suxeL

Follower
Messages
150
Reaction score
112
This is interesting. Their going to rework a hydrogen platform and adapt it to fit a hybrid or combustion engine.
 

krew

Expert
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
3,401
Reaction score
5,370

The Lexus GS may survive to live another day, as a rumour floating around the Internet suggests a next-generation model may be based on the upcoming Toyota Mirai sedan. A release date of 2022 is mentioned.
There’s a certain logic to the idea, in that the new Mirai, with its rear-wheel drive platform and advanced powertrain, should have always been a Lexus first and a Toyota second. Should this rumor prove true, it would go a long way to bringing some balance to the Lexus lineup.
(This information has apparently leaked from a recent Lexus dealer meeting, with many of the details collaborating recent rumors...
Continue reading...


 

zeusus

Follower
Messages
269
Reaction score
537
Funny now that the rumors suggest the Mirai could expand into the GS, people (those complaining big time) will conveniently forget the Mirai was a spin-off from the GS.

Negating the Mirari, the GS is just the GS or whatever it is destined to be. Looking back, was all the outcry justified?
 

maiaramdan

Admirer
Messages
1,008
Reaction score
792
Funny now that the rumors suggest the Mirai could expand into the GS, people (those complaining big time) will conveniently forget the Mirai was a spin-off from the GS.

Negating the Mirari, the GS is just the GS or whatever it is destined to be. Looking back, was all the outcry justified?
Honestly will be more than justified if the next generation GS be like a show tech for Lexus brand

For example and that's just a pure example

If we have the basic GS as a normal Hybrid electric with the long rumoured I4 TT and less with mid 200~ hp

then the plug-in hybrid matched with the 3.5 V6 TT for near 500 hp

then the top is pure electric with in wheel motor and maybe even with KERS for the top output as the top of the GS line

finally the fuel-cell, if the first generation Mirai was around 154hp with the second generation will be nearly double that which will make it fit between the hybrid and the plug-in hybrid

That line will be optimum even a bit optimistic but every piece to make is already here

Finally regarding the fuel-cell specifically, I think within 10 years we won't face any refuelling problem especially in those 10 countries

 

ssun30

Expert
Messages
1,430
Reaction score
2,827
This is interesting. Their going to rework a hydrogen platform and adapt it to fit a hybrid or combustion engine.
They don't need to rework the Mirai into the GS. They've already made a GS but decided to not sell it world wide. It's called the Crown.

GS actually makes a lot of sense now since the future of GA-L products are uncertain in the upcoming economic conditions. They need a fallback product for those no longer able to afford a LS/LC/LX, something that's cheaper but still make them 'feel rich' (the ES doesn't achieve that).

A GS300h/500h/500 lineup would be instantly competitive against anything BBA have to offer. Price them similar to the Crown in JDM and they have a very strong value position.

People buying $100k cars are not going to fall back to 40k cars but somewhere in between. The middle of the market could see a renaissance. With the ES covering too narrow of a price range ($40-55k) they need GS as an insurance policy to cover the 50-65k segment.
 
Last edited:

James

Admirer
Founding Member
Messages
457
Reaction score
735
I'll be honest I cam so confused on like all news coming from Lexus. What in the hell is coming out and when is it coming out? Are all brands this bad? I don't follow anything like I do Lexus (on this site every day) but my God I can't keep track on what is coming out when or what products are even coming out? I know they need to not say anything to keep selling current products but damn can we get some actual clarity and not just rumors? I love my GS and want a new one badly but this back and forth is like killing me. Sorry if this is considered a rant but clarity would be super helpful with Lexus on not only what products are coming out in the future but clarity on when is huge as well.

BTW GS that is like an A7 I think is a great idea!
 

CRSKTN

Follower
Messages
283
Reaction score
480
Yeah... wasn't the Mirai just the new killed GS rebadged as a toyota or something?

Are they just pulling the old, "new" GS plans back out of development purgatory? Or is this another project, or an update of those previous plans?

Either way, for the Mirai i imagine that platform has been modified to support electrification hardware.

GS could be a big statement PHEV vehicle after a more mass market PHEV NX.

I'll say this: GS needs to go balls out for style. As a result the LS needs to review the luxury/sportiness balance of that vehicle if GS can instead deliver that very coupe-like profile.

I'm not even sure why the smaller, previous generation LS still feels like a "bigger" vehicle to me. I think it may have something to do with the proportions of the design, sort of how lamborghinis like the gallardo looked much bigger in photos vs real life.

LS needs to get "bigger", they need to box it out a bit again. Honestly the LS suffered for how relatively good the new ES is. Especially if there is talk of the LX being a Bentayga fighter, they need more than cut glass accents.

Honestly they need to bring that Century level game.



 
Last edited:

Will1991

Admirer
Messages
515
Reaction score
910
Lexus is in big trouble with launching a new GS...

-> Length by models:
Current IS: 4.680mm
Current Crown: 4.910mm
Current ES and 2nd gen Mirai: 4.975mm
Current LS: 5.235mm

Making it smaller than the ES, I'm not seeing it happen since (if I'm not mistaken) I've read around here IS is set to grow.
Being based on the 2nd gen Mirai would be the same length as the ES, not seeing either.
Bigger than the ES, would be very close to the LS and considering we haven't even seen a facelifted LS, it will stay as is at least 4 more years (1 to launch a facelift and 3 more for sale) making a 2022 GS launch around 2 years overlap untill Lexus is able to grow LS in size.

Where it would fit?
 

Carmaker1

Admirer
Messages
724
Reaction score
2,060
Knowing where All Car News got their information from, this is unfortunately conjecture.

It's interesting to see that the automotive media are engaging in their circle jerk of misinformation left and right, by injecting their own made of bits of information in with credible text to make it sound genuine.

What I do hate is how it makes its way back here. Things never change with the media. FT86Club apparently rips all media to pieces.

Funny now that the rumors suggest the Mirai could expand into the GS, people (those complaining big time) will conveniently forget the Mirai was a spin-off from the GS.

Negating the Mirari, the GS is just the GS or whatever it is destined to be. Looking back, was all the outcry justified?
I really don't understand why you have the need to essentially bait other people such as myself and a few other unnamed members, over our well warranted concerns for the Lexus brand in such a passive aggressive manner.

I don't bother posting here anymore to a large degree based on that, as I don't really need the unwelcome anxiety. Lexus is essentially the lone standing Japanese luxury brand today that has something to actually deliver on a global level and no one wants to see them slip.

I really do not come here to see people snidely attack my previous commentary, as if I somehow live for gloom and doom. Or I am some knuckle-dragging idiot, with no grasp of things or composure.

As for this GS rumor I would take it with a grain of salt or straight up dismiss it, because I can tell where it came from and it seems like it was creatively reworded by someone who has no insight.

The GS became the Mirai, something which was said last year to all of us here specifically by @Gecko. Only one media entity got that information 6 weeks ago among others. Everyone else is making up things as they go along, coasting off of that and regurgitating text to their liking.

I am extremely disappointed that their misleading drivel is making it back here and confusing us. I hope and pray that the GS is redesigned, but almost every superior source (credbility) has pretty much spelled out for me to my chagrin, that it is not being redesigned. I've barely been able to get over that, provided good investments are made in other vehicles.

I don't think Toyota knows what to do with it for now, but a redesign is not coming just yet. That is solid right there.
 

Carmaker1

Admirer
Messages
724
Reaction score
2,060

A leaked doc says GS is coming sharing with the Murai sedan. Makes a ton of sense here and I think Lexus must have demanded a version of the car. Being LS based and RWD with maybe the same hydrogen power (I assume optional) would be amazing and make another nameplate for
The next GS F.

I’m very enthused right now
This so-called leaked doc is not credible information. It reads way too familiar to me and the information involved never said that. I wish that OTHER media would not just pick up on anything anyhow and play with people for clicks.

Even the powertrain of the next BRZ and 86 has yet to be confirmed and Motor1 tossed that in to sell their article.. Really frustrating to read and see what they are all doing. The only thing I can hope is that Toyota sees all this backlash and cares to at least keep the GS alive and plan. Highly unlikely I imagine, but one hopes.
 

Trexus

Admirer
Founding Member
Messages
498
Reaction score
667
I'm excited that the GS lives on as it should...keep and expand the GS line...5 Series and E Class don't think for a minute the GS is being discontinued...

GS 350 (2GR-FKS)
GS 500h (2GR-FXE)
GS 500 (V35A-FTS)
GS F (TTV8)
GS Fuel Cell Variant
 
Last edited:
Messages
526
Reaction score
841
I really don't understand why you have the need to essentially bait other people such as myself and a few other unnamed members, over our well warranted concerns for the Lexus brand in such a passive aggressive manner.

I don't bother posting here anymore to a large degree based on that, as I don't really need the unwelcome anxiety. Lexus is essentially the lone standing Japanese luxury brand today that has something to actually deliver on a global level and no one wants to see them slip.

I really do not come here to see people snidely attack my previous commentary, as if I somehow live for gloom and doom. Or I am some knuckle-dragging idiot, with no grasp of things or composure.


As for this GS rumor I would take it with a grain of salt or straight up dismiss it, because I can tell where it came from and it seems like it was creatively reworded by someone who has no insight.

The GS became the Mirai, something which was said last year to all of us here specifically by @Gecko. Only one media entity got that information 6 weeks ago among others. Everyone else is making up things as they go along, coasting off of that and regurgitating text to their liking.

I am extremely disappointed that their misleading drivel is making it back here and confusing us. I hope and pray that the GS is redesigned, but almost every superior source (credbility) has pretty much spelled out for me to my chagrin, that it is not being redesigned. I've barely been able to get over that, provided good investments are made in other vehicles.

I don't think Toyota knows what to do with it for now, but a redesign is not coming just yet. That is solid right there.
All right, I'll bite too. There's a reason why I dropped off the face of the earth like @Carmaker1 and haven't posted here in ~4 months as well and I back him on his stance on Lexus' current condition as a organization.

Frankly speaking, I have lost complete and total interest into this godforsaken brand, and I genuinely mean it, there is not even a tiny shred of care left in me anymore for Lexus. Also remember how enthusiastic and positive of a person I was towards this brand, and when things were going poor, I was still one of the few who kept being optimistic. Not anymore though. Those days are over. I still stand by my point that Lexus' most interesting cars are the LC, LS, GS, IS and GS F.

There comes a point that when the company is totally out of touch with what the market and what enthusiasts (or regular customers?! Did Lexus just forget about their regular buyers who expect more?) want out of the brand and they're just pissing about doing their own thing, there is no wonder that people are running away from Lexus. No amount of good customer service and positive reputation will do any help if the product lineup is straight-up average. Hell, I think I may have overstated their lineup, it's worse than average. Another glaring point is that when you have a parent company who has their act together more than their flagship luxury brand, there is something seriously wrong with the organization.

When you have Toyota, Porsche and Mercedes-Benz for example, who answer to people and actually give a damn about their customer feedback and RESPONDS with a good and interesting product, sales go up, this is literal Business 101 (is it even 101? This should be common sense.). You guys want examples? Toyota with the Camry and Avalon TRD. Those things are selling so hot right now and many dealers are demanding for more to be built. Porsche with the re-introduction of the flat-six (albeit the new ones with the particulate filter sound nowhere near as good as the older flat-sixes) to slowly replace the garbage truck Subaru-sounding turbo flat-fours. Sales are going up again for Porsche (as if they weren't selling a lot already). What about Mercedes-Benz and their new 800 horsepower 73-Series AMG's?

Look at the sheer amount of technology and engineering excellence that goes into modern Mercedes-Benz vehicles for example, and you know what? The Germans are getting more and more reliable nowadays, and while Lexus is still obviously more reliable than the Germans, is it really worth it to get a Lexus over a Mercedes-Benz or a BMW at that point? Heck, Audi who lags 4th in sales have some interesting products with their A3, A4, A5, A6, Q8, TT, and R8 lineup. Lexus vehicles used to be really big challengers to the Germans, and now Genesis, a brand that I love to regularly sh*t on, now has built a GS competitor to the Germans and has done their RX competitor (GV80) the right way. AT LEAST they're doing way more than what Lexus is doing right now, and I'm going to give them credit for it.

When you are concerned for how a brand is doing as whole, and you see them shooting themselves in the foot by focusing on the wrong things, there comes a point where you just give the dumbasses the finger and give up on them. That's what I did, and I will stay this way until I actually see some life into this stupid brand that I foolishly fell for. Also, for the pillocks who believe this is Toyota's or Akio's fault, you're just allowing yourself to be insane and telling yourself lies that simply aren't true. Toyoda-san gave the guys at Lexus many chances and gave them so much attention only for the old fart Lexus executives to just piss on it and be petty. I would have kicked their asses to the curb, but eventually they will be gone. Also, y'all need to get outta here with those stupid "Toyoda-san being a playboy" bull like some people want to believe. When you have Lexus and their retarded dealers who whore the wrong cars to customers and are confused as all hell when there is actually an aspirational product in the showroom floor, there exists a fundamental problem at Lexus and NOBODY has tried to fix it either.

This next part goes out to @zeusus. People like you are what's wrong with this brand, and to a greater extent, this world. Last time around, you thought you had the balls (more like you thought you were edgy) to call me out and it fell flat on its face when I fired back. Well, you didn't have the balls to clap back because you damn well knew you were barking up the wrong tree. @Carmaker1 and I are people who were originally so damn passionate but even myself (I'll just single myself out here), as someone who is the most optimistic person ever and hopes that a brand can be competitive on the worlds stage doesn't see the brand that they love perform up to expectations time and time again, and I'll say this again, there comes a point where you just say "f*ck it, I'm outta here". You being complacent makes you a perfect candidate for a position as one of the brain-dead employees at Lexus because you're wanting to everything remaining as status-quo. In case you have a memory of a goldfish, Lexus did not operate like this to become the bestselling luxury brand out there, but now they are complacent (just like you are), so what gives?

@Carmaker1 mentioned this before. Toyota/Lexus represents the best out of Japan, so there is a natural expectation for them to perform. We aren't doom and gloom people either, rather we look at the facts and we base off our arguments based off of that. So please, go take your snide comments and your edginess and stick it up your rear end. If you can respond, go ahead, but at this point I muzzled you real good.

Hey @Gecko, I know I sound like a jerk right now, but despite us not commenting on here and being flat-out annoyed with this brand, we have been lurking and we have been seeing his comments. So I responded, because I have a right to defend myself.

Feel free to censor this one too.
 

internalaudit

Follower
Messages
410
Reaction score
503
I did mention before that with BEVs, there will no longer be the four to five year warranty covering engine/transmission issues (and then the dreaded costly ownership afterwards). There will be eight to 10 years covering the battery and most other issues like suspension or body work will not be expensive fixes even for Euro makes.

Toyota will be in a shocker if it thinks reliability rankings will not change drastically with electric vehicles.

Reliability will be the baseline and won't remain a competitive advantage going forward.
 

Will1991

Admirer
Messages
515
Reaction score
910
I don't see it trouble at all
Mercedes have 3 "E / CLS / 4-GT" and will be 5 "EQ-E & EQ-S" in the same length

If the same length as Mirai it will be optimum as the GS and ES are too different to intersect
Fair point, you're right. When I posted I honestly didn't think on that perspective.

After your point, the one @ssun30 write made much more sense to me about a Crown-based GS. Even the correct powertrains are there!
 

zeusus

Follower
Messages
269
Reaction score
537
This next part goes out to @zeusus. People like you are what's wrong with this brand, and to a greater extent, this world. Last time around, you thought you had the balls (more like you thought you were edgy) to call me out and it fell flat on its face when I fired back. Well, you didn't have the balls to clap back because you damn well knew you were barking up the wrong tree. @Carmaker1 and I are people who were originally so damn passionate but even myself (I'll just single myself out here), as someone who is the most optimistic person ever and hopes that a brand can be competitive on the worlds stage doesn't see the brand that they love perform up to expectations time and time again, and I'll say this again, there comes a point where you just say "f*ck it, I'm outta here". You being complacent makes you a perfect candidate for a position as one of the brain-dead employees at Lexus because you're wanting to everything remaining as status-quo. In case you have a memory of a goldfish, Lexus did not operate like this to become the bestselling luxury brand out there, but now they are complacent (just like you are), so what gives?
Lol...Interesting.

I let it go because for me its easy to not get emotionally involved in posting. I suggest we leave the past in the past but if you want me to respond, I'm capable but you probably won't like it, and would go into an emotional tailspin. Not a good look.

I will continue to speak my mind and voice competing views (often alone) to what seems like a (more than) plurality hive mind mentality here.

I wonder how much of a "Lexus Enthusiast" one really is, if the reason they refuse to participate in the forums is because their singular views are challenged. Life is challenging, cry me a river.... The diversity of opinions of people who are passionate about Lexus is what makes a forum. We don't need to be ideologically goose stepping as if some authoritarian military regime.

We have people who want more F, electric, sales, luxury, regional, etc... Everybody wants their piece of Lexus and I appreciate that. Despite being a minority opinion here on the forums, I stay on the playing field instead of taking my ball and stomping home.

That being said, I love the GS, drive the GS and very excited to see a new one, especially if it could be hydrogen powered. I question the reactionary responses and outcry because like some have mentioned, it appears to have made a lot of sense to have the GS since its technically already built. If Lexus executives can build a business case for the 5GS, great!
 
Last edited:
Top