Levi

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The competitive environment is good for all car buyers though, there are some great products on the market.
There are indeed some great products, but not for all buyers. Many buyers just have to deal with what is, and think of used cars as alternatives. The car market is very homogeneous (like smartphones market now compared to 15 years ago mobile phone market). There are very very few niche cars: Lotus, Alpine A110, GT86, Landcruiser/Patrol, Suzuki Jimny, GS-F (soon no more), i8. There is very little choice in terms of tech, there are no stripped down cars worth something, if you want handling or power or comfort or something, you get the whole package with things you don't need/want. It always was so to some extent, but now it has become far worse.
 
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Carmaker1

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I'm going to be honest - I've nearly quit the forum a few times recently because it's so relentlessly negative. I feel like I'm indirectly being called out for actually enjoying my LS some days. But I agree with everything you say - the sports analogy is especially apt for Vikings fans this off-season 😂
At times when I have expressed concerns regarding the LS in my commentary you're always in the back of my head as one of the most well known LS 500 owners here. I am sorry about that, as I'm very conscious about it and always hope my words don't come across as critical of owners.

It's just frustrating to see that it's not being received as well I hoped after 12 years and more options are not available on the vehicle in the first place. In person the car is very striking and has a big presence with tinted windows. At the grand opening of a Porsche dealership I was a part of in early 2019 as a favor, a local businesswoman showed up at valet in a beautiful white example and didn't look out of place one bit. I wouldn't be able to say the same for its predecessor aesthetically.

The six cylinder is class-leading in terms of other F segment 6s, but for the weirdest unexplained reasons people are rejecting it in favor of competition and SUVs. There is not enough diversity in the product range for the LS. There were ways to build on its strengths and expand. I didn't see much expansion, outside of eye catching sporty design and some fancier trim details. It doesn't refer to owners having no taste or anything. Of course I can't speak for others.

It isn't a terrible car in the least but it needs more available equipment and broader range of offerings. There's still excellent potential to be had and not slept on. The only major point of contention is the LS 500h needing more oomph.
 
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It's sad, but I can't say I'm particularly surprised. I believe it. GS is currently built pretty much just for North America and Japan. The fact that it was moved out from the Tahara plant into Motomachi (which is set up for low-volume models like Lexus LFA and LC) speaks volumes about dwindling GS production and sales.
Hold on. Maybe that's a good thing. Move GS production to Motomatchi (where all the aspirational models are made) and focus on making a bomb-a** GS. Make it low production but its sheer appeal would drive the sh*t out of the sales figures upwards anyways. Also remember if the Mirai is based on the GA-L platform of the LS and LC, and if we have a GS that is based on the Crown and the Mirai which are on the aforementioned platform, then that is a different strategy Lexus could take for the GS and move it upmarket. Heck, being on the same production line as the LC would be really good for the GS as well. I know the LS is the 4-door LC, but I know how you guys also said that if the new GS makes a radical departure, it could be the spiritual 4-door LC. To top that, it will be on the same platform as the LC, be built in the same plant as the LC, and have the same appeal as the LC too.

However for all of this to work you need to give the idiot dealers a big 5000 page book on how to use logic, and two, teach them on how to sell their aspirational cars and not revert to selling RX's and ES' as a defense mechanism.

This move can be very possible and be a good spell for Lexus in the future, but that's if they use their head and common sense.
 

mikeavelli

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Hold on. Maybe that's a good thing. Move GS production to Motomatchi (where all the aspirational models are made) and focus on making a bomb-a** GS. Make it low production but its sheer appeal would drive the sh*t out of the sales figures upwards anyways. Also remember if the Mirai is based on the GA-L platform of the LS and LC, and if we have a GS that is based on the Crown and the Mirai which are on the aforementioned platform, then that is a different strategy Lexus could take for the GS and move it upmarket. Heck, being on the same production line as the LC would be really good for the GS as well. I know the LS is the 4-door LC, but I know how you guys also said that if the new GS makes a radical departure, it could be the spiritual 4-door LC. To top that, it will be on the same platform as the LC, be built in the same plant as the LC, and have the same appeal as the LC too.

However for all of this to work you need to give the idiot dealers a big 5000 page book on how to use logic, and two, teach them on how to sell their aspirational cars and not revert to selling RX's and ES' as a defense mechanism.

This move can be very possible and be a good spell for Lexus in the future, but that's if they use their head and common sense.
One can dream. It’s a good theory and makes sense. Why retool that plant for an older model?

Hoping we get good news on the GS.
 

Ian Schmidt

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At times when I have expressed concerns regarding the LS in my commentary you're always in the back of my head as one of the most well known LS 500 owners here. I am sorry about that, as I'm very conscious about it and always hope my words don't come across as critical of owners.
You're fine. I also have a lot of ideas about what they *should* be doing with the LS, but I still love mine as it is.
 

bogglo

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if i can get a GS-F at a good price before the end of the year. I think i will be making it the next million miles Lexus lol. Since my first 3GS, no other car has been able to satisfy my needs as the GS does. I'm sure others share this feeling too. I really hope the next IS is good enough to console GS fanatics. IF not Lexus needs to drop a hint as they did with the LC. SC to LC GS to ??
 

internalaudit

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if i can get a GS-F at a good price before the end of the year. I think i will be making it the next million miles Lexus lol. Since my first 3GS, no other car has been able to satisfy my needs as the GS does. I'm sure others share this feeling too. I really hope the next IS is good enough to console GS fanatics. IF not Lexus needs to drop a hint as they did with the LC. SC to LC GS to ??
Besides occupant space and trunk space, more interior plushness/polish (less NVH), better/more forgving ride and (probably) more powerful/smoother engine, what are the other advantages of the GS over the IS?

Even the IS has a lot of aluminum components on the underside, has double wish bone front suspension.

I just want to be educated just in case the GS lives on. :)
 

bogglo

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Besides occupant space and trunk space, more interior plushness/polish (less NVH), better/more forgving ride and (probably) more powerful/smoother engine, what are the other advantages of the GS over the IS?

Even the IS has a lot of aluminum components on the underside, has double wish bone front suspension.

I just want to be educated just in case the GS lives on. :)
I can't think of any other advantage other than what you listed. however, everything you listed is enough reason why most people go for the GS over instead of IS. The GS is an upgrade to the IS and in some aspect the ES.

The GS is a perfect mid-class sport sedan that Lexus slacked on. I really have nothing against the IS. in fact if Lexus is able to make the next IS get closer in size to the current GS (at least like the mark X in japan or a little bigger) with more luxury and performance than previous IS I will consider it. I think its easier for Lexus to place the IS in a position to satisfy both IS and GS owners. something LIke an IS sportcross that people are requesting something similar to the KIA stinger/Panamera design with better execution of course. The ES stepping in for the GS I just don't see myself accepting it even though I love the new ES looks.
 

mikeavelli

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Besides occupant space and trunk space, more interior plushness/polish (less NVH), better/more forgving ride and (probably) more powerful/smoother engine, what are the other advantages of the GS over the IS?

Even the IS has a lot of aluminum components on the underside, has double wish bone front suspension.

I just want to be educated just in case the GS lives on. :)
Ive had both GS and IS F-Sport when they were new. I find them equally nimble and I can't say the IS drove any sportier. It just felt more intimate because it is smaller. One thing I do love about the IS rarely talked about is the fold down rear seats. It is the only Lexus sedan to offer it and it does come in handy. The IS also IMO looks better and way more distinctive.

Today, a new IS goes up now against a used or certified GS for the same price. I would get the GS every time.
 

Will1991

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The first time I experienced amazing both on passenger seat and driving, was a 3GS450h around 6/7 years ago. I must be honest, I wasn't expecting so much performance from a Hybrid... It reached 260km/h with so much ease while keeping everything under control.

Then my friend sold it for a 1IS200 and a Nissan S13 project car (it's getting really really nice).
 

mikeavelli

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Also this is what gets me. The Lexus GS lineup had the most diverse lineup. DIdn't matter. This is for the USA market. At one time we had
GS 200t/
GS 200t F-Sport
GS 350
GS 350 F-Sport
GS 450h
GS 450h F-Sport
GS F

To be honest the GS 450h F-Sport is one of the most complete cars ever. 0-60 in low 5s, 30 MPG and the trunk room was there.
 

ssun30

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Besides occupant space and trunk space, more interior plushness/polish (less NVH), better/more forgving ride and (probably) more powerful/smoother engine, what are the other advantages of the GS over the IS?:)
You basically just listed the reasons why GS is better than the IS...

Comfort is very important for a sporty vehicle. Ride quality and ergonomics are part of the driving experience. That's why I feel Lexus has done right with the GS and RC. Unfortunately, people are too obsessed with numbers instead of true virtues of a sporty car, and often dismiss 'comfort' as opposite to 'sportiness'.

The IS has always suffered from poor packaging which degrades the overall driving experience, even though the cockpit remains reasonably comfortable (the IS F-Sport has the best seats in its class). I've never understood why the IS doesn't share the same dimensions as its Mark X cousin, which is a much more practical and spacious D-segment sporty sedan. I guess Lexus was trying to match the dimensions of the 3-series, but BMW has always had better space efficiency.
 
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You basically just listed the reasons why GS is better than the IS...

Comfort is very important for a sporty vehicle. Ride quality and ergonomics are part of the driving experience. That's why I feel Lexus has done right with the GS and RC. Unfortunately, people are too obsessed with numbers instead of true virtues of a sporty car, and often dismiss 'comfort' as opposite to 'sportiness'.
What numbers are you referring to? Horsepower? At the end of the day, it is why certain cars sell well. And you seem to be critical of buyer tastes, and dictating that they need to seek comfort instead. To me, that just sounds condescending that people aren't buying them because they don't share your feelings.
 
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Levi

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I on the contrary like the non-folding rear seats on the GS, it makes it a true 3 box sedan. Yes, potentially less practicle, but even then there are more practicle cars. I don't like so much all-in-one cars. Better cheaper cars, but one for each purpose rather than an X5 Mfor example, not bad but still best in nothing.

PS: I still want Lexus to make a RWD RX F.
 

bogglo

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You basically just listed the reasons why GS is better than the IS...

Comfort is very important for a sporty vehicle. Ride quality and ergonomics are part of the driving experience. That's why I feel Lexus has done right with the GS and RC. Unfortunately, people are too obsessed with numbers instead of true virtues of a sporty car, and often dismiss 'comfort' as opposite to 'sportiness'.

The IS has always suffered from poor packaging which degrades the overall driving experience, even though the cockpit remains reasonably comfortable (the IS F-Sport has the best seats in its class). I've never understood why the IS doesn't share the same dimensions as its Mark X cousin, which is a much more practical and spacious D-segment sporty sedan. I guess Lexus was trying to match the dimensions of the 3-series, but BMW has always had better space efficiency.
Every time I see a mark X while I was in japan it reminds of the L-finesse of the 3GS very attractive looking car.
 

CRSKTN

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I on the contrary like the non-folding rear seats on the GS, it makes it a true 3 box sedan. Yes, potentially less practicle, but even then there are more practicle cars. I don't like so much all-in-one cars. Better cheaper cars, but one for each purpose rather than an X5 Mfor example, not bad but still best in nothing.

PS: I still want Lexus to make a RWD RX F.
I have a feeling an RX F at a good price would be killer.
 

ssun30

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What numbers are you referring to? Horsepower? At the end of the day, it is why certain cars sell well. And you seem to be critical of buyer tastes, and dictating that they need to seek comfort instead. To me, that just sounds condescending that people aren't buying them because they don't share your feelings.
I was referring to the media. And their incomplete/biased views drive people to make purchase decisions. It has nothing to do with buyer tastes. Consumers get misinformed all the time.
 
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