MKV Toyota Supra Master Thread (2021 gets power bump + 4cyl model)

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View attachment 4170

Link below says 520ps or roughly 513hp.

513hp would indicate the S58. I don’t see the Supra getting the S58 if the car is expected to run until 2025. There is no way BMW would create a cheaper M2 competitor.

I personally believe that MY2022 will be the last year as a BMW Supra. The Supra will get the S58 in that year and the M2 will debut in MY2023 to take its spot in the lineup as a Cayman competitor. The limited 3 year run of the Supra is why they cut costs literally everywhere and why it wouldn’t make sense for Toyota to name this car something else (such as Celica) for it to end 3 years later when the “real” Supra launched. This allows Toyota to market the car as an improvement over the J29/A90 when MY2023 Supra leverages in house or Mazda architecture.

That, or the Supra is stuck in the M2’s shadow until 2025 which means sales would dramatically fall off when the M2 launches for MY2023.
 

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513hp would indicate the S58. I don’t see the Supra getting the S58 if the car is expected to run until 2025. There is no way BMW would create a cheaper M2 competitor.

I personally believe that MY2022 will be the last year as a BMW Supra. The Supra will get the S58 in that year and the M2 will debut in MY2023 to take its spot in the lineup as a Cayman competitor. The limited 3 year run of the Supra is why they cut costs literally everywhere and why it wouldn’t make sense for Toyota to name this car something else (such as Celica) for it to end 3 years later when the “real” Supra launched. This allows Toyota to market the car as an improvement over the J29/A90 when MY2023 Supra leverages in house or Mazda architecture.

That, or the Supra is stuck in the M2’s shadow until 2025 which means sales would dramatically fall off when the M2 launches for MY2023.
It's going to use the B58 according to insider A70. Toyota is feel to tune their version as they please.

Not according to the bimmerpost insider. Stop of production for the Zupra twins is 10/2025, so last model year is 2026. The facelift for both is hinted for the 2023 model year.

Oh shocker, falling sales towards the end. Insert most niche product. 😅
 
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It's going to use the B58 according to insider A70. Toyota is feel to tune their version as they please.

Not according to the bimmerpody insider. Stop of production for the Zupra twins is 10/2025, so last model year is 2026. The facelift for both is hinted for the 2023 model year.

Oh shocker, falling sales towards the end. Insert most niche product. 😅
How when it barely meets emissions as is? Unfortunately, the G29 and A90 doesn’t have provisions for the particle filter that allow the G20 and G22 to have the B58D (detuned to 374hp) in Europe.

Both what I said and what bimmerforums can be right. Also, I’m pretty sure the Z4 timeline has been changed judging that the same insider removed LCI information from his posts and won’t make any further comment on it.

It’s no shocker, it’s just an excuse for Toyota not to have to develop the A100. They don’t devote development efforts towards a product and are somehow surprised it doesn’t sell then discontinue it.
 
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How when it barely meets emissions as is? Unfortunately, the G29 and A90 doesn’t have provisions for the particle filter that allow the G20 and G22 to have the B58D (detuned to 374hp) in Europe.

Both what I said and what bimmerforums can be right. Also, I’m pretty sure the Z4 timeline has been changed judging that the same insider removed LCI information from his posts and won’t make any further comment on it.

It’s no shocker, it’s just an excuse for Toyota not to have to develop the A100. They don’t devote development efforts towards a product and are somehow surprised it doesn’t sell then discontinue it.
Just a thought, but maybe the GRMN Zupra won't be sold in Europe? EU sales of the Zupra is already piss poor. Why throw a bunch of money into making it meet EU standards when they are barely moving any units as is. Just focus on strong markets like the Japan, U.S. ect.

I think you are reading too much into things. Once things have become common knowledge it gets taken down. As stated by the insider himself. Hence why they still don't have inside info for the Zupra from 2018-2019 up. Don't feel too special now. I have also posted questions in the past and haven't received a reply every time.

Idk, only time will tell.
 
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Just a thought, but maybe the GRMN Zupra won't be sold in Europe? EU sales of the Zupra is already piss poor. Why throw a bunch of money into making it meet EU standards when they are barely moving any units as is. Just focus on strong markets like the Japan, U.S. ect.

I think you are reading too much into things. Once things have become common knowledge it gets taken down. As stated by the insider himself. Hence why they still don't have inside info for the Zupra from 2018-2019 up.

Idk, only time will tell.
But it isn’t just the GRMN, the B58D Supra/Z4 aren’t sold there either because of this. The Z4 even sells relatively well there.

Things don’t just get taken down there if it’s still true especially after several other models have had revised timelines recently. You know how detailed the “Future Model Information” thread is and this is far from common knowledge.
 

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But it isn’t just the GRMN, the B58D Supra/Z4 aren’t sold there either because of this. The Z4 even sells relatively well there.

Things don’t just get taken down there if it’s still true especially after several other models have had revised timelines recently. You know how detailed the “Future Model Information” thread is and this is far from common knowledge.
Exactly, that farther proves my point of the EU get the short end of the stick. Ok... and what does the Z4 selling well in the EU have to do with the Toyota Zupra?

Yes it does, go look at the info that was reposted onto SupraMKV that was later taken down on bimmerpost. Old sh*t gets removed all the time. Otherwise OP would be a mile long.
 
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Exactly, that farther proves my point of the EU get the short end of the stick. Ok... and what does the Z4 selling well in the EU have to do with the Toyota Zupra?

Yes it does, go look at the info that was reposted onto SupraMKV that was later taken down on bimmerpost. Old sh*t gets removed all the time. Otherwise OP would be a mile long.
The G29/J29 chassis doesn’t have provisions for the particle filter. You claim it is because they don’t well so they didn’t devote the effort to meet emissions. But they do sell well so it would have been worth it and goes against your narrative. I do agree it could very not be sold in the EU, which is just another example of Toyota’s self fulfilling prophecy of not supporting their own products. 335hp in top trim for all EU is disingenuous, especially after being out of production for 20 years.

2022 is new information. It is in the future. It is still very relevant. The Z4 info on the main post on bimmerforums was edited months after the insiders last post on SupraMKV. That post is so detailed, removing LCI information doesn’t happen by mistake. I even asked if it was on purpose and no response.
 

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The G29/J29 chassis doesn’t have provisions for the particle filter. You claim it is because they don’t well so they didn’t devote the effort to meet emissions. But they do sell well so it would have been worth it and goes against your narrative. I do agree it could very not be sold in the EU, which is just another example of Toyota’s self fulfilling prophecy of not supporting their own products. 335hp in top trim for all EU is disingenuous, especially after being out of production for 20 years.

2022 is new information. It is in the future. It is still very relevant. The Z4 info on the main post on bimmerforums was edited months after the insiders last post on SupraMKV. That post is so detailed, removing LCI information doesn’t happen by mistake. I even asked if it was on purpose and no response.
What I saying is the A90 Toyota Zupra isn't selling all that great in the EU. Hence why Toyota may not plan to develop and sell the GRMN Zupra in the EU. The G29 Z4 is a decent seller (at least in it's 1st year) in the EU. Again, what does that have to do with Toyota's future plans for their version? Paraphrasing here, but it's worth noting that the head of BMW's M division has stated they are not planning on doing a Z4M because its such a small piece of the pie. What we have been told is the GT4 and GRMN Zupra will have some version of the B58 under the hood. There are currently no plans for a S58 Zupra, but who knows? They could drop one in towards the end as a one off special edition.

The insider also posted info in 2018 about Zupra color choices, standard engine choices and options and it was also removed within a few months. You aren't all that special cupcake. Again, I myself have also posted questions in the past and haven't received a reply every time. You can believe what you want. The last time I chatted with those within Toyota (just a few weeks ago) the current A90 Zupra will come to an end in late 2025. 2026 will be the last year model.

According to you the next Supra will magically appear in 2023. The A100 is still in very early development stage. The whiteboard planning phase. They don't even have a running test mule yet, which is still pretty early stage development. And it may not even happen at all depending on how current events plays out, so let's not get ahead of ourselves .
 
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What I saying is the A90 Toyota Zupra isn't selling all that great in the EU. Hence why Toyota may not plan to develop and sell the GRMN Zupra in the EU. The G29 Z4 is a decent seller (at least in it's 1st year) in the EU. Again, what does that have to do with Toyota's future plans for their version? Paraphrasing here, but it's worth noting that the head of BMW's M division has stated they are not planning on doing a Z4M because its such a small piece of the pie. What we have been told is the GT4 and GRMN Zupra will have some version of the B58 under the hood. There are currently no plans for a S58 Zupra, but who knows? They could drop one in towards the end as a one off special edition.

The insider also posted info in 2018 about Zupra color choices, standard engine choices and options and it was also removed within a few months. You aren't all that special cupcake. Again, I myself have also posted questions in the past and haven't received a reply every time. You can believe what you want. The last time I chatted with those within Toyota (just a few weeks ago) the current A90 Zupra will come to an end in late 2025. 2026 will be the last year model.

According to you the next Supra will magically appear in 2023. The A100 is still in very early development stage. The whiteboard planning phase. They don't even have a running test mule yet, which is still pretty early stage development. And it may not even happen at all depending on how current events plays out, so let's not get ahead of ourselves .
You’re not understanding. I am not saying the insider is wrong, I am saying that plans change. Yeah I have been on SupraMKV since 2018 too big guy and I know how legitimate those leaks are, but things change.

I posted 2 theories, fully read my posts before responding. Thanks.
 

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You’re not understanding. I am not saying the insider is wrong, I am saying that plans change. Yeah I have been on SupraMKV since 2018 too big guy and I know how legitimate those leaks are, but things change.

I posted 2 theories, fully read my posts before responding. Thanks.
What am I not understanding? I addressed each of your points. You do know BMW didn't even want to do a sports car with Toyota in the 1st place. Despite having decent sales in the 1st year (still way down compared to the E85 & E89) its reported that the Z4 will get the axed after its current life cycle. Besides a facelift, they have pretty much given up the car. Unless some future deal is struck up ($$$$); Toyota is pretty much stuck with the B58. However, as stated by the BP insider, they are free to tune or mod it as they see fit. According to BP insider, the updated B58D has a different block number and has stronger internals vs the B58C, so I think that's a good starting place for any future high performance version.

So then you are aware that some of us actually brings the goods to the table vs going on and on about conspiracy theories. Look, I like how enthusiastic you are, but someone needs to bring you back to reality.

 
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What am I not understanding? I addressed each of your points. You do know BMW didn't even want to do a sports car with Toyota in the 1st place. Despite having decent sales in the 1st (still way down compared to the E85 & E89) its reported that Z4 will get the axed after its current life cycle. Besides a facelift, they have pretty much given up the car. So Toyota is pretty much stuck with the B58. However, as stated by the BP insider, they are free to tune or mod it as they see fit. Accoring to BP insider, the updated B58D has a different block number and has stronger internals vs the B58C, so I think that's a good starting place for any future high performance version.

So then you are aware that some of us actually brings the goods to the table vs going on and on about conspiracy theories. Look, I like how enthusiastic you are, but someone needs to bring you back to reality.

Yep, I am a very active member on both those forums, like I said earlier.

I just believe the Z4 timetable has changed since ynguldyn's last post on that forum back in May. In late June several other model timelines changed so how it is crazy to think the Z4/Supra timetable has also changed? Come back to reality, things change.
 
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Yep, I am a very active member on both those forums, like I said earlier.

I just believe the Z4 timetable has changed since ynguldyn's last post on that forum back in May. In late June several other model timelines changed also. I don't understand how else to communicate that. Things change.
Yes things can change on a dime. WW3 could start next year and Toyota could stop production on all niche product altogether. Again, what I am telling you is the timeline has not change since I last spoke to those within Toyota, but believe what you want. Peace 👍
 
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Yes things can change on a dime. WW3 could start next year and Toyota could stop production on all niche product altogether. Again, what I am telling you is the timeline has not change since I last spoke to those within Toyota, but believe what you want. Peace 👍
Yeah it could, I don't understand why you're so childish about this. Insider information changes all the time, no one is right or wrong until an official announcement is made.
 
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BMW lifecycle approach does apply to the Supra.

The current model lineup is going to continue until June 2022. In July 2022, the new facelifted version will start production. Right now it seems the facelift is not going to significantly change the hardware: worldwide, there will still be four models like today (two B48s and two B58s), but they will likely use refreshed versions of the same engines, with the US market getting two models out of four with the higher spec B48 and B58. I can't say yet what performance the engine updates will bring but judging from recent history, the improvements will be small. However, we should expect the refresh to add the 48V electrical system, which is known to provide a small performance bump on its own.

There will be no major updates and no new models before July 2022. Some tuning, maybe creature comforts - sure, just to keep things fresh. But that's all.

This is a post by ynguldyn on SupraMKV who is BMW insider for those who do not frequent BP or SupraMKV. According to this the US will get 2 trims, GR Supra 2.0 and GR Supra 3.0. Therefore, a GRMN Supra won't be produced if we assume the GRMN model sits above the GR Supra 3.0.
 
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