DDas

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I think as Lexus fans, it was becoming hard to deny this. I've mentioned this before, but Lexus began to shine in 2012-2013 when they introduced a new identity with their spindle grille and sportier approach. The problem, though, was that they distanced themselves too much from their heritage. I personally LOVE the new LS, but I do have to agree with people when they say it looks too sporty. It went from a luxurious "limousine" to a...kind of...larger IS. The interior is very beautiful, but it's something that should have gone in a new GS (if we had one). I think it should be more luxurious looking and just stunning like the SClass. I know some of y'all from Instagram, and I don't know if I am the only one who has noticed this, but recently a lot of people are trading in their Lexus models for Mercedes, Audi, etc. because these brands - and I hate admitting this - offer sportier versions but also have that super luxurious, high-end variants that Lexus just seems to fail to do, and I hate seeing people trade-in these great cars to the competition. Also, I am sorry, but Lexus base models are just...bland/boring from the simplest of things like non-LED turn signals in a base model (I know that's a stretch, but in today's world, non-LED lights make a car look A) non-luxurious and B) like it came from 2010). Just like the article states, I have also seen people say things about Genesis becoming the new Lexus, and that is the most heart wrenching thing to hear. I do NOT want to see this brand become an Infiniti or an Acura - outshined and forgotten by rising brands (does anyone even remember when Acura was actually so desirable? Because it truly once was). Those brands have struggled for YEARS and still can't cure their problems. Lexus really needs to speed stuff up. I am lowkey starting to dislike Toyota on account that all priority is going to them and not the Lexus brand like the ugly Mirai over the GS project. Akio Toyoda should not be able to kill off the GS just because he was never a fan of it because a lot of enthusiasts (not just Lexus ones) love it (Besides, it sold decently. It's just so dated now that it looks like it doesn't sell). I hope and pray that 2020 is the year of the Lexus comeback: going back to the luxurious roots while keeping the new sportier image (let's even combine the slogans - The Pursuit of the Amazing or something), amping up the F brand more, stop letting models go a decade without change, making interiors high-end looking (the new ES is gorgeous but the interior looks like 2010 RX's), and providing to what customers and enthusiasts are asking for! Why did it take so long for an RXL? And an SC replacement? Why is GS dying? Where's our first F Crossover? Why can Mercedes, BMW, and Audi produce all these different types of vehicles like mice producing offsprings while Lexus takes as long as an elephant carrying a baby to produce something new?

EDIT: Let me add one more thing: Lexus needs to quit it with this stupid ad campaign of "Lexus Curiosity." I have not talked to a single person that even remotely understands it. Maybe, they need to stop putting all their focus in something that is providing no outcome whatsoever and put it into producing new vehicles.

Okay, sorry for my rant. I am just so tired of seeing Lexus, a brand people used to add to rap songs, seem to fade away.
 

Will1991

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But... How can we get our opinion to top Lexus management when some models are production constraint and not lack of sales?

Our biggest enemy is Lexus best thing for investors, their sales are growing YoY worldwide.

Look to China, where they’re increasing MSRP...

I do agree with all of you, Lexus needs more special cars, not hoverboards or boats...
 

zeusus

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Oh look, a thread about lackluster SUV sales turning into another thread where people just complain about every aspect of Lexus. Really?

Only the "hate Lexus press" can turn a consistently 3rd place annual position into a story of pure doom.

Every time I see the monthly Lexus sales figures (thank you @krew for compiling it for us to view), SUVs seem to be doing just fine. We're at a period where Lexus is growing like crazy in foreign markets. Its not unreasonable to try and manage the hyper growth overseas while maintaining supply and relevancy here in the US. Based on what is selling well (niche/luxury sales down, value sales up), Lexus should be doing the exact opposite of what the enthusiasts want, which is give up hardcore sporty and ultra luxury for midsize, value-driven, hybrids.

I do agree with all of you, Lexus needs more special cars, not hoverboards or boats...
The Lexus hoverboard was pure marketing, it was never in production. Not sure why people keep talking about it like it was taking from r&d/production budgets and preventing Lexus from making "special cars" ? I guess its easier to have something to blame. It was one of the best marketing exercises into the millennial attention span I've ever seen.

This Lexus hoverboard video is at 12M views
Which is the second most viewed Lexus originated marketing video on all of youtube (1st was the quarterback commercial at 18M views).
If we were to compare marketing views/success ratio the same we do with cars sales, then this would be the second most successful Lexus online marketing campaign ever done. How does that get any form of criticism at all? It would be like saying the RX was a failure and Lexus should've never spent money developing the RX, instead they should be creating more "special cars".

 
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Lexus Cohen

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I think as Lexus fans, it was becoming hard to deny this. I've mentioned this before, but Lexus began to shine in 2012-2013 when they introduced a new identity with their spindle grille and sportier approach. The problem, though, was that they distanced themselves too much from their heritage. I personally LOVE the new LS, but I do have to agree with people when they say it looks too sporty. It went from a luxurious "limousine" to a...kind of...larger IS. The interior is very beautiful, but it's something that should have gone in a new GS (if we had one). I think it should be more luxurious looking and just stunning like the SClass. I know some of y'all from Instagram, and I don't know if I am the only one who has noticed this, but recently a lot of people are trading in their Lexus models for Mercedes, Audi, etc. because these brands - and I hate admitting this - offer sportier versions but also have that super luxurious, high-end variants that Lexus just seems to fail to do, and I hate seeing people trade-in these great cars to the competition. Also, I am sorry, but Lexus base models are just...bland/boring from the simplest of things like non-LED turn signals in a base model (I know that's a stretch, but in today's world, non-LED lights make a car look A) non-luxurious and B) like it came from 2010). Just like the article states, I have also seen people say things about Genesis becoming the new Lexus, and that is the most heart wrenching thing to hear. I do NOT want to see this brand become an Infiniti or an Acura - outshined and forgotten by rising brands (does anyone even remember when Acura was actually so desirable? Because it truly once was). Those brands have struggled for YEARS and still can't cure their problems. Lexus really needs to speed stuff up. I am lowkey starting to dislike Toyota on account that all priority is going to them and not the Lexus brand like the ugly Mirai over the GS project. Akio Toyoda should not be able to kill off the GS just because he was never a fan of it because a lot of enthusiasts (not just Lexus ones) love it (Besides, it sold decently. It's just so dated now that it looks like it doesn't sell). I hope and pray that 2020 is the year of the Lexus comeback: going back to the luxurious roots while keeping the new sportier image (let's even combine the slogans - The Pursuit of the Amazing or something), amping up the F brand more, stop letting models go a decade without change, making interiors high-end looking (the new ES is gorgeous but the interior looks like 2010 RX's), and providing to what customers and enthusiasts are asking for! Why did it take so long for an RXL? And an SC replacement? Why is GS dying? Where's our first F Crossover? Why can Mercedes, BMW, and Audi produce all these different types of vehicles like mice producing offsprings while Lexus takes as long as an elephant carrying a baby to produce something new?

EDIT: Let me add one more thing: Lexus needs to quit it with this stupid ad campaign of "Lexus Curiosity." I have not talked to a single person that even remotely understands it. Maybe, they need to stop putting all their focus in something that is providing no outcome whatsoever and put it into producing new vehicles.

Okay, sorry for my rant. I am just so tired of seeing Lexus, a brand people used to add to rap songs, seem to fade away.
Thank you! Well said.
 

mordecai

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They really need to freshen up their aging lineup. Seriously poor product planning. The last all new product is the UX, which to me is quite an amateur product designed by a novice. At least it’s selling relatively well. But what CUV with 4 wheels isn’t? 🤷‍♂️

I’ve just realized that the Detroit show is now in June instead of January. Lexus has used Detroit to make their new product announcements or new LF concepts. The next big auto show is Geneva in early March. I wonder if they will finally show the LF-1 production model then. They stand to lose more brand mindshare if they don’t pick up their pace.
 

James

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They really need to freshen up their aging lineup. Seriously poor product planning. The last all new product is the UX, which to me is quite an amateur product designed by a novice. At least it’s selling relatively well. But what CUV with 4 wheels isn’t? 🤷‍♂️

I’ve just realized that the Detroit show is now in June instead of January. Lexus has used Detroit to make their new product announcements or new LF concepts. The next big auto show is Geneva in early March. I wonder if they will finally show the LF-1 production model then. They stand to lose more brand mindshare if they don’t pick up their pace.
Wait Detroit is in June? What happened? I was hoping for some new Lexus news this month...
 

Joaquin Ruhi

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Wait Detroit is in June? What happened? I was hoping for some new Lexus news this month...
In a bid to reverse its downhill slide and the exodus of import luxury brands, the permanent change from January to June of the Detroit Auto Show as of this year was announced back in July 2018. They also tout the better summer weather and the ability to add outdoor displays and on-road vehicle demonstrations as plusses that will help the show.

The first semi-major auto show this year is actually Chicago (press day February 7), followed by Geneva in early March. As of this writing, the Chicago press conference schedule isn't up yet, but Lexus has rarely, if ever, debuted anything significant there.
 

Will1991

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@Joaquin Ruhi , I believe we won´t get anything major for Geneva besides (maybe) pricing and some specifications adjustments for UX300e (EU version) as ES and UX are selling very well...

As a market, I sadly believe a second gen CT is very difficult to really exist when we've a clear indication for SUV oriented market and China/USA are very happy with UX as a replacement.

A new version of the IS should be presented in the USA, where it sold the best...

LS just got a slight improvement for MY2020...

A new NX has never been spied so it should take a while as well...
 

Gecko

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Thanks! According to some people I'm here to "just complain about every aspect of Lexus" when in reality, I am just trying to speak the truth. It's obvious this brand has disappointed in recent years. Something needs to be done before this brand falls way too far behind.
There is a difference between being blind and being constructively critical - I see you as the latter. The last decade has been very rough for Lexus, and many of us have rung the alarm or aired our grievances at different points. Lexus is expanding into new markets worldwide, which is helping to drive the appearance that the brand is "doing ok." The fact remains that almost all of their product is fundamentally inferior to Mercedes, BMW and Audi - something that will catch up to the brand once the newness wears off in China and other growth markets.

In the meantime, I guess some people can keep buying 15 year old Toyota hardware and say it's good stuff because it's showing positive growth numbers in markets where it didn't exist before.

There is no way you can look at IS, ES, GS, LS, RC, UX, NX, RX, GX or LX and say they are somehow "best in class" or an "amazing" experience as Lexus claims to offer. If you think so, you need to do yourself a favor, get out and drive the competition. Hell, reading an internet spec sheet is good enough for a reality check that Lexus is sorely, sorely behind the competition.

I loved this brand as much as anyone, but there does come a point of reckoning and where you just can't ignore the facts anymore.
 

Joaquin Ruhi

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@Joaquin Ruhi , I believe we won´t get anything major for Geneva besides (maybe) pricing and some specifications adjustments for UX300e (EU version) as ES and UX are selling very well...
My first reaction was to totally agree with you, but then I double-checked my constantly-updated tally of @Carmaker1 future Lexus and Toyota predictions. As of now, the 4th-gen Lexus IS is seemingly scheduled to enter production on July 2020 for the 2021 model year. If this hasn't changed, we could see 4IS make its world debut at Geneva 2019, following on the 2IS world premiere there in 2005.

As a market, I sadly believe a second gen CT is very difficult to really exist when we've a clear indication for SUV oriented market and China/USA are very happy with UX as a replacement.
I totally agree. I think that CT will be a one-generation wonder just like HS was. Let me put it another way: I'd be royally pissed if resources and manpower sorely needed for updating all of Lexus' SUV and crossover lineup bar UX, doing something about IS and updating the flagship cars (all higher priorities) were instead diverted towards developing a hardly-necessary 2CT.

A new version of the IS should be presented in the USA, where it sold the best...
While 3IS was introduced at the 2013 Detroit Auto Show, IS-related launches have happened all over the world (2IS in Geneva, 3IS refresh in Beijing).

A new NX has never been spied so it should take a while as well...
Sadly, this seems to be one of the delayed Lexus SUVs and crossovers. Per @Carmaker1 , 2NX was originally on roughly the same timetable as 4IS I cited in my first reply above, but has now been pushed back a year, until the 2021 calendar year / 2022 model year. Possible delays in setting up Canadian NX production (once predicted for September 2019 but, in fact, officially confirmed for early 2022) may be a factor.
 
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