Discussion in 'Lexus Lounge' started by krew, Jan 24, 2019.
Lexus USA Dealerships Want Large SUV "Escalade Fighter"
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The Escalade is a tacky, tasteless, gin palace on wheels. Belonging to a brand that is going down the plughole fast.
Who wants to emulate that, and put off all your wealthy yet tastefully restrained clientele?
IMO, it's hard to make such a case when you have the full size, three-row LX, even though the LX's bones - as a true off-roader - are fairly compromised in terms of utility, gas mileage and packaging.
I suppose a Lexus version of the next gen Sequoia would make financial sense, but at what cost? $80k? $85k? The LX starts right there, too.
People thought the Sequoia and Land Cruiser could never coexist, so perhaps I am wrong. Even though I'm open to more SUVs, this seems crazy:
What about an LX-L?
With the above layout, you'd have the RX, RXL, GX and LF-1 all sitting at "midsize" which seems insane to me.
TNGA-F might make it easy to base the next gen LX on a larger platform than the Land Cruiser, effectively killing two birds with one stone.
Forget about Escalade. Lexus could definitely use a unibody GLS/X7 fighter that's more about refinement, spaciousness and on-road manners than off-road prowess.
^I think that could theoretically be the LF-1... if they decide to make it 3 rows. Or at least, a three row version.
Lexus needs a proper 3 row unibody SUV, from the ground up. The RX-L is an afterthought. This is what happens when a dealership pushes for something. You get a sub-par product. I'm sorry but the RX-L is a joke. The 3rd row is a joke. It barley has any to zero leg room and yet a Highlander, which shares its platform, manage 4 more inches on the same wheelbase and a smaller overall length.
To be frank, Lexus should have extended the production cycle on the 3rd gen RX until a proper 4th gen, 3 row RX is ready.
Lesson is, Lexus needs to stand their ground and not give in to the dealership's demands.
I don’t think we need a larger LX that baby is huge now a quicker LX could make a lot of sense. Also agree with the LF1 as X7 or what the Q8 now competitor. We do need that LF1 like now tho...
To expand on my previous post, I really do wonder how they will position and differentiate RX, RXL and LF-1, specifically. GX is an easier one, being BOF with a completely different personality.
Lexus is pretty good at building cars that look sporty, even if they don't exactly fulfill that proposition dynamically - NX and RX are great examples. RX also has a great interior, is "right size two row" for most people, and the V6 is decently peppy. There's also the hybrid. And an F-Sport package.
Even if it is RWD and marketed as a flagship vehicle, I'm not sure how much of a case there is for the LF-1 above the RX if they are similar in size. Keep in mind the next generation RX will move to TNGA and adopt the new Dynamic Torque Vectoring AWD, as well as next gen powertrains and tech. Every other model that has been redesigned on TNGA has been a huge step up, so I think the 5th generation RX will be as well.
In fact, I think of this much like the ES and GS (while spwolf is sharpening his spear and looking up my address) debacle. Lexus thought they could differentiate them because the ES was the "entry level luxury" model while folks wanting sport would opt for a GS. Reality set in and people weren't willing to spend $10-15k more to get RWD, when many of the other execution points between both were similar.
Perhaps the best case is for the RX L to only live for this generation, and for the LF-1 to be a true three row vehicle to match up with the GLS and X7.
Why do people want the LF1 to have 3 rows? It’s supposed to be the flagship performance oriented “coupe” like SUV. Why can’t the LX get longer and become a proper Escalade fighter?
Also, why does Lexus need to have a SUV as big as the Escalade to compete in the segment?
Funny how people want Lexus to be unique and want them to just follow whatever everyone else are doing.
People want a big 3 row SUV but it doesn’t mean they want it as big as the Escalade. People still buy the GLS, Rover LWB and Q7 when they are all “smaller”, but no buyers will consider them as “less-than-Escalade”. The LX is 5080mm long and Escalade is 5179mm long. They aren't even that off from each other.
LF1 and LX can sit along side like Audi’s Q7 and Q8. Lexus can have 2 flagship SUVs with 2 different purposes you know?
Lastly, as much I don’t like the RXL, I doubt Lexus will kill the LWB of their best selling nameplate.
Does anybody here really think they know more about what a potential Lexus customer is looking for, than the actual customer facing Lexus dealership?
The actual dealerships think nobody wants the GS, which would be a controversial position here on LE (even though I think it's largely correct).
I think the LX is a direct competitor to the Escalade, at least size-wise. But the interior is not as luxurious as the Caddy interior imo, and there are not many LX units available (at least in NA) as there are Escalades. The Escalade is also less off-road oriented. Also, the Escalade and Navigator are both "big baller" icons in American culture.
I know this will be an unpopular opinion with Lexus enthusiasts because of the heritage of the LX lineup, but I think Lexus should focus less on making the LX off-road compatible, and more of a luxury SUV that is more family-friendly and more competitive with the GLS-Class, X7, Q7 and Escalade/Navigator. This will definitely increase sales for the LX because I am pretty sure that most buyers do not buy big luxury SUVs to go off-road (unless they're in the Middle East), but to haul around family. And since the LX isn't as good as it's competitors at doing that, most buyers will lean towards German or American competitors. An LX-L may also help to compete with the Escalade ESV and Navigator L.
problem with that opinion is that LX sells a lot in middle east, and thus due to popularity there and other harsh market, it is better seller worldwide than LS.
Hence now they are building LF1 that is not similar to LX.
I understand why people say no to keeping the GS and I haven’t driven the new ES but when you drive the old ES to GS no way in hell would you want the ES compared to GS unless price and maybe size? The Gs sounds better handles better and especially the F sport looks better. My two cents.
Absolutely agree the LX and LF1 could both live together easily. LF1 if performance is key no way they should do a third row and I think they need it to be quicker than the SUVs they have. We have 2 third rows already build the LF1 to be quick and sporty!
i think it is likely that LF1 will be sporty suv with token 3rd row and LX will stay similar to today but more practical for US market.
In any case, in 2017 they sold over 30k LX's, there is no way they will make it a CUV. It is very successful vehicle for them, just not US/EU as primary market for it.
It is just like how GX is big in the US, and sells absolutely nothing everywhere else.
I've suggested in the past that Lexus make an LX 570 L based off the Sequoia. Then I got to thinking that Lexus could also take the Sequoia platform and extended it further to the same length as a Chevy Suburban/Escalade but keeping the width and height same as the Sequoia.
LX 570 L (Sequoia based)
LX 570 XL (Sequoia based extended to same length as Suburban)
The RX should be RWD based and off-road capable like Range Rover and sporty like an X5 M. The LF1 looks like a QX70, which is an RX rival. The RX is a FWD rival of the X5, GLE and Cayenne. They are all flagship CUVs. GLS and X7 are nothing else than stretched GLE and X5. They are not more luxurious. If the next RX gets LS quality interior as we see with UX, it will be on par with the Germans. RX and RX-L RWD based and powerful will be exactly the same equivalent as the those. The LF1 looks like being that car, a RWD RX. LX is just a plush Land Cruiser that Russians and Arabs like, but it has more to do with status symbol than with the outdated product itself. Americans just need an updated Sequoia, and luxurious Lexus version.
So X5 has LS quality interior? Interesting. And RX should be offroad vehicle that is as sporty as X5 M.
Should it have wings too?
And LX is just status symbol, not 60 years of heritage of Land Cruiser and not unbreakable luxury yacht for worst places to drive on earth?
Out of curiosity, have you been in both?
Escalade has nice quality leather, but that is really it. Nothing like a traditional column shifter on a $100k SUV
What's wrong with a column shifter though. Every single Mercedes-Benz vehicle uses it except for some of the manual models in Europe. It makes it clean and tasteful.