Next-Generation Lexus CT to be a Compact Crossover?

spwolf

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Another interesting tidbit - prototype has been spotted in Belgium where Toyota's HQ for Europe is, and they have been followed by Lexus NX, which is just a tad bigger vehicle. Both C-HR and Lexus version are likely developed together.
 

corradoMR2

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In the NA, if they made CX 2.0t and make it same as NX 2.0t then the price difference would be $1k-2k max and then everyone will complain how it is same price and ask why does it exist.

This is the upcoming CX model that is due next year and sits underneath the NX.

It is in addition to not replacing the CT200

The CT will continue in its current form until the next generation in 18/19.


BTW, not so sure the "CX" moniker is available for trademark under the Lexus brand due to Mazda's CX-x and the Citroen CX which immediately come to mind. I remember three years ago when we discussed the NX would have been called CX but it didn't happen because of the trademark...
 

spwolf

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BTW, not so sure the "CX" moniker is available for trademark under the Lexus brand due to Mazda's CX-x and the Citroen CX which immediately come to mind. I remember three years ago when we discussed the NX would have been called CX but it didn't happen because of the trademark...

yeah, who knows what they will call it but obviously NX would have never been called CX because there will be another SUV thats based on same platform as CT :). Heck, I would not be surprised if we get Yaris based SUV in 2 years, since this is basically Q3 sized (Q3 has smaller wheelbase than C-HR).

It would be interesting to see the weight of C-HR Hybrid compared to NX300h. I assume there will be huge difference while their wheelbases are very similar (2,660mm vs 2,640mm).
 
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BTW, not so sure the "CX" moniker is available for trademark under the Lexus brand due to Mazda's CX-x and the Citroen CX which immediately come to mind. I remember three years ago when we discussed the NX would have been called CX but it didn't happen because of the trademark...


I am not sure how they will get around existing nameplates but the upcoming sub NX is definitely called CX and is due for release next year.

CT was pushed back because this was considered more important and a better use of engineering resources (especially in the European market)
 

corradoMR2

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I am not sure how they will get around existing nameplates but the upcoming sub NX is definitely called CX and is due for release next year.

CT was pushed back because this was considered more important and a better use of engineering resources (especially in the European market)

If you look at the latest name registrations done by Lexus in N. America and Australia for example, they have been done about 20-24 months prior to launch (CT Jul 2009, NX Oct 2012, RC Jan 2013). I haven't seen or heard yet of Lexus trademarking the "CX" name in these markets so for a MY 2017 launch, this would be late already. Is CX registered in Europe?
 

spwolf

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I am not sure how they will get around existing nameplates but the upcoming sub NX is definitely called CX and is due for release next year.

CT was pushed back because this was considered more important and a better use of engineering resources (especially in the European market)

Name is not important anyway. I dont think CT was pushed back at all, it is being done together with next Corolla Hatchback, Auris. So we should see it by the end of next year if not sooner.

CX's sister car is coming in 3 weeks at Geneva Auto show, Toyota C-HR. It is very late entry by Toyota to the class, only VW is slower.
 

spwolf

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CT is coming in 2019

Is there rest of the pic? I find it very strange if GS would get timely release, 2 years after facelift, while CT would have to wait 5 years after facelift and have 8 year product cycle, where Toyota "version" would have 2 major versions released by then.

Especially because it is based on Auris thats coming out by the end of 2017. CX also would come year after Toyota C-HR, which doesnt make much sense but it isnt too much time after.

There is also a question of vehicle being introduced vs going on sale in the USA.

Also, ES got refresh in 2015, that pic shows mid 2016 for refresh.
 
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Is there rest of the pic? I find it very strange if GS would get timely release, 2 years after facelift, while CT would have to wait 5 years after facelift and have 8 year product cycle, where Toyota "version" would have 2 major versions released by then.

Especially because it is based on Auris thats coming out by the end of 2017. CX also would come year after Toyota C-HR, which doesnt make much sense but it isnt too much time after.

There is also a question of vehicle being introduced vs going on sale in the USA.

Also, ES got refresh in 2015, that pic shows mid 2016 for refresh.

The picture goes out to 2020 but it is obviously confidential information. I have shown you that part as most of the models have been released and/or announced and to show that the car is called CX.

This information was shown in 2013 so it is entirely possible that timing will move around a bit, as you mentioned with the ES.

I am not sure why GS would have such a short cycle. First generation ran 98 - 05 and second 05 - 12 so 5/6 years seems very quick.

7 years for the CT is way to long especially with only one body variant and engine. I was told that engineering resources were moved from NG CT to the CX as it was seen as a much higher volume selling vehicle. I just think TMC/Lexus need more resources not to be constantly delaying product releases.

Finally I understand that the new CT is based on the new Toyota/Lexus FWD modular platform of which Prius is the first vehicle to be released on.
 

spwolf

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The picture goes out to 2020 but it is obviously confidential information. I have shown you that part as most of the models have been released and/or announced and to show that the car is called CX.

This information was shown in 2013 so it is entirely possible that timing will move around a bit, as you mentioned with the ES.

I am not sure why GS would have such a short cycle. First generation ran 98 - 05 and second 05 - 12 so 5/6 years seems very quick.

7 years for the CT is way to long especially with only one body variant and engine. I was told that engineering resources were moved from NG CT to the CX as it was seen as a much higher volume selling vehicle. I just think TMC/Lexus need more resources not to be constantly delaying product releases.

Finally I understand that the new CT is based on the new Toyota/Lexus FWD modular platform of which Prius is the first vehicle to be released on.

For GS, it would be opportunity cost - they have new platform, use it to gain more sales, profit and not make its sales dwindle by having some crazy long life cycle that makes no sense. It is also reasonable "halo" sedan for the rest of the brand, something that can sell in larger number than LS/LC and show

Considering it takes them 3-4 years to build a new vehicle from grounds up, and considerably less to make a sister vehicle to Toyota, it is quite likely that things got shuffled around since 3 years ago. ES data being wrong is strange since 3rd year facelift is a common thing in Toyota world, it is expected. I wonder whats the TX status now compared to then, that and CX are way bigger priorities than CT itself. Another missing thing is no mention of LX in the graph, that got substantial facelift, far bigger than usual and that would have started before 2013.

I would not be surprised if CX and TX got pushed forward, especially since Toyota C-HR is going to start production some 6 months from now. That seems quicker than expected, and considering that C-HR gets trailed by Lexus NX during testing in Europe, I wonder if CX is coming sooner than 2018. Opportunity cost again. Same goes for TX.

Lexus brand is growing quickly, 4 brand new vehicles added between 2014 and 2017 is a lot. There is no lack of effort certainly... CT, CX, NX, ES, IS, RC, RX, GS, GX, LS, LX, LC as well as GS-F, RC-F.
 

mikeavelli

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I speculate they might be moving to a 5/6 year GS cycle b/c from what i have heard the LS is going to be really in a different direction than in the past and they anticipate losing quite a bit of loyal fans. The GS from my understanding will grow in size to try to keep some of those loyal buyers (I've even heard LWB so maybe a future China market car is shared here). While I think the GS size is near perfect, it is quite a bit smaller inside than a 5 series for example.
 
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Gecko

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I don't think Lexus can technically use the name CX, as Mazda obviously does - CX-3, CX-5, CX-9