spwolf

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If I was at Lexus, I would have to figure out a way to get these products faster to market without sacrificing quality. The fact is this vehicle is so late its not funny. The BMW X6 is in its THIRD generation. Look I am not at all a fan of coupe SUV's but from a business standpoint this is where the market has gone. Lexus should have a NX/RX coupe and a LF-1 by now. Again what perplexes me is these vehicles are not all new from the ground up. They are mix matches of existing parts. The Q8 is a Cayenne/Urus blend for example.
Problem with coupe versions of existing products such as RX and NX is that they do not want to do it. Maybe they dont see the demand in markets Lexus sells well?

As to the Q8 and Cayenne, that is probably more similar to Rav4 and NX, as supposed to LF-1 and LS for instance.
What would be simpler is something like RX and RX-C where they would be developed together and that would make it much cheaper, but again, they do not want to do that.
 

ssun30

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If rumors were true the V35A hybrid delay is also responsible for the delay of the Tundra. I honestly don't understand why this system is under development for so long. It's either poor planning or it's vastly different from anything they have right now. Given their track record I tend to believe it's the former.

The multistage THS with 8GR-FXS was launched in 2017. This system is supposed to be modular so V35A should be a direct upgrade over the ICE component. They don't have any valid excuse here: the old 600h system based on the 2UR-FSE launched only one year after the 1UR-FSE LS460. So with proper planning a LS/LC600h should be here last year, just one year after the LS500.

At this point it's a given Lexus is bad at modularization. It seems any modification to an existing design will require lengthy redesign and testing.
 

mikeavelli

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Problem with coupe versions of existing products such as RX and NX is that they do not want to do it. Maybe they dont see the demand in markets Lexus sells well?

As to the Q8 and Cayenne, that is probably more similar to Rav4 and NX, as supposed to LF-1 and LS for instance.
What would be simpler is something like RX and RX-C where they would be developed together and that would make it much cheaper, but again, they do not want to do that.
We don't know who doesn't want to do it. Is it dealers not asking? Is it something not being presented. The fact is there isn't just demand, there is huge demand in the luxury segment. Coupe and sedan sales are moving to Coupe SUV's. Lexus is not present which is alarming when all the Germans are.
X4
X6
GLC Coupe
GLS Coupe
A8
E Tron Coupe
Q5 Sportback (on the way)
Q3 Sportback
Cayenne Coupe
Macan

I probably missed a couple lol

Please don't correct me on the Q8/Caynne/Urus. They share architecture and engines. From what we have gathered the LF-1 will do the same with the LS/LC.
 

Deusex

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If what you really wanted was the LF-1, the obvious answer would be to ask dealer for lease extension.



From a sales perspective, Lexus doesn't need to match BMW in the number/variety of SUVs. Yes the LF1 is needed but the in-betweener strategy is a model that Lexus can skip with confidence.
How long should we wait? Been already waiting to upgrade my LX and also growing tired of waiting.
 

James

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How long should we wait? Been already waiting to upgrade my LX and also growing tired of waiting.
Well I think it depends on when your lease is over right? I think they will extend it for up to 6 months? Anyone have any concrete answers on that.
 

CRSKTN

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I think the point is to not reward the company.

That said, I think perhaps given the speculated LF1 dimensions, that will definitely qualify as being close to a coupe SUV than a giant X5 with a sloping roofline. It's hard to explain how I feel about it, but if the GLC is Benz building a Coupe SUV, the LF1 could be more of an SUV Coupe (e.g. start from the coupe side if the equation, and transform it into an SUV, vs making a raked SUV and calling it a coupe.)

Low, wide, long, long wheelbase, raked back design, but still qualifying as an SUV. Very curious.
 

Gecko

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We don't know who doesn't want to do it. Is it dealers not asking? Is it something not being presented. The fact is there isn't just demand, there is huge demand in the luxury segment. Coupe and sedan sales are moving to Coupe SUV's. Lexus is not present which is alarming when all the Germans are.
X4
X6
GLC Coupe
GLS Coupe
A8
E Tron Coupe
Q5 Sportback (on the way)
Q3 Sportback
Cayenne Coupe
Macan

I probably missed a couple lol

Please don't correct me on the Q8/Caynne/Urus. They share architecture and engines. From what we have gathered the LF-1 will do the same with the LS/LC.
I think there are going to be two schools of thought here:
1) Lexus should be keeping pace with the market in terms of models and new segments
2) Lexus can do what they want and don't have to do what everyone else does

I actually believe a bit of both. Vehicles like the ES and RX are dominant and it's important for any auto company to have a few things they do well. For Lexus, it's those two. The problem is that as Lexus has sat it out on so many of these new vehicle segments, they are beginning to look sort of irrelevant in the luxury landscape. No four door coupes? Ok. No SUV coupes? Sure. No battery powered cars? Alright. No performance SUVs? Hmm... ok. Limited high performance lineup? Dang, but ok. No sports cars? Jeez.

... but all of those things together? It looks like Lexus is sitting on the sidelines while BMW, Mercedes and Audi play ball. The only segments where Lexus really plays are traditional sedans, crossovers, coupes, two BOF SUVs and hybrids. The luxury landscape is very different now than it was 10 years ago and Lexus needs to meet that new normal - even if they do it in their own way.

I do not think that Lexus needs to necessarily play the game the same way as the Germans, and I think the LF-1 will be a flagship, performance CUV and CUV coupe all in one package. But I also think they need something else dramatic and less expensive that is similar for around $45-60k... but doing so would upset Lexus bread and butter NX and RX.

I also believe that if Lexus can invest more significantly in the next gen ES to create something like the 2021 TLX - performance AWD option, dedicated performance engine option, better differentiation from the Avalon/Camry - they can cover the midsize space more effectively and profitably. Give it a long hood and a curvy roofline, and you can pickup some people looking for a four door coupe while keeping the traditional ES base. You could make similar strides with the NX and RX.

We talk a lot about Lexus product delays and timing, but I think Lexus can solve a lot of these problems and holes if we see a similar improvement in Lexus' transition to TNGA as we saw in Toyota's. There are more unknowns with Lexus, which is frustrating, but I also want to hope that the extra time it's taking will pay off with a new round of TNGA hardware and software that elevates Lexus products over their Toyota siblings.

I think the next gen NX and RX are going to be make it or break it products. If they simply restyle the Highlander/Rav4 and come to market with the same engines, I'll have to fully close the "Lexus" chapter of my life. That will be it for me. But on the contrary, TNGA is a strong blueprint to create some truly kick ass next gen products through stiff, capable, flexible platforms and part sharing. I think about an RX or NX with an upgraded engine and torque vectoring AWD. Talking here about new V8s and turbo hybrids on GA-L is exciting. CUV coupes and four door coupes are largely just styling exercises, and things that can probably be covered with more design execution like we saw in the LS, LC and LF-1. I think the ES was sort of botched with a late term cancellation for the GS, so I hope we see more growth in the ES line in the future. This IS refresh is, however, going to be hard to swallow.

With all of that said, while Lexus has done a lot of stupid things over the last decade, seeing how strong and competitive TNGA has made Toyota gives me hope that similar changes will happen at Lexus, even if they're delayed. I think the next gen NX and RX, as well as the execution of the LF-1, will be the best indicators of whether or not there's anything left in this brand or if they're going to fall by the wayside like Acura, Infiniti, Lincoln and so many others.
 

James

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So most seem disappointed by the IS at least in some regard so Lexus any news on an LF1? I truly need something from you that I can be excited about in the somewhat near term. Competition keeps getting better and Lexus has way too many old models in the lineup. I mean honestly the only new model I have any interest in right now is an LS (not counting LC,GSF). We need this LF1 and we need it badly. I know you like your secrets Lexus but we need news please give us more news that we can actually say this will come out at this time.
 

spwolf

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I just don’t ever see the ES being much more than what it is now as they have a trusted audience who buys the ES for being large and comfy.
i think it will get better. PHEV with that e-axle will make it behave like RWD vehicle, and tech and quality inside will improve as well.
 

ssun30

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So if the V35 hybrid system (at least for TNGA-F) is a single motor parallel hybrid, instead of direct replacing the 8GR-FXS in the 500h system, what's the point of developing the multi-stage then...

Not saying it's a bad thing. I actually want to see the '600h' or whatever they call it to be a P2 layout instead of multi-stage PS, as it paves the way for a future THS-R system for F cars.
 

spwolf

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So if the V35 hybrid system (at least for TNGA-F) is a single motor parallel hybrid, instead of direct replacing the 8GR-FXS in the 500h system, what's the point of developing the multi-stage then...

Not saying it's a bad thing. I actually want to see the '600h' or whatever they call it to be a P2 layout instead of multi-stage PS, as it paves the way for a future THS-R system for F cars.
did you read somewhere it will be their first single motor system?
 
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