The Future of the IS Thread

[Will1991]

@internalaudit , I want to believe it’s possible due to CHR has been announced as a BEV and it’s built on ‘normal’ TNGA’ and we even have a very good indication as the UX being the first Lexus BEV and it’s also ‘normal’ TNGA...

What we can see it’s how big of a deal the next couple of years will be for Toyota and specially Lexus due to several Model changes.

 

[internalaudit]

@internalaudit , I want to believe it’s possible due to CHR has been announced as a BEV and it’s built on ‘normal’ TNGA’ and we even have a very good indication as the UX being the first Lexus BEV and it’s also ‘normal’ TNGA...

What we can see it’s how big of a deal the next couple of years will be for Toyota and specially Lexus due to several Model changes.

Almost every car maker now talks about getting many of their BEVs out by 2025. Even existing battery makers such as CATL is predicting lots of progress on current Li-on technology:

CATL considers US plant, targets 45 percent energy-density boost in 5 years

The Chinese battery supplier CATL is setting some ambitious targets for energy density advancements, as it seriously considers a U.S. plant.

www.greencarreports.com

and many newer solid state batteries kinda have the same target but we know Toyota will announce its own SSB progress next summer.

Green Car Congress

<SPACER TYPE=Vertical SIZE=100> Technologies, issues and policies for sustainable mobility.</SPACER>

www.greencarcongress.com

Good thing my horizon can stretch that far, thanks to owning a Toyota and two Honda vehicles and because we know depreciation is the number one pocketbook killer and I can probably scoop up used BEVs (if need be) for a song if Toyota and Honda delay their BEV offerings to Canada.

 

[Carmaker1]

There are no trademark filings for the next generation IS, so does this mean that like the case with the ES 350 and ES 300H that IS 350, IS 300, and IS 300h carryover with no power train changes for TNGA?

Nearly all new vehicles from Lexus that change Powertrain required trademark filings by Toyota attorneys 2 to 3 years beforehand. We are in late 2019 so by now they should have done that. I know now that the car is definitely not going to be a 2023 or 2024 model. According to a trusted member of this website at least for the United States it is one year away.

In the case of the 6th generation ES you had trademarks filed in December 2010 21 months ahead of launch. For the current generation, ES 250 was filed recently in July. That could easily be for a model year 2021 introduction, yet nada for IS.

 

[GNS]

There are no trademark filings for the next generation IS, so does this mean that like the case with the ES 350 and ES 300H that IS 350, IS 300, and IS 300h carryover with no power train changes for TNGA?

Nearly all new vehicles from Lexus that change Powertrain required trademark filings by Toyota attorneys 2 to 3 years beforehand. We are in late 2019 so by now they should have done that. I know now that the car is definitely not going to be a 2023 or 2024 model. According to a trusted member of this website at least for the United States it is one year away.

In the case of the 6th generation ES you had trademarks filed in December 2010 21 months ahead of launch. For the current generation, ES 250 was filed recently in July. That could easily be for a model year 2021 introduction, yet nada for IS.

Infiniti pulled something similar, the first model years of the Q50 still used the VQ37VHR engine, then they switched to the 3.0TTV6 for the 2016 MY.

 

[Carmaker1]

Infiniti pulled something similar, the first model years of the Q50 still used the VQ37VHR engine, then they switched to the 3.0TTV6 for the 2016 MY.

True but at this point this should not be happening. The 2GR FKS needs to be replaced in such a vehicle and a better Dynamic Force 4 cylinder needs to replace the A25A immediately. Nissan at least maintained that engine for only 7 years and updated it from the original VQ35 before that (w/gradual increases). The 2GR has only increased 5 hp since 2005, 14 years ago!

Maybe the lack of trademarks doesn't mean anything, as once upon a time Toyota MC barely filed trademarks in March 2000 for the LS 430 that already made its debut at NAIAS 2000 and other 430 nameplates in GS 430 and SC 430 that month. Typically they would've been filed in 1998 or 1999 ahead of fall 2000 and March 2001 launch.

IS 300 was already trademarked in November 1997, ahead of July 2000 launch (IS 200 came earlier). Maybe it's about keeping it close to vest or indecision on how to market a new powertrain. It does happen.

 

[Gecko]

Who is ready for another refresh?!

 

[GNS]

Who is ready for another refresh?!

???

What happen.

 

[Carmaker1]

Who is ready for another refresh?!

No should ever disregard what this man has to say...ever! He is 100%.

 

[Carmaker1]

???

What happen.

Ohhhh dear. Y'all hold on now.

 

[GNS]

Ohhhh dear. Y'all hold on now.

....

I want off this planet.

 

[maiaramdan]

He is KAZ Hirai isn't he ?

 

[Gecko]

No should ever disregard what this man has to say...ever! He is 100%.

Over the years, some people here have not liked what I have to say, which is certainly ok and welcome. However, I have not often been wrong with predictions about the future, or have corrected earlier statements with more up to date information. The issue is people not liking what Lexus is doing, and blaming the messenger 🙃

Anyway, much of what I am hearing about 4IS is... not a 4IS, but rather a 3.5IS. Same platform and carryover engines with updated exterior and interior styling because Lexus now views it as a niche model not worthy of any more investment than that. Very sad. In execution, I would expect something similar to the 2014 LS 460.

Earlier, in the context of the GS demise, I mentioned that Lexus would likely do the same with the IS - neglect and abandon it - and go to a two-sedan strategy with ES and LS. Unfortunately, these rumors seem to indicate that course of action is correct.

 

[GNS]

Over the years, some people here have not liked what I have to say, which is certainly ok and welcome. However, I have not often been wrong with predictions about the future, or have have corrected earlier statements with more up to date information. The issue is people not liking what Lexus is doing, and blaming the messenger 🙃

Anyway, much of what I am hearing about 4IS is... not a 4IS, but rather a 3.5IS. Same platform and carryover engines with updated exterior and interior styling because Lexus now views it as a niche model not worthy of any more investment than that. Very sad. In execution, I would expect something similar to the 2014 LS 460.

Earlier, in the context of the GS demise, I mentioned that Lexus would likely do the same with the IS - neglect and abandon it - and go to a two-sedan strategy with ES and LS. Unfortunately, these rumors seem to indicate that course of action is correct.

Wait! Same platform (Toyota New N), not even TNGA-L or TNGA-N?!?

 

[Carmaker1]

Over the years, some people here have not liked what I have to say, which is certainly ok and welcome. However, I have not often been wrong with predictions about the future, or have have corrected earlier statements with more up to date information. The issue is people not liking what Lexus is doing, and blaming the messenger 🙃

Anyway, much of what I am hearing about 4IS is... not a 4IS, but rather a 3.5IS. Same platform and carryover engines with updated exterior and interior styling because Lexus now views it as a niche model not worthy of any more investment than that. Very sad. In execution, I would expect something similar to the 2014 LS 460.

Earlier, in the context of the GS demise, I mentioned that Lexus would likely do the same with the IS - neglect and abandon it - and go to a two-sedan strategy with ES and LS. Unfortunately, these rumors seem to indicate that course of action is correct.

Winner on this post!

Can't believe it though (shock). After 7.5 years, this is the result.

Well, is this because of a Mazda RWD collaboration mid-decade? Maybe. Probably it's gonna die altogether. Or waiting for on non-ICE setup?

I'm too old to really care at this point.

 

[Carmaker1]

Wait! Same platform (Toyota New N), not even TNGA-L or TNGA-N?!?

From what he is saying, yes. Makes so much sense. 2NX is not even testing in the field, this hasn't been either. Rarely the case with modern Toyotas as per pre-recall concerns, with little physical prototypes and too short lead times.

2022 NX is definitely TNGA (and will roll out in the coming months), but this...hmph.

 

[Gecko]

Wait! Same platform (Toyota New N), not even TNGA-L or TNGA-N?!?

I'm 70% certain it's the same platform.

 

[LexiF]

I was thinking to get some new IS’s for my business or if was going to be too long then maybe some ES’s; that bubbles just been burst. If Lexus was moving towards the ultimate luxury market then fair enough but to be making cars like the UX and killing off the IS/RC/GS maybe even the LS as it doesn’t sell trillions of units an hour, they have to be mad surely? And I was patiently waiting for the LCF...Surely I must be mad! Staying with a brand that has no image, no loyalty and no understanding on how to go forward without deleting established historical models.

Gone are the days of my enthusiasm towards Lexus...

...Awakened is my interest in Germany.

P.s Just wanted to say what a fantastic group of people are on this site! In general seems like most people are very genuine and there isn’t any bullshit trolling of Lexus; just real disappointments. Anyway wanted to just wish everyone all the best as I’m now finished with Lexus.

 

[Gecko]

The 21 IS will have 3 engine options: a 2.5 liter hybrid, a 2.5 liter turbo and a 3.5 liter v6. The v6 will b only available on FSPORT
21 IS-F is a possibility but not confirmed within Lexus. Lexus US is having conversations with Lexus Japan on bringing back the IS-F but unfortunately if they do, it will be the same 5.0 liter currently in RC-F, GS-F and LC.

I also think this part is true, but that these engines will sit in the same basic platform - Toyota "New N." Hybrid is a given. I hope the 2.0T is replaced with the rumored 2.4T or 2.5T... that would be the high point for this car if the 2GR-FKS is going to be a carryover. Not sure how it would rank for power, but offering the V6 only on the F-Sport model would be a (lazy) effort at appealing to the performance buyer.

Refreshed interior, refreshed exterior, same platform, new colors and a new "core" 2.4 or 2.5L turbo 4 is probably decent for most buyers, despite our disappointment that it won't be "all new on TNGA." That doesn't matter to 98% of buyers.

I'm just not sure why Toyota bothered with GA-L, if it's only going to underpin LC, LS and LF-1.

 

[Gecko]

Worth noting that if you take the hp/L ratio of the current 2.0T and apply to a 2.4 or 2.5L I4, you get ~295hp and ~315lb-ft of torque. It's not scientific at all, but but in theory, those numbers would make the car a lot of fun and be best in class for power, I think.

 

[Levi]

So is Lexus going the way of Infiniti with FWD cars only (except LC flagship)?

If they at least bring back the IS F (becasue no more GS F) and manual IS 350 like the Mark X, or at the very least (but this makes a lot of sense) an IS 500h in addition to the IS 300h...