New 2020 Prius PHEV/Prius Prime

mmcartalk

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The only inference that I get from the article is that the Model 3 is the new poster child for green vehicles
Only if one has regular access to an adequate charging-outlet. Otherwise, traditional hybrids will continue to be big sellers.
 
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Only if one has regular access to an adequate charging-outlet. Otherwise, traditional hybrids will continue to be big sellers.
For its audience, I'm pretty sure anyone getting a TM3 or other Tesla has a charging outlet. Its rapid sales growth is greater than anything hybrid right now.
 

Motor

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Toyota Prius Prime is scarce at dealerships, leaving demand for its plug-in on the tabl
The Toyota Prius Prime might offer only 25 miles of electric range. And its gas engine might come on randomly and too often making its EV status debateable. But there’s no denying that the Toyota plug-in hybrid outsells every other EV and PHEV in the US except for the Tesla Model 3 (Model 3 wins there, by a factor of 7). Now there’s evidence on PriusChat.com that Toyota isn’t offering nearly enough Prius Primes to meet demand.

A customer in Austin, Tex. wanting to buy a Prius Prime, reports:

Today after searching around Texas dealerships, including Austin where we live, the Prime seems to be in short or non-supply at every dealer. Is this how it is everywhere? Any particular reason for this? I did read that people feel dealers are sticking it to them on Prime prices, sometimes charging a premium over MSRP. Or even telling customers they don’t sell the Prime.

The dip in availability and sales could be explained by an uneven rollout of the 2020 version of the Prime. While the 2020 model’s powertrain is unchanged, the new version of the vehicle now provides space for five passengers—correcting a major shortcoming of the outgoing four-passenger model. Since the Prius Prime has a large battery hacked into the rear trunk floor and Toyota didn’t originally want to retrofit the car for the increased weight, it just knocked out its 5th seat. That was a huge loss, particularly for families.

It’s remarkable to consider that, regardless of the supply constraints, the Prius Prime is outselling EVs like the Chevrolet Bolt and Nissan Leaf. Toyota is on track to sell about 21,000 Primes this year, down from 2018’s mark of 27,600.

A PriusChat user in Florida argues, “If they stocked this car, understood it, and talked about it with customers,” then they “would not be able to keep up with the demand.”

A commenter in Chicago says that Primes are now “scarcer than hen’s teeth.” And another Austin-ite says there’s no question about demand based on seeing “tons of Leafs” and lots of Teslas driving around “like roaches here.” That’s corroborated by a Tampa-based customer who sees “way, way, way, way more Teslas than Primes.”Toyota Prius Prime is scarce at dealerships, leaving demand for its plug-in on the table

These reports about lack of dealership support for Toyota’s only plug-in car come weeks before Toyota unveils the new 2021 RAV4 Plug-in Hybrid this month at the Los Angeles Auto Show.

As the driver of a 2014 RAV4 EV for three years — I loved that EV — it’s disappointing that the affordable, ultra-popular crossover is not offered in pure electric form. Nonetheless, if a mere 10 percent of RAV4 buyers choose the plug-in hybrid—roughly the take rate for Prime among Priuses—Toyota would sell 40,000 to 50,000 of them per year.
 

Will1991

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Sometimes really seems like Toyota did everything for the PHEV to fail... 4 seats, small boot...
Ironically the market seems very willing on them, here in Portugal I see many more “Prime’s” over regular 4G Prius... And even in Europe as a whole, they said it was only 1% of sales, but around 40% of Prius buyers went for the PHEV... I bet even they don’t believe a RAV4 Hybrid buyer would go to a Prime to get a PHEV
 

Levi

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Toyota followed an agenda rather than customer demand. It looks like they can't hold to it anymore and have to follow demand. Toyota PHEV and BEV sales will crush rivals, as they are going for mass consumers, not status seakers.
 

spwolf

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Toyota followed an agenda rather than customer demand. It looks like they can't hold to it anymore and have to follow demand. Toyota PHEV and BEV sales will crush rivals, as they are going for mass consumers, not status seakers.
hm, but customer demand is still status seeker and not mass customer... This is how Tesla sells so well and why Volt is discontinued.

So unless Toyota adapts to this thinking (and looking at Mirai, they did), their sales will be due to the incentives and not real demand. Just like it is for most mass customer EV/Phev vehicles right now.
 

spwolf

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Sometimes really seems like Toyota did everything for the PHEV to fail... 4 seats, small boot...
Ironically the market seems very willing on them, here in Portugal I see many more “Prime’s” over regular 4G Prius... And even in Europe as a whole, they said it was only 1% of sales, but around 40% of Prius buyers went for the PHEV... I bet even they don’t believe a RAV4 Hybrid buyer would go to a Prime to get a PHEV
Hm, European sales of Prime are almost not existent at all... it is not even on charts. But whole Prius is a lot less important in Europe since we have Yaris, Corolla, CHR, Rav4, Camry hybrids now and with 1.5l, 1.8l, 2.0l and 2.5l engines...
 

Will1991

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Hm, European sales of Prime are almost not existent at all... it is not even on charts. But whole Prius is a lot less important in Europe since we have Yaris, Corolla, CHR, Rav4, Camry hybrids now and with 1.5l, 1.8l, 2.0l and 2.5l engines...
But we've the info, for Europe they have 4240 "regular" Prius and 2003 PHEV's (see: https://newsroom.toyota.eu/toyota-corolla-lexus-ux-and-hybrid-sales-lift-toyota-to-53-market-share-in-europe-with-838000-vehicle-sales-jan-to-sept/ ), 50% of costumers looking for a Prius is willing to pay more for it, even with a tiny boot and only 4 seats (only now are showing up 5 seats version), this for me would be a clear indication of how much European's want a Toyota PHEV... They just need to get this powertrain to the Corolla and to the CHR and it would certainly sell a lot more.
 

spwolf

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But we've the info, for Europe they have 4240 "regular" Prius and 2003 PHEV's (see: https://newsroom.toyota.eu/toyota-corolla-lexus-ux-and-hybrid-sales-lift-toyota-to-53-market-share-in-europe-with-838000-vehicle-sales-jan-to-sept/ ), 50% of costumers looking for a Prius is willing to pay more for it, even with a tiny boot and only 4 seats (only now are showing up 5 seats version), this for me would be a clear indication of how much European's want a Toyota PHEV... They just need to get this powertrain to the Corolla and to the CHR and it would certainly sell a lot more.
That is tiny, less than Prius+ which is very old now. It is so low that it does not fit charts for PHEVs that EU commission releases.

But there is a reason for it - they dont have to do it, and they lose money on Prime, so they dont try to sell it. Here in Eastern Europe, Prime is very expensive and neither Prius or Prime get any incentives - so they dont consider them "core" models and dont want to sell them hard.

It is all about price for such cars, so price difference between Prius and Prius Prime here is around €7k-10k.

So look at it this way - Prius and Prius Prime are 3.5% of Toyota Hybrid sales in Europe in 2019. I think that tells you everything.
 

Ian Schmidt

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But whole Prius is a lot less important in Europe since we have Yaris, Corolla, CHR, Rav4, Camry hybrids now and with 1.5l, 1.8l, 2.0l and 2.5l engines...
I'm not convinced the Prius makes a lot of sense anymore given you can get the same Toyota hybrid technology in a variety of generally better cars. They need to make it have a unique drivetrain again, and they already kind of blew their chance there by having full BEV debut elsewhere.
 

Will1991

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2021 Prius Prime should be a facelift... Let's wait a bit more, but I'm not getting my hopes all that high for major differences... If any...

Well, I find it a bit hard to understand that comment from a supposed Toyota Engineer... If Toyota's infotainment was a really "Closed" group, how would they managed to offer different solutions for different markets (see ChDM Corolla, they're able to get a Prius Prime/Tesla like infotainment)? Also, for a closed group of Japanese farts, they really managed to come up with a decent and updated new system for the HighLander/Venza... Not to mention RX infotainment that now has CA and a touch interface as well... And the TRI-AD company established 2 years ago...
 
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2021 Prius Prime should be a facelift... Let's wait a bit more, but I'm not getting my hopes all that high for major differences... If any...
No, the facelift happened in 2019, at least for the NA market.
Well, I find it a bit hard to understand that comment from a supposed Toyota Engineer... If Toyota's infotainment was a really "Closed" group, how would they managed to offer different solutions for different markets (see ChDM Corolla, they're able to get a Prius Prime/Tesla like infotainment)? Also, for a closed group of Japanese farts, they really managed to come up with a decent and updated new system for the HighLander/Venza... Not to mention RX infotainment that now has CA and a touch interface as well... And the TRI-AD company established 2 years ago...
Who knows, Reddit could be made up. But it is factual that when you see JDM cars, most of the interiors, you don't see a headunit. Perhaps some of that changed in the past few years, where North America has more say as to how the systems are designed. Obviously, we don't know, but figure that TTC would evaluate the systems before they're implemented.
 

spwolf

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2021 Prius Prime should be a facelift... Let's wait a bit more, but I'm not getting my hopes all that high for major differences... If any...

Well, I find it a bit hard to understand that comment from a supposed Toyota Engineer... If Toyota's infotainment was a really "Closed" group, how would they managed to offer different solutions for different markets (see ChDM Corolla, they're able to get a Prius Prime/Tesla like infotainment)? Also, for a closed group of Japanese farts, they really managed to come up with a decent and updated new system for the HighLander/Venza... Not to mention RX infotainment that now has CA and a touch interface as well... And the TRI-AD company established 2 years ago...
Because it is not true... Since 15 years ago they split systems to be regional, so USA, Europe and Japan have different units developed in local region.

I mean in any case, you still end up with this result that you have today anyway.

European system looks really crappy, they are late on Android update compared to USA and graphics still look bad desired new software and features.
 

suxeL

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While I dont want to push a reddit rumor, but is this reason why the same model (for instance the current gen ES) have different headunit upgrade paths?

Select MY19 ESes were mfged with Carplay but not Android Auto. After Oct Production, ESes got both.

Australia, Spain, and other regions were able to get a free software update to enable those select Non android Auto vehicles with Android Auto.

US were told no upgrade would be made available.
 

spwolf

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While I dont want to push a reddit rumor, but is this reason why the same model (for instance the current gen ES) have different headunit upgrade paths?

Select MY19 ESes were mfged with Carplay but not Android Auto. After Oct Production, ESes got both.

Australia, Spain, and other regions were able to get a free software update to enable those select Non android Auto vehicles with Android Auto.

US were told no upgrade would be made available.
they are different systems so different rules.

In Europe, you have to pay extra for Android Auto update in new Corolla, and availability should have started this summer only.
 
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