Looking back, was Akio Toyoda the right man for the job?

[Gecko]

And as to the Audi vs VW and Toyota vs Lexus, big difference is in execution. Smaller/cheaper Audi's look a lot like VWs inside, while Lexus has completely different interior design to Toyota. It is not just enough to slap leather on the dash and call it luxury.

As to the engines, there isnt a lot of difference because most Audi's sold in Europe come with 2.0 TDI, shared with Seat, Skoda and VW. Sure, if you live in Europe, you might be one of the few that gets performance A4, but most likely, by far, you will be getting 2.0 TDI.

I think the "Audis look like VWs inside" part is subjective. I see it too and I agree, but Audi has much nicer premium trim levels and options, as they should, compared to VW. Plus here, we have the 3.0T engine option and quattro, not to mention S6 and then RS6.

ES has a beautiful interior that I really enjoy, but:

vs.

is a lot narrower than:

vs.

My point here is that we don't know how much GA-K can do or handle with respect to performance, but there's a much larger spread between a Passat and RS6 than there is between a Camry XLE and ES 350 UL. It would be cool to see Lexus expand the ES line in the future, if possible, with a higher power option and AWD. Perhaps ES 450h+ is a start.

 

[LexsCTJill]

Things that went well over Akio's 11 years:

• TNGA philosophy &. movement, which is only a single point, but cannot be understated because it touches everything from product to profit I think TNGA is good but also has some critiques. We have an Avalon in the family and while the product is very good, there are some thing from the design I question...but for the most part, the execution and details are better than in the past.
• Unibody Toyota products, ranging from Corolla to Highlander, but excluding the Sienna I think these models are spot on for the brand. But I think it will be interesting to see how the Highlander sales hold up, but the hybrid is where the growth will come from.
• Leadership for the company coming ou at of the 2009 financial collapse, and 2011 earthquakes -Not sure I have paid attention to the company during the financial collapse, I can't remember how they were affected.
• Introduction of GR sub-brand to contain all of the other global performance sub-brands -Interesting, I assume that is for the GR Supra? I don't think it will resonate with North American buyers, but worldwide yes.
• Lexus' global expansion -big success here .
• Dramatic increase in availability of hybrid models -yes, hybrid efforts and expansion is Toyota's defining moment of this century, and so far this decade.
• Toyota marketing and brand strategy -Not sure I paid attention. I think their Toyota Truck marketing when the second gen Tundra was release was a mistake. They did change it after the 2103 refresh. I am quite sure if “Experience Amazing” is the right direction, but the same for Lexus are there
• The LFA -gonna go out on a limb here, I don't think the LFA was that much of a success, I think they world auto market has shifted from what the LFA was supposed to do for the brand. (ie evidence, the cancellation of the GS line)
• Racing and motorsports efforts for both Toyota and Lexus Totally agree.
• Resurgence of Toyota sports cars This is huge for the brand. I think Toyota was right to bring back the Supra and have their partnerships...nostalgia is really in right now and 80s stuff is cool again...a big, big win.
• Retirement of Scion Excellent decision to cancel this brand.
• Toyota changing it's buyer demographic and regaining marketshare among younger buyers Not sure I paid too much attention to this.
• Consolidation of Japanese dealer network Not sure what you mean?

Now that I have had the chance, I wanted to comment on the successes from your point of view.

I think Toyota TRD and Toyota TRD Pro should be celebrated. Toyota has gone back to its 80s and 90s heritage with its Toyota trucks and SUVs...gone away from limited luxury trims at top and added things that were in vogue in the 80s/90s...now we are seeing the iconic TOYOTA words at the front, locking differentials back to the 4Runner which had been absent for a while. And they are returning back to their roots with hood snorkels, kevlar tires, and roofs racks and such....this is something is for the Toyota enthusiast...in the off road body on frame community.

I also want to touch a little on continuous improvement: you are seeing Toyota doing little things again..double-paned windows in the Avalon and now Platinum Highlander. The acoustic windshield in the Avalon. If you glance underneath in the Corolla line, as you move up the trim levels, you see sound deadening in the wheel wheels, felt padding under the rear....other stuff like power telescoping steering wheels in the Avalon, Tundra, Sequoia....the smallest detail I ever noticed on the new Avalon and ES is the tiny little damper on the rear truck as it opens, the trunk slows and comes to a quiet stop when the lid is fully ajar....this year Toyota added a power seat height adjuster to the Tacoma, first time since 2005. Just some of the little things I have observed.

 

[ssun30]

We could call ES a badge-engineered Avalon or Avalon a stripped down (but not really) ES. It's true just from numbers that ES is the dominant seller and Avalon is the side project.

But when inclusion of AWD for its main powertrain options weren't even considered in the original design of the ES (when in its segment, it is totally expected by consumers to have an AWD option), and now they have to borrow a side-project 2.5L AWD powertrain from the Camry, something is not right. What's next? We are going to see DTV in a Corolla Cross but not the ES?

When technologies developed for lower grade Toyota products cannot even be properly incorporated on a so-called premium product, something is not right.

I was going to argue about ES200 with its laughable engine and invisible cost cutting being a huge driver of sales success. It certainly doesn't make it any more 'premium' than an Avalon 2.5 hybrid at the same price. But it's a weak argument since the same happens to BBA too.

 

[LexsCTJill]

We could call ES a badge-engineered Avalon or Avalon a stripped down (but not really) ES. It's true just from numbers that ES is the dominant seller and Avalon is the side project.

But when inclusion of AWD for its main powertrain options weren't even considered in the original design of the ES (when in its segment, it is totally expected by consumers to have an AWD option), and now they have to borrow a side-project 2.5L AWD powertrain from the Camry, something is not right. What's next? We are going to see DTV in a Corolla Cross but not the ES?

When technologies developed for lower grade Toyota products cannot even be properly incorporated on a so-called premium product, something is not right.

I was going to argue about ES200 with its laughable engine and invisible cost cutting being a huge driver of sales success. It certainly doesn't make it any more 'premium' than an Avalon 2.5 hybrid at the same price. But it's a weak argument since the same happens to BBA too.

I think Toyota did this part on purpose. To force buyers into the Highlander which likely has higher profits. If Toyota offered the V6 and awd it would mean less Highlanders. I also notice that you can get the 2.5 with torque vectoring in the RAV4. But no torque vectoring in the Avalon. Sort of like how there is no awd on the CHR as that would take RAV4 awd sales away...same way RX has awd but nothing for the ES.

 

[asoksevil]

I think the GS was always a misunderstood, a misfit.

In terms of size, the ES was larger than the GS by quite a big margin, however in terms of price and performance the GS was way pricier and better. So instead of selling it as a 5 series or e class competitor, it should have been an Audi A7, Mercedes “ELS, CLS” rival. Sporty, 4 door couple and let ES compete more in the comfy side against the 5 series and E class (which would also require more investment into marking the ES more premium).

As it stands the ES however was often viewed as the comfy ride of the IS because of its price point. The IS was shorter, sportier for those who didn’t want the ES.

I hope the GS can come back at some point in another form such as sports coupe.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

I think Toyota did this part on purpose. To force buyers into the Highlander which likely has higher profits. If Toyota offered the V6 and awd it would mean less Highlanders. I also notice that you can get the 2.5 with torque vectoring in the RAV4. But no torque vectoring in the Avalon. Sort of like how there is no awd on the CHR as that would take RAV4 awd sales away...same way RX has awd but nothing for the ES.

I don't think an AWD ES/Avalon *would* cannibalize RX/Highlander. At this point the SUV/CUV "craze" is just the state of the market. So if you're even looking at a sedan or coupe, you've already made the decision to swim against the tide and wouldn't be interested in the dealer trying to show you an SUV/CUV. It's more likely that a would-be ES/Avalon buyer who had AWD as a must-have would look to other brands.

ETA: Also, cannibalizing yourself is always preferable to letting a competitor do it.

 

[bogglo]

I think the "Audis look like VWs inside" part is subjective. I see it too and I agree, but Audi has much nicer premium trim levels and options, as they should, compared to VW. Plus here, we have the 3.0T engine option and quattro, not to mention S6 and then RS6.

ES has a beautiful interior that I really enjoy, but:

vs.

is a lot narrower than:

vs.

My point here is that we don't know how much GA-K can do or handle with respect to performance, but there's a much larger spread between a Passat and RS6 than there is between a Camry XLE and ES 350 UL. It would be cool to see Lexus expand the ES line in the future, if possible, with a higher power option and AWD. Perhaps ES 450h+ is a start.

I agree with your point. Since TMC decided to piss me off by canceling the GS, I think its an opportunity for the ES to further differentiate itself from the Camry and Avalon. With that being said, I can see them Keeping the IS and better align it with the 3series and C class without worrying about the size getting to the GS territory. Also, the ES can easily fill the GS shoes because there is no doubt the current ES is a better-looking car to the current GS applying Audi's formula won't be a bad idea also an ES F is welcomed the M5 already comes in AWD so nothing wrong with an AWD ES F. The next LS really need to fix the problem of the ES being spacious.

I hope we make it through this covid season so we can have a better idea of what's to come.

 

[Levi]

It should be posted in the ES thread, but to add to the previous thoughts, look at a hypothetical ES F as a different performance product, more similar to Volvo S60/S90 Polestar, the rumored Acura TLX Type-S or the promised 400 PS Peugeot 508 Sport Engineered (yep, stupid name when they have GTi name). For those that don't know:

The ES F will not be a direct high-end German Trio competitor, as it will not target the same customers. But it may create a new non-existing performance market, and might be highly successful at it.

 

[Sulu]

I don't think an AWD ES/Avalon *would* cannibalize RX/Highlander. At this point the SUV/CUV "craze" is just the state of the market. So if you're even looking at a sedan or coupe, you've already made the decision to swim against the tide and wouldn't be interested in the dealer trying to show you an SUV/CUV. It's more likely that a would-be ES/Avalon buyer who had AWD as a must-have would look to other brands.

ETA: Also, cannibalizing yourself is always preferable to letting a competitor do it.

There are 2 approaches right now to keep buyers from flocking to the CUVs/SUVs and in the sedan market.

The first approach is the styling: Clearly differentiate the sedan from the utility vehicle. Make the sedan look like a sedan and not a utility vehicle, by making it look low and swoopy and sporty. The ES has that styling.

The second is the "if you can't beat them, join them" approach: If the perceived safety aspect of AWD is a feature that is attracting buyers to utility vehicles, offer that feature on sedans. Nissan is doing that with the new Altima by making AWD available (and standard in the Canadian market). It seems that Toyota is late to this marketing approach. Perhaps HQ in Japan was not aware of the new marketing and product approaches in the far-flung corners of its empire, so Toyota North America had to step in and do something on its own.

 

[ssun30]

ETA: Also, cannibalizing yourself is always preferable to letting a competitor do it.

That's so true.

BBA's strategy has always been about maximize total addressable market even though there is a lot of internal overlap, for the exact reason to prevent other companies own a certain niche for themselves. I call it defensive cannibalization. In fact it's done in almost every industry.

 

[mikeavelli]

Solid post Gecko.

To me I was expecting a product onslaught for Lexus. What we got was a product onslaught for Toyota. It seems to me the needle moved to Toyota first, Lexus second. That is concerning. If 2020-2030 shows newfound energy and investment in Lexus then this decade will be quickly forgotten. If that DOES NOT HAPPEN, we will look at it as the beginning of falling behind.

It is also very hard to understand how much the move to Plano really wore out USA. I'm stunned those employees that stayed still produced. We are not talking moving from South Carolina to North Carolina. We are talking LA/Cali to Dallas/TX. What a change. That was done as a very very long term plan. So unfortunately for us now, it hurts a bit.

I simply cannot fathom running a company as large and storied as Toyota. I often marvel at how large companies work. Imagine having thousands of managers reporting to you. Mind boggling.

3 years ago I was lucky enough to briefly meet him when the Yacht Concept was shown in Miami.

 

[DFGeneer]

Past 11 years explained by Akio himself:

 

[Gecko]

Past 11 years explained by Akio himself:

Just want to A) Thank you for posting this and B) Say that everyone should watch this.

We - and I especially - have talked about there being a lack of planning and vision at Lexus. We've wondered why everything for Toyota has been so great while Lexus has been left on the back burner with extended product cycles and delays. This video goes a long way towards answering those questions and providing some context. It seems clear - and understandable - that Lexus is not the priority with everything else that Akio has had to solve over 11 years.

The thing we have to hope and wait for is that a Lexus plan exists and will materialize amidst all of this. It seems like all of Akio's work is now turning into real profits, even amid global crises, so hopefully Lexus can become a focus point again.

 

[ssun30]

That was a great video and to summarize:
The greatest thing Akio Toyoda has done is stopping the internal rot of this giant corporation. The most important thing about a company is its culture, not profits or product lineup. Cutting costs and designing new products cannot be properly executed if the company culture is not fixed. That's why I have very little hope for Nissan. The leader of a company shapes the culture. If you have a cheap CEO, you have a cheap company.

We've seen how once great companies in developed nations decay from within. The most notable recent example AFAIK is Boeing and Intel, both monopolies that got hollowed out by toxic company culture and blind pursuit for profit margins. Luckily for American companies, when things go wrong they can always ask the government for bailouts, while Japan doesn't have that luxury.

 

[supra93]

Things that have gone poorly over Akio's 11 years:

Putting a Supra badge on a BMW...

 

[supra93]

Really... Idk whats wrong with Toyota (or should we say BMW/Subaru)? They make a 4 banger Zupra that no one asked for, but refuse to make a turbo 86 which fanboys have been crying and begging for since day one. 🤨🤣😂

 

[mediumhot]

I will repeat my stance on the issue: Akio should employ some designer from the inside who is truly passionate about exotic car design and process to lead Lexus as separate entity that strives on emotion. Sure few guidelines could be established such as don't mess with success like ES/RX and whole CUV thing but the rest is an open frontier. Lexus cannot sustain things Toyota does like hot swapping name plates (Corolla>Auris>Corolla) and killing off models by generation or two (Venza) only to have them come back. That is not as easy in premium segment, that's why we will not see GS nomenclature in at least another twenty years or ever again if they make another try in RWD sports sedan market with some other name. Lexus has a great challenge ahead of them to try and move proper ICE/hybrid RWD vehicles and whole BEV thing where it's a lot easier to implement RWD is still too far away to be relevant. If Lexus doesn't have its own soul (dedicated design, powerful engines, sophisticated driver's technology and other components) then it will just turn completely into glorified Toyota like with CT/UX/NX/ES/GX, something that even Honda tries to get away from with new Acuras.

 

[Gecko]

^agree. Great post.

 

[Rydo]

Honda put up a valiant effort to keep making amazing cars but is financially bleeding. The once proud electronics industry is in complete ruins.

I can do nothing but agree with you. Honda once had 10+ cars in their lineup in the UK. Now, they are down to Civic, CRV, HRV, E (which is priced disastrously and will surely fail despite great looks) and Jazz (which stacks up terribly against the new Euro-Yaris). Honda are now just a boring throwaway car brand, when 20 years ago enthusiasts had so much to feast over in their lineup and a fairly recent back catalogue of great cars. Honda still haven't got into the electric scooter game. Continental Europe is flooded with motor-scooters for ancient cities - and a major player in electrification could be Honda with their e-Cub which was shown years ago yet still hasn't made production.

Looking towards electronics, you only need to take someone like Sony. Recently, some of their more innovative ideas have returned like AIBO and a huge attempt to get their mobile phone business looking like something that is remotely appealing. But still rumours persist about BRAVIA being broken off into its own division as it continues to tank, and of course VAIO which pumped out great looking PCs for years was spun off a number of years ago now.

The only bits that make Sony money now are imaging equipment and PlayStation. Why don't they just make one cell phone, which is comparable to iPhone/Galaxy phones but is Made in Japan - something that Lexus is finally utilising in its marketing spiel!

 

[Levi]

The fall is Japanese industry (Toyota excluded based on number) is a case study waiting.