Official Lexus Future Powertrain & Product Discussion

[ssun30]

Today, Toyota Global Newsroom released a load of very exciting information about its upcoming TNGA powertrain. They provided the first data of the workhorse 2.0L Dynamic Force engine, the CVT transmission and a 6-speed manual accompanying it, an updated "high power" hybrid system, and a long overdue torque vectoring AWD:

https://newsroom.toyota.co.jp/en/powertrain2018/feature/

What's even more interesting is an image showing the pieces still missing from the "9 models and 17 variants of engines and 6 models and 10 variations of hybrid systems" which gives us a LOT of insight into what to expect for the next three years:

But before figuring out those missing pieces, let's recap what they have launched so far:

1) THS-II (1.8L), the hybrid powertrain used by the Prius/Prius Prime/C-HR Hybrid, in two variations, plug-in and non plug-in. It uses a 2ZR-FXE I4 engine carried over from previous generation Prius, but with the ESTEC upgrade package to reach a 40% thermal efficiency. It also introduced a much more compact parallel (previously serial) motor transaxle that will become a standard design on all future transverse hybrid systems.

2) THS-II Multistage, the hybrid powertrain used by Lexus LC500h/LS500h. It uses a 2GR-FKS V6 engine that still has the base design of the 2GR-FSE, but updated with VVT-iW. The most innovative change about it is obviously the inclusion of a 4-speed automatic transmission to provide more torque amplification at lower gears, and lower cruising rpm/higher top speed at higher gears. The design is obviously performance-oriented, allowing the LC500h to catch a LC500 in short sprints before the big V8 gets into the power band. Basically, it offers 'a feel of a 5.0L V8 engine' in most daily driving scenarios, although that can be debated.

3) A25A-FKS/A25A-FXS and THS-II (2.5L). The first member of the Dynamic Force family, this engine is the culmination of a decade of research by TMC. It is obviously designed with efficiency in mind, reaching a world record 40%(gas-only)/41%(hybrid) thermal efficiency. But more impressively, it does so while not sacrificing power and response: the engine still makes 60kW(80hp)/L and has higher torque at any rpm than the outgoing AR series.

4) V35A-FTS. Currently the flagship engine for Lexus. Same philosophy as the A25A-FKS but a slightly less undersquare design to fit within the 3.5L limit for tax reasons. It also incorporates a very compact twin-turbocharging system that doesn't require a 'Hot-V' configuration used by the Germans. It certainly did not impress the enthusiasts compared to the roaring 2UR-FSE, but it delivers 416hp at a very high efficiency. Its turbocharged nature also works in better cohesion with Aisin's tall ratio 10-speed automatic than the naturally aspirated V8.

5) Today, the A20A-FKS/A20A-FXS and THS-II (2.0L) engine is launched. It will be the main workhorse engine for most Toyota models out of North America, and will also be used on Lexus UX and 7ES. It's basically a scaled-down A25A with the only difference being a slightly higher specific output of 63kW(84hp)/L.

 

[ssun30]

OK, now let's start from the bottom because we want to leave the best for the last. We can be confident that in the image above, the engines are ranked by their displacement. Note that Kei car engine (660cc) won't be in this lineup since it belongs to Daihatsu's DNGA. Also these engines will likely have exactly the same tech package, hence A25'A'/V35'A'. The 'B' versions that includes more exotic technologies such as HCCI and Variable Compression should be post-2021.

Below the A20A there are two engines that obviously need to be introduced for TMC's small cars to replace the KR/NR/ZR series. The first one is obviously a 1.0L Inline 3, it will basically an updated 1KR-FE, although it's unknown how much tech package it is going to receive. The KR already has ESTEC package built-in, but D-4S and Dual VVT-i (with VVT-iW on intake valves) are both somewhat expensive for a very low-end application. Expect the same 40% thermal efficiency and 50-60 kW of power.

The second one can either be a 1.0L turbocharged I3, or a 1.5L naturally aspirated I4, although I'm leaning towards the latter, since Toyota once said they won't make a turbocharged engine for the Prius until they can achieve 45+% thermal efficiency. Since this lineup includes engines that are already production-ready or are in production-engineering phase (i.e. no experimental concepts/lab prototypes), a 1.5L NA is much more likely. It will have the full Dynamic Force package since its competitors will be pretty advanced as well. Expect 75kW(100hp) for the hybrid variant and 90kW(120hp) for the gas-only variant.

The one between the A20A and A25A is almost certainly the A20A-FTS. I think in this lineup, turbocharging accounts for a separate model instead of a variant, since the application and design could be very different from the NA version. In this entire lineup, the A20A-FTS is THE MOST important engine for Lexus because a 2.0T is the golden standard for every compact-to-full size vehicle regardless of bodystyle. It's the winning formula in every market and used by every manufacturer in existence. The 8AR-FTS we have right now is neither powerful nor responsive, and the efficiency (36%) is mediocre at best. It needs at least 200kW(270hp) to be competitive against underrated German competitors but it would probably require premium fuel to reach that level of specific output (Nissan can do it on regular because it has variable compression). For Toyota models, 180kW(240hp) on regular is sufficient.

Between the naturally aspirated A25A and V35A-FTS there is one engine what this forum calls the 'main workhorse engine' (though it kind of isn't), a long overdue replacement for the now over-a-decade-old GR series. Two possibilities exist: the preferred solution is the six cylinder V30A-FTS while the less desirable (but financially more reasonable for Toyota) solution is the four cylinder A25A-FTS. Either design could fit perfectly in the 225-270kW(300-370hp) range, the former benefiting from a bigger displacement and the latter capable of using twin-scroll turbochargers. Regardless of the final choice, this engine is crucial for Lexus' performance models.

But the surprise here? Just as we spread doomsday arguments like Lexus doesn't want V8, we see not one, but two bigger engines sitting above the V35A-FTS! Two of them! This is entirely left to your imagination, guys, because two is a LOT of possibilities for a very small market! So we won't have a naturally aspirated V8 with all these talks about downsizing, or will we? Is Lexus listening to the enthusiasts and decides to keep the good old big V8 and update it with more tech? We certainly will have a V8TT after all, but at what displacement and what level of power?

 

[ssun30]

Now onto the hybrids. Not a lot of needs to be said here.

The smallest one is obviously THS-II (1.5L). A 100kW 'low power' alternative to the 130kW/180hp class THS-II (2.0L). It will be used on all new small hybrid vehicles although the possibility of it replacing the 1.8L THS-II on the Prius is questionable. Toyota definitely wants a bigger upgrade for the Prius after 2021 (probably using it to introduce Mk.2 Dynamic Force 'B' engines).

The one between the 2.5L THS-II and multi-stage is a high-power transverse hybrid powertrain for the next-gen ES/RX. This will also possibly be TMC's first turbo hybrid, combining the A20A-FTS with a high-output Li-ion battery pack for about 240kW.

It's interesting, though, that their hybrid plans comes to a full stop after the 3.5L Multistage. Two things we know for sure, are that Toyota's GR department is working on a very high performance hybrid drivetrain, and that Lexus is working on a hybridized V35A-FTS. If this lineup is to remain this way, does this mean those higher end hybrid system will come after 2021?

Or Toyota has a different plan, namely EV only for high-end applications?

 

[amoschen7]

Very informative!
Good to hear they’ll have to models on top of V35A.
Any news about a pure EV power train yet?

 

[krew]

This is excellent, @ssun30 -- really enjoyed reading your breakdown, very informative!

Any news about a pure EV power train yet?

No details yet on an EV powertrain.

 

[Gecko]

@ssun30, thanks so much for this wonderful analysis. Great breakdown!

I do believe we will see another V8 because ToMoCo has enough use cases to justify it - we already know the next gen Tundra and Sequoia are in development, plus there is Land Cruiser, LX, and then the same block could be used for an F V8 for LC/LS/LF-1. Perhaps an updated/detuned version could also replace the 5.0L V8 in the LC 500.

A few questions...

What is the difference between the engine code starting with an "A" or a "V"? It seems to me that naturally aspirated engines start with A and turbocharged ones start with V, but we haven't seen enough models to know for sure. What do you think?

If that's true, I think it would be V20A-FTS for the 2.0T and potentially V25A-FTS for a 2.5L TT I4, right? And then V30A-FTS if they go with a bigger/different engine compared to the 2.5L TT I4.

The most interesting ones to me are the 2.0T and V30A-FTS or V25A-FTS

Toyota has a way of leapfrogging everyone with engines when they unveil an entirely new powertrain line (think about the GR V6 in 2005), so I am expecting these engines to be very powerful indeed. It would not surprise me to see a 420-450hp V8 for Tundra, Sequoia, Land Cruiser and LX.

 

[krew]

krew

New 2.0 Liter Engine & Hybrid System Coming Soon to Lexus Vehicles

Big tech news today!

View the original article post

 

[spwolf]

Toyota announced a raft of new technologies, all of which will likely debut in Lexus UX and Toyota Corolla/Auris (Europe) this upcoming Geneva show (in 12 days or so).

What new at Toyota:
- New 2.0l petrol engine, downsized 2.5l. 169hp with all the tech like D4S, etc. Might come in new Corolla as well, since they are calling it new Toyota world engine.

The new engine realizes equal or greater power performance while realizing best-in-class fuel economy accomplished through the 2.5-liter Dynamic Force Engine and with Direct Shift-CVT. Dynamic Force Engine 2.0-liter developed as a core engine of Toyota.

- New 250h hybrid engine, again downsized from new Camry Hybrid. 178hp total power.

The new 2.0-liter system implements technologies that allow for a smaller, lighter, and more energy efficient structure. A 2.5-liter system was previously introduced in the redesigned Camry.

- New Direct Shift CVT - with starting planetary gear for better performance at lower speeds + higher ratio at higher. They claim shifts are now faster than competitor DCT.
https://newsroom.toyota.co.jp/en/powertrain2018/cvt/

- New Dynamic Torque Vectoring AWD system that can transfer power between left and right wheels, thus solving that issue with part time awds when one wheel is not touching the ground. They have a demo between old and new system, looks like old is C-HR AWD while new is new Lexus UX.

- New E-Four system with 30% more torque on rear wheels and better integration of all systems during regular driving, cornering.

- New 6sp MT with rev matching on both downshifts and upshifts.

https://newsroom.toyota.co.jp/en/powertrain2018/feature/index.html
https://newsroom.toyota.co.jp/en/corporate/21179861.html

A lot more new engines left to reveal by the end of the year as well as new AWD systems:

 

[spwolf]

Will 2.0l actually come to Lexus in USA? I think dynamic torque AWD and e-four changes certainly will, but UX will likely get that 2.5l 208hp petrol and not 2.0l.

 

[spwolf]

@ssun30 Toyota already updated 1.0l KR in upcoming Aygo facelift, and they also did another ESTEC engine in 1.5l NA category last year with Yaris so those two are not on these lists for this years changes. It seems they want only all new engines to show there for this year. They also have new 1.0l KR turbo in small cars in Japan since last year or two.

So those two small engines wont be 1.0l KR or 1.5l NR Estec engines. But something else less than 2.0l? Since new Auris is being announced there in Geneva, if there was something new there it would be announced now. So it is something else.

- As to the hybrid, it is certainly 1.5l, but it wont be more powerful than Prius hybrid of course... it is new version of Yaris Hybrid engine. Toyota also plans "simpler" hybrids likely for small suv and Aygo.

- Also look at how they have shown new 3.5l hybrid in LC/LS - as transmission not engine. Which means there will be a new 300h or 350h coming in there this year? They already announced that they will build new Highlander Hybrid 4cly engine in the US, so I would guess that it has to be stronger than 208hp from Camry. So maybe that will be their first turbo based hybrid that will be announced for upcoming Rav4 later this year? Dual-hybrid strategy for Europe, and all that.

As to the V8's @Gecko I assume one will be for Tundra and other trucks and one will be for Lexus F vehicles.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

Fascinating. So an LC F with a TTV8 + 6MT could be a thing? That would certainly put Ze Germans on notice, especially if it's priced right.

 

[CIF]

Thanks for starting this topic ssun30.

So a few things to keep in mind:

- there won't be any updated previous-gen gas engines making the master TNGA diagram Toyota has shown. TNGA engines are all new engines. So whatever engines with displacement of less than 2.0L that will debut, will be all new. The exceptions here being the THS-II 1.8L and the multi-stage THS-II systems, which both use non-TNGA gas engines. However the good thing is that engines can easily be replaced/updated on Toyota's THS systems. I fully expect the multi-stage THS-II to get the V35A engine soon, along with the 1.8L THS-II either getting a Dynamic Force gas engine, or being replaced in usage by the 2.0L THS-II Dynamic Force system.

- the new torque vectoring AWD system is not some "eLSD" system or whatever else people may be thinking of. This is not some "open diff" rehashed system. This would be like saying Toyota's KDSS is some "e" system. This new torque vectoring AWD sysytem has two physical clutches on both the front and rear shafts, which are part of a disconnect mechanism. Toyota otherwise was very vague on details so far. It may have a mechanical lock ability. It is also paired to a new mysterious AWD Integrated Management system, which Toyota also did not detail. This likely hints at some sort of terrain management features. Also in the demonstration video, based on the Rav4 rims, the 'current model' is almost certainly a Rav4, while the 'new model' isn't really important, as it could be a number of vehicles. What's important is the capability of the system. The new E-Four 4WD system is indeed what some of you are thinking of, in that it is an "eLSD open-diff" type system, as the E-Four system does not have physical clutches and physical linkages.

- I feel a significant achievement that needs more emphasis is the overall fuel economy numbers (along with the power numbers) that Toyota is touting here. In real world driving, Toyota's 1.8L current THS-II in the 4th gen Prius is arguably the most efficient hybrid system in real-world driving. Toyota claims this new TNGA 2.0L THS-II system achieves 9% more fuel efficiency than the 1.8L THS-II. That is very impressive, considering this new 2.0L THS-II offers much more power than the 1.8L THS-II. Arguably, the 1.8L THS-II system shouldn't even be on Toyota's TNGA diagram, because it still uses the previous-gen 2ZR engine, which is not a TNGA engine.

Furthermore, the new 2.0L Dynamic Force gas engine (A20A-FKS?) with Direct Shift CVT achieves 18% improved fuel economy over the 2ZR-FE with CVT. The 2ZR-FE is already among the class leaders in fuel economy, and this Dynamic Force 2.0L is a HUGE step up in from the 2ZR. All this while achieving very impressive power figures. It achieves better power and torque figures than Honda's 2.0L naturally aspirated engine, while achieving better fuel economy. Furthermore, it achieves comparable HP to Honda's 1.5L turbocharged engine in regular Civic trim, while also achieving better fuel economy. This is impressive as turbo engines often achieve overrated government fuel economy figures, and tend to under-perform in real world fuel economy. In Civic Si trim, Honda's 1.5L turbo gets much better power numbers, but at the expense of greatly reduced fuel economy. This new Dynamic Force engine achieves better power and fuel economy than Ford's 2.0L 4 cylinder naturally aspirated engine. It even achieves better power and fuel economy than Mazda's praised 2.0L Skyactive-G engine. The Camry with the 2.5L A25A-FKS already achieves 2.0L/1.8L compact car fuel economy while being a 2.5L engine with plenty of power in a midsize sedan. The 1.5L turbo Accord achieves similar power and fuel economy levels, but the Accord 1.5L must resort to a CVT in order to do this, while the Camry has an 8-speed with the A25A-FKS. Also these are EPA numbers, and it's very possible the Camry beats the Accord 1.5L in real world fuel economy.

We can take the current Corolla as an example. In XLE trim, the Corolla with the 2ZR-FE and CVT gets 28/36 EPA mileage. If we apply Toyota's 18% fuel economy improvement that the new 2.0L Dynamic Force gets with Direct Shift CVT, we get about 33/42 or 33/43 EPA mileage. This would be class-leading, beating even the Civic sedan with the regular tune 1.5L turbo and CVT. It would beat the Civic's fuel economy while achieving comparable power figures. Also likely a better overall driving experience, as Toyota's new Direct Shift CVT is a superior design to Honda's CVT. Keep in mind these figures would simply be having the 2.0L Dynamic Force with Direct Shift CVT in the current Corolla. The coming next-gen Corolla may have better aerodynamics and other improvements, further helping fuel economy. These are near-hybrid fuel economy numbers when you think about it.

- I have a theory now that any TNGA engines with turbos might be limited mostly to Lexus models and select overseas Toyota models. Many of us have theorized that Toyota is jumping on the turbo bandwagon across the board, but so far there is little concrete evidence of this. Yes there is the 8AR-FTS, a non-TNGA design. It is featured in mostly Lexus models, and only a small select number of Toyota models in a few markets. Not on any Toyota models in North America. The V35A-FTS engine obviously is exclusive so far to the 5LS. So aside from Lexus, my theory is that any turbo TNGA engines will be offered only on a small select number of Toyota models in markets where engine displacement tax is very significant. Also given the disappointing real world performance of the 8AR-FTS, and even so far the mixed reactions the V35A-FTS is getting in the 5LS, Toyota may not be planning a significant turbo engine rollout. So I expect the rest of the TNGA engines yet to debut to be mostly naturally aspirated. Electric turbos would solve many of the current problems the 8AR-FTS and V35A-FTS have, but who knows if we will ever see electric turbos from Toyota at this point. So I theorize the TNGA workhorse replacement engines of the GR and UR will probably be naturally aspirated. When I say workhorse engines, I mean the base, core engines powering the majority of Toyota V6 and V8 models, along with some Lexus models. For example, the workhorse replacement of the GR series may be a V35A-FKS non-turbo engine. I could be wrong here, but I hope I'm not.

- On Toyota's 4WD master diagram, most of the 4WD and AWD systems are blanked-out, so they are yet to debut. I imagine then that we will be getting a number of new systems for Toyota's BOF vehicles, and possibly even a more hardcore specialized system for Toyota's top BOF off-roading vehicles. This is exciting to think about, as that 4WD master diagram holds a lot of mystery. This could be a long-shot, but just imagine if Toyota came out with a new hardcore 4WD system dedicated specifically to Toyota's TRD Pro lineup, or select Land Cruiser models? I'm sure that would keep the Jeep engineers up at night. Overall though that master 4WD diagram, along with the master powertrain diagram strongly hint at significant new TNGA technologies coming for Toyota's body-on-frame vehicles.

---

Overall I am happy to see more new TNGA engines debuting that are naturally aspirated. Also happy to see other exciting powertrain technologies debuting, from the new AWD systems, to the new CVT and manual transmissions, to the new hybrid system. As a long time Toyota fan, I'm beginning to feel some of the same excitement I had back in the mid 2000s when Toyota had a huge wave of new technologies, powertrains, and new and redesigned models that took the world markets by storm. Yes quality and durability did suffer somewhat as Toyota stretched itself too thin then, but it was fun to see Toyota dominating the competition so much.

 

[spwolf]

Fascinating. So an LC F with a TTV8 + 6MT could be a thing? That would certainly put Ze Germans on notice, especially if it's priced right.

nope... this is for up to 280nm applications, so 4cly engines.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

The two spots on the chart above the TTV6 are 4 cylinder? I must be horribly misunderstanding.

 

[spwolf]

The two spots on the chart above the TTV6 are 4 cylinder? I must be horribly misunderstanding.

No, most certainly V8... but this specific 6 speed is for vehicles under 280nm, so 2.0l, 2.5l NA and less.

You have to consider that MT is #1 transmission in many countries, like in Europe, so of course they are constantly developing new ones.

 

[amoschen7]

@ssun30, thanks so much for this wonderful analysis. Great breakdown!

I do believe we will see another V8 because ToMoCo has enough use cases to justify it - we already know the next gen Tundra and Sequoia are in development, plus there is Land Cruiser, LX, and then the same block could be used for an F V8 for LC/LS/LF-1. Perhaps an updated/detuned version could also replace the 5.0L V8 in the LC 500.

A few questions...

What is the difference between the engine code starting with an "A" or a "V"? It seems to me that naturally aspirated engines start with A and turbocharged ones start with V, but we haven't seen enough models to know for sure. What do you think?

If that's true, I think it would be V20A-FTS for the 2.0T and potentially V25A-FTS for a 2.5L TT I4, right? And then V30A-FTS if they go with a bigger/different engine compared to the 2.5L TT I4.

The most interesting ones to me are the 2.0T and V30A-FTS or V25A-FTS

Toyota has a way of leapfrogging everyone with engines when they unveil an entirely new powertrain line (think about the GR V6 in 2005), so I am expecting these engines to be very powerful indeed. It would not surprise me to see a 420-450hp V8 for Tundra, Sequoia, Land Cruiser and LX.

I’m guessing the first V and A in V35A and A25A is for differentiating V and L engine layout because you already had the T in FTS for turbo.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

You have to consider that MT is #1 transmission in many countries, like in Europe, so of course they are constantly developing new ones.

True, I just didn't expect a 6-speed to be used with smaller engines.

 

[spwolf]

True, I just didn't expect a 6-speed to be used with smaller engines.

heh, i think since past 10 years or so, only Toyota in Europe with 5 speed is Aygo's 1.0 68hp 3cly engine.

Everything else got 6mt... from 1.33 99hp, to 1.2t 112hp and 1.5l 111hp.

 

[ssun30]

What is the difference between the engine code starting with an "A" or a "V"? It seems to me that naturally aspirated engines start with A and turbocharged ones start with V, but we haven't seen enough models to know for sure. What do you think?

I'm leaning towards A for inline engine and V for V-engine. Type of aspiration is encoded in the suffix F'T'S.

Toyota already updated 1.0l KR in upcoming Aygo facelift, and they also did another ESTEC engine in 1.5l NA category last year with Yaris so those two are not on these lists for this years changes. It seems they want only all new engines to show there for this year. They also have new 1.0l KR turbo in small cars in Japan since last year or two.

I completely missed that part. The KR and NR updates are indeed somewhat new. But this could also mean their Dynamic Force update could come very late (2020-2021).
A senior engineer at TMEC said that they were not very happy with the 8NR-FTS design since it does not deliver the power density and fuel efficiency desired. It was just an interim solution for turbo-loving markets like EU and China. The problem is its very small displacement, or rather displacement per cylinder. 300cc is very little space to work with so they couldn't extract a lot of efficiency out of it. The general rule is you want as high displacement per cylinder as possible until you start losing reliability due to stroke length and vibrations. Each engine layout has a different 'sweet spot'. For I4 this is between 350 and 600 cc/cylinder. I3 rules in the sub-1.5L segment. At 330-430 cc/cylinder (1.0-1.3L), the efficiency is unbeatable by I4 but at 1.5L (the 500cc/cylinder 'magic number'), containing vibration becomes more challenging and some engineers may choose I4 for better NVH and scalability.
So I think TMC wants to try following the winning recipe and replace the 8NR-FTS with a 1.2 or 1.3T Inline-3. GM is using its new 1.3T unit to replace a lot of I4 (turbocharged included) engines.

As to the hybrid, it is certainly 1.5l, but it wont be more powerful than Prius hybrid of course...

The Aqua/Yaris Hybrid already makes 75kW, so 90kW is not a significant bump considering the drivetrain could also be used on slightly bigger vehicles like Auris and Corolla.

Also look at how they have shown new 3.5l hybrid in LC/LS - as transmission not engine.

It is labeled as a hybrid system, not a transmission, so it counts towards the 6 hybrids.

Overall I am happy to see more new TNGA engines debuting that are naturally aspirated.

One thing that plays in their favor is China cancelling road tax deduction for sub-1.6L engines and producing engines locally lets them completely bypass the displacement sales tax. The nation is moving towards a emission-based system so Japan will be the last place where displacement tax is a concern.
Still the GR replacement cannot be a V35A-FKS, because the GR series is designed for as high specific output as possible (80hp/L BoL and 90+hp/L EoL). Dynamic Force slightly sacrifices specific output for efficiency, so a V35A-FKS will be less powerful (~280hp) than the 2GR(301-318hp). Obviously nobody wants the IS/ES/RX to have even less power than right now.
Also this engine will find itself on a BoF truck, which could use way more torque low-down than what the naturally aspirated 3.5L offers.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

I don't know if this could be possible. But looking at the diagram with the powertrain models, it seems that there are only 3 engines that will have a V configuration. The rest being inline engines. Other than that, I believe the only engines above the V35A-FTS being the two purported V8's. I don't think we're having a 3.0L engine or a naturally aspirated version of the V35A-FTS. I think the 6 cylinder and the 8 cylinder cars are going all on out turbo.

This isn't bad. Since the 6 and 8 cylinder cars can really go take the competition to their competitors. The turbo/naturally aspirated 4 cylinders with hybrid motors in conjunction make sense. The global market and workhorse Toyota and smaller Lexus models would be having a share in this. I just don't think the naturally aspirated 6 cylinder and 8 cylinder cars will be able to push the envelope reliably, smoothly, sportively and still have that signature creaminess that these engines were known for.

In the case of the 6 cylinders, I highly doubt that they will be able to push further than the 340-350 horsepower barrier in a naturally aspirated form in the 3.5L unit. Same story for the 8 cylinder cars. I don't think they would be able to go higher than give or take 510 hp for the same reasons I mentioned above by simply staying at 5.7L/4.6L/5.0L. These things MUST go along with turbocharging. They will honestly be able to wipe their whole competition like this. Knowing Toyota, when an event like this occurs...... like the 90's or the mid 2000's. Going with what happened then, I seriously believe that competition will be crushed under Toyota/Lexus for a solid 5-6 years until other manufacturers are able to react.