MKV Toyota Supra Master Thread (2021 gets power bump + 4cyl model)

Levi

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How do you figure? I haven't heard that from anywhere.
Science?
 
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The Z won't do jack against the Supra.
Who knows, but I think the C8 did more against the Supra. The C8 demand is still there, while Toyota has incentives for remaining 2020s. For the Z, it could be the same story, but the Z still has a following too. If it is priced right, I can see 2002 happening again, when the 350z was brought back.
 
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Who knows, but I think the C8 did more against the Supra. The C8 demand is still there, while Toyota has incentives for remaining 2020s. For the Z, it could be the same story, but the Z still has a following too. If it is priced right, I can see 2002 happening again, when the 350z was brought back.
The C8 also costs at least 10 thousand dollars more than the Supra. Then, if one were to equip a C8 to have comparable features against the Supra it costs well north of 75 or even 80 thousand dollars.

The Supra demand is still there too, but note that the Supra is an even more specialized car than the C8. The sales numbers even prove it. The Corvette is the perennial American sports car, meaning, this is a car that many people buy anyways. For what it is, the Supra is holding its own very well against the competition in terms of sales.

The Supra is selling way more than the Z anyways. But, the reason why the Z still exists because you can buy one brand new for under 30 thousand dollars. The only appeal to the Z is the V6 and the manual. Everything else is simply not acceptable. You can't make the same argument about the Supra however. Everything in the Supra is a class (more like two classes) above the Z in terms of engine, transmission, chassis tuning, interior and exterior materials and styling, infotainment, safety, and much more.
 

suxeL

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The C8 also costs at least 10 thousand dollars more than the Supra. Then, if one were to equip a C8 to have comparable features against the Supra it costs well north of 75 or even 80 thousand dollars.

The Supra demand is still there too, but note that the Supra is an even more specialized car than the C8. The sales numbers even prove it. The Corvette is the perennial American sports car, meaning, this is a car that many people buy anyways. For what it is, the Supra is holding its own very well against the competition in terms of sales.

The Supra is selling way more than the Z anyways. But, the reason why the Z still exists because you can buy one brand new for under 30 thousand dollars. The only appeal to the Z is the V6 and the manual. Everything else is simply not acceptable. You can't make the same argument about the Supra however. Everything in the Supra is a class (more like two classes) above the Z in terms of engine, transmission, chassis tuning, interior and exterior materials and styling, infotainment, safety, and much more.
Are you confirming details for the current Z or the upcoming Z? If the later, darn they`re keeping the same powertrain yikes
 

Levi

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Talking like a true BMW fanboy. The Nissan is a 100% Nissan true to its roots. The Supra is the best BMW, Z4 Coupe.


The Supra lacks transaxle to be perfect, and has MacPherson instead of double wishbone.
 
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Are you confirming details for the current Z or the upcoming Z? If the later, darn they`re keeping the same powertrain yikes
I'm only discussing about the current Z. The new Z will probably employ the VR30 twin-turbocharged V6 that's in the Infiniti Q50/Q60. But even then the Q50/Q60 with the V6 is no match compared to the BMW 3-Series and 4-Series with the B58. The Supra takes that engine and cranks it to 11.

The 2020 Supra made "335" horsepower in name (or more specifically at the wheels). It actually made in the neighborhood of 385 to 400/410 horsepower at the crankshaft and made more than 335 horsepower at the wheels.

The 2021 Supra has a whole host of changes that boosts the car by ~50 wheel horsepower. "382" (Toyota's claimed number at the crank) is what's made at the wheels and even then like the 2020 Supra when tested on the dyno the wheel ratings were higher than the claimed crank ratings which are actually the wheel ratings if that makes any sense. Car and Driver's test run with the 2021 Supra ended up with them reaching 388 horsepower to the wheels, and on top of that those numbers could actually be improved on so we could see even higher power figures than that. Now considering that there exists approximately 10-15% drivetrain losses, the 2021 Supra makes around 440 to well over 450 horsepower at the crank.

Don't even get me started about the torque figures that the Supra makes, be it the 2020 or the 2021 model year.

Point is, the only way that the new Z can realistically beat the Supra is only in terms of price.
 
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Talking like a true BMW fanboy. The Nissan is a 100% Nissan true to its roots. The Supra is the best BMW, Z4 Coupe.
Okay? The Supra is true to its roots as well in many ways. But no worries you can enjoy your archaic and sub-par sports car if that's your preference. It's still "true to its roots right"? I'm picking the Supra. All day. Any day.

Also, who said it's a BMW Z4 coupe? Oh just cause you said so? Just goes for show you don't know jack about the Supra and the great lengths that Toyota made to make this car an absolute beast. I guess for people like you simply spitting straight facts about the Supra makes me a BMW fanboy now LOL.

The Supra lacks transaxle to be perfect, and has MacPherson instead of double wishbone.
LMAO. I don't even know how to respond to this I'm dying. 😂😂
 
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The C8 also costs at least 10 thousand dollars more than the Supra. Then, if one were to equip a C8 to have comparable features against the Supra it costs well north of 75 or even 80 thousand dollars.

The Supra demand is still there too, but note that the Supra is an even more specialized car than the C8. The sales numbers even prove it. The Corvette is the perennial American sports car, meaning, this is a car that many people buy anyways. For what it is, the Supra is holding its own very well against the competition in terms of sales.

The Supra is selling way more than the Z anyways. But, the reason why the Z still exists because you can buy one brand new for under 30 thousand dollars. The only appeal to the Z is the V6 and the manual. Everything else is simply not acceptable. You can't make the same argument about the Supra however. Everything in the Supra is a class (more like two classes) above the Z in terms of engine, transmission, chassis tuning, interior and exterior materials and styling, infotainment, safety, and much more.
Supra demand is at a crossroads right now with the 2021s coming soon. But like we've seen here, a lot of dealers still have theirs and many weren't selling because they had markup (YMMV, my local dealer had a $2K adjustment). While yes, the C8 and Supra have their own respective followings, its hard to compare the costs. The Vette starts at $60k, but most Vettes arriving are priced higher with options. AFAIK, C8s are sitting long and Chevy isn't having to put discounts yet. I find it strange that Toyota had to offer 0% and hidden incentives, but that's the reality of today's market.

Also, the current Z is old so of course, a new Supra should sell better than a car with tech from 2008/9. I would hold off judgment until the 400Z or whatever its called to be released and see how they fare (how much the ADMs will be, etc.). That manual might make the Z more appealing than the Supra.
 
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Supra demand is at a crossroads right now with the 2021s coming soon. But like we've seen here, a lot of dealers still have theirs and many weren't selling because they had markup (YMMV, my local dealer had a $2K adjustment). While yes, the C8 and Supra have their own respective followings, its hard to compare the costs. The Vette starts at $60k, but most Vettes arriving are priced higher with options. AFAIK, C8s are sitting long and Chevy isn't having to put discounts yet. I find it strange that Toyota had to offer 0% and hidden incentives, but that's the reality of today's market.
Fair enough. The thing is though that the 2020's and the 2021's have their own appeal, so they should sell at the end regardless of any further discounts or incentives that Toyota includes.

The dealer markup hurt Supra sales as well and is hurting some Chevrolet dealers too. Dealer markup simply destroys the sales of a car. I can understand why Toyota dealers marked up the Launch Edition and it wasn't a terrible reason to do it either because it's such a special car and it's the return of the Supra to North America after an astonishing 20 or so years. However for other Supras it doesn't make any sense to add a dealer markup. Same deal for the Corvette after the first model year as I can understand Chevrolet dealers trying to markup the Corvette as it is the FIRST-EVER mid-engine Corvette model.

Also, the current Z is old so of course, a new Supra should sell better than a car with tech from 2008/9. I would hold off judgment until the 400Z or whatever its called to be released and see how they fare (how much the ADMs will be, etc.). That manual might make the Z more appealing than the Supra.
As for the Z, apparently the interior won't be that much improved and they're just going to stuff in the twin-turbocharged V6 and maybe add a manual. They aren't fully redesigning the car and are doing an extremely heavy reskin that can be mistaken as a redesign. The platform will remain the same.

As for the Supra, well, I've mentioned this before, Toyota is now even more serious on adding a manual model than they were just 6 months ago. They're starting to see that the demand is absolutely insane for a manual Supra. My gut feeling is that it's not a matter of if but a matter of when the manual Supra arrives.

Another tidbit, the Supra GRMN is still being developed as we speak. It's most likely going to have a manual (because every single Toyota GRMN model, even the ones that were offered in automatic only, had a manual), and will derive a lot of technology from the Supra GT4 racecar. What does that mean you may ask? It will have a similar powertrain (we're not sure if it's going to be more or less powerful than the Supra GT4) and a lot of elements will be stripped out of the car to reduce weight, and that won't be all either. Those are just a few elements that we will expectedly see in the Supra GRMN in a few years time.
 

Motor

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Another tidbit, the Supra GRMN is still being developed as we speak. It's most likely going to have a manual (because every single Toyota GRMN model, even the ones that were offered in automatic only, had a manual), and will derive a lot of technology from the Supra GT4 racecar. What does that mean you may ask? It will have a similar powertrain (we're not sure if it's going to be more or less powerful than the Supra GT4) and a lot of elements will be stripped out of the car to reduce weight, and that won't be all either. Those are just a few elements that we will expectedly see in the Supra GRMN in a few years time.
Do you know if Toyota will make a special edition paying homage to the previous generation Supra?
 
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Do you know if Toyota will make a special edition paying homage to the previous generation Supra?
Not sure at the moment. However AFAIK, Toyota will be doing a special edition for each model year throughout the Supra's lifecycle. A mid-cycle refresh should happen in ~2023 if I'm not mistaken so maybe then they will make some changes in terms of styling.
 

ssun30

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I don't understand the MacPherson strut comment. Suspension geometry doesn't dictate handling directly, it's all in the details. Sure the difference between non-independent and independent is huge, but among independent suspensions It's really about execution. Struts aren't automatically worse than double wishbones, otherwise Porsche won't be using them. Rally cars use struts on all four corners and they have the most amazing suspension systems in all types of motorsport.
I feel going with struts on the Supra is helpful for tuners. A more compact suspension makes it easier to work on the engine, which most tuners will be spending their money and time on. More space for big turbos or even V8/V12 swaps (which would be very hard with double wishbone). Tuners would definitely appreciate that.
 
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I don't understand the MacPherson strut comment. Suspension geometry doesn't dictate handling directly, it's all in the details. Sure the difference between non-independent and independent is huge, but among independent suspensions It's really about execution. Struts aren't automatically worse than double wishbones, otherwise Porsche won't be using them. Rally cars use struts on all four corners and they have the most amazing suspension systems in all types of motorsport.
I feel going with struts on the Supra is helpful for tuners. A more compact suspension makes it easier to work on the engine, which most tuners will be spending their money and time on. More space for big turbos or even V8/V12 swaps (which would be very hard with double wishbone). Tuners would definitely appreciate that.
Exactly. Porsche also has simple struts in the front for the Cayman and Boxster, and we all know that they handle beautifully as well.
 

Levi

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Exactly. Porsche also has simple struts in the front for the Cayman and Boxster, and we all know that they handle beautifully as well.
So does the GT86/BRZ. Yet the best handling BEV (Porsche Taycan) has double wishbone. It is all about choice, what is the best for the case. When financials are part of the equation, I automatically rule that decision out.
 
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So does the GT86/BRZ. Yet the best handling BEV (Porsche Taycan) has double wishbone. It is all about choice, what is the best for the case. When financials are part of the equation, I automatically rule that decision out.
Wtf? What does the Taycan have to do with the Supra or the Cayman and Boxster? It's not like Toyota or Porsche put a f*cking torsion beam or a leaf suspension setup in their cars. Like @ssun30 mentioned, some cars have different suspension setups than others because maybe the manufacturer has a certain use purpose for the car in mind or the particular handling characteristics that they wanted to achieve is different than what another manufacturer wants their car to feel like.
 
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