Look at what a colleague of mine just brought home...a new Supra.

mmcartalk

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Check this out, folks.......one of my colleagues in my church just brought it home a couple of days ago. Thought I'd share the photos. With it, of course, goes the complementary bottle of Scratch-Out I customarily give to those with new wheels. .

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Rydo

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Very nice looking car, but don't get me wrong, I absolutely hate Toyota for doing the BMW collab. Not even that, but the lack of attention to detail is astounding - iDrive and all the BMW chimes etc? These are almost like freebie changes that would have helped the Toyota feel.

Nah, if they couldn't do it alone then don't do it. This will forever be to the motoring world - 'basically a BMW'.
 

Ian Schmidt

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This car isn't for "the motoring world", it's for Toyota customers. They don't know about the BMW situation, they just know that Toyota's making a desirable performance car for the first time in 20 years. That's what halo cars are for.
 

Will1991

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As far as infotainment goes, it was the fastest way for Toyota to get a proper one...

Don't mind the BMW partnership, even the one with Subaru made an amazing car. Only the branding should be different since previous iteration were on par with Nissan's GTR and Honda NSX's performance wise.
 

mmcartalk

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This car isn't for "the motoring world", it's for Toyota customers. They don't know about the BMW situation, they just know that Toyota's making a desirable performance car for the first time in 20 years. That's what halo cars are for.

That's true from an ultimate point of view, but a lot of people on the Toyota Forums resent the fact that it is basically a BMW product.
 

Rydo

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They don't know about the BMW situation
Oh spare me...have you read one single review of it without the BMW mention? It's an enthusiast's car, and enthusiast's know what it is. It's not like a Camry where 90% of buyers are just looking for an appliance.
 

Ian Schmidt

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Oh spare me...have you read one single review of it without the BMW mention? It's an enthusiast's car, and enthusiast's know what it is. It's not like a Camry where 90% of buyers are just looking for an appliance.
Not what I'm saying. I'm saying that the typical US Toyota buyer sees the Supra (and the 86, which is also a great car) and they feel better about their Camry or Corolla or Avalon. They aren't seeing the reviews of Supra because it's not what they're buying. That's why I specifically called it a halo car.

People actually buying one know what it is and isn't. If I were in that market I'd get the Supra simply because in my experience Toyota dealers aren't as annoying as BMW dealers, but your mileage may vary.
 
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That's true from an ultimate point of view, but a lot of people on the Toyota Forums resent the fact that it is basically a BMW product.
Codeveloping ≠ Same car

And I vehemently stand by this. There are many points of the Supra that is different from the Z4. They are wholly different cars. German anti-trust laws have banned badge-engineered vehicles. Also, the Supra handles an order of magnitude better than the Z4, has better steering feel, and unlike any other Toyota, it has stupidly fast gear ratios too, resulting in a monstrous 3.8 seconds to 60 mph. Yeah the engine is underrated and is dynoed close to 400 horsepower at the crank than 335. But that makes it cool because you think about the Gentleman's Agreement back in the day. Now the 2021 Supra has 382 horsepower which is actually rated at 440 to the crank.

Toyota quoted the wheel numbers but didn't officially state it in the specifications sheet and trolled the sh*t out of BMW. Expect ~3.6 seconds to 60 now for the 2021 GR Supra.

Now should it have had the Toyota chime when you open the door? Yes. Should have the interior been more interesting? Yes. Should it have a manual? Yes.

Now the interior chime when the car fires up and BMW iDrive (called Toyota SupraConnect) are two things that I adore. So I'm cool with that.

The Supra GRMN would be an instant buy for me when it comes in ~CY 2022.
 
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If all they did for the GRMN was to put a 2JZGTE with a 6MT Getrag, they'd sell out. lol
Well we can forget about the GRMN Supra having a 2JZ-GTE because that thing weighs like a mountain. However the transmission sounds interesting. Now I've seen on Wikipedia that the GR Yaris uses a "V16-series" manual which hyperlinks to the Toyota V160 and V161 manuals that is made by Getrag that were put in previous Supra's and other JDM cars.

This is interesting to me because Toyota had a load of beef with Getrag and separated after the A80 Supra. So if this thing from Wikipedia is true, then it is really shocking that they're teaming up again, and because Getrag makes bomb-a** manuals, then I would highly expect a manual Supra soon. Tada-san and the Toyota engineers did not like the BMW manuals because they have really poor feel, and people have been raving about the manual in the GR Yaris.
 

Joaquin Ruhi

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...Now I've seen on Wikipedia that the GR Yaris uses a "V16-series" manual which hyperlinks to the Toyota V160 and V161 manuals that is made by Getrag that were put in previous Supra's and other JDM cars.

This is interesting to me because Toyota had a sh*t load of beef with Getrag and separated after the A80 Supra. So if this thing from Wikipedia is true, then it is really f*cking shocking that they're teaming up again, and because Getrag makes bomb-a** manuals, then I would highly expect a manual Supra soon. Tada-san and the Toyota engineers did not like the BMW manuals because they have really poor feel, and people have been raving about the manual in the GR Yaris.
I think whoever wrote that on Wikipedia is VERY wrong. It makes ZERO sense. The Getrag V160/V161 is a longitudinally mounted transmission for RWD architectures, whereas Yaris GR has a transversely-mounted engine and transmission. That erroneous Wikipedia post piqued my curiosity, but I found no conclusive information. The Toyota Global Newsroom's GR Yaris release doesn't show a transmission code, only describing it as a 6-speed iMT (Intelligent Manual Transmission). Further Wikipedia rummaging leads me to believe that the GR Yaris uses some variant of the EC60 higher-strength 6-speed manual transaxle family used on the current Toyota Corolla and on the Lotus Elise. Wikipedia separately lists EC62, EC65 and EC69 variants, but no additional information.
 
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I think whoever wrote that on Wikipedia is VERY wrong. It makes ZERO sense. The Getrag V160/V161 is a longitudinally mounted transmission for RWD architectures, whereas Yaris GR has a transversely-mounted engine and transmission. That erroneous Wikipedia post piqued my curiosity, but I found no conclusive information. The Toyota Global Newsroom's GR Yaris release doesn't show a transmission code, only describing it as a 6-speed iMT (Intelligent Manual Transmission). Further Wikipedia rummaging leads me to believe that the GR Yaris uses some variant of the EC60 higher-strength 6-speed manual transaxle family used on the current Toyota Corolla and on the Lotus Elise. Wikipedia separately lists EC62, EC65 and EC69 variants, but no additional information.
Can the V160/V161 pair well with permanent AWD architectures too? Because that's what the GR Yaris is. Also the GR Yaris isn't based on a normal Yaris but is actually a homologation special for the Toyota Yaris WRC. Maybe it's another form of the Getrag V160/V161 transmission that can pair well with the GR Yaris? Could it ever be possible that they shifted the transmission to be transverse or is that simply not possible? To me it seems almost impossible to do so but I'm just asking anyways.
 

Joaquin Ruhi

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Can the V160/V161 pair well with permanent AWD architectures too?... Could it ever be possible that they shifted the transmission to be transverse or is that simply not possible? To me it seems almost impossible to do so but I'm just asking anyways.
To my knowledge, unlike engines, a given transmission or transaxle (transmission, axle and differential in one integrated assembly) can't simply be rotated and adapted from transverse to longitudinal placement (or vice versa).
 

Sulu

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Those pictures above are great -- and here are 2 more -- that show the difference in size between the Supra engine and Getrag V160 transmission unit, and the 2020 Yaris 3-cylinder engine and transmission unit.

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Courtesy of : Alibaba

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Courtesy of: CNET

The longitudinal transmission seems to be at least as long as the Supra's inline-6 engine (which is a long engine). The transverse transmission seems to be about half the length of the Yaris' inline-3 engine (an engine itself that is about half the length of an I6 engine).

A transmission designed for longitudinal placement would not fit transversely. And the placement of the gears inside the transmission housing would be greatly different between a longitudinal transmission and a transverse transmission.
 
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