krew

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Lexus teased an upcoming concept alongside yesterday’s next-generation All-Wheel Drive system announcement, showing off both the front and rear of the vehicle:


Little was said about the concept, only that this was the “first glimpse of new BEV design concept featuring DIRECT4 and other Lexus Electrified technologies”, and that it would debut early next year.
The rear shape suggests a crossover, bringing to mind a couple options: a next-generation NX is expected in 2021, and Lexus did recently...
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CrisB

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Here in Italy the EV UX it seems to have not any consideration from the market.
The advertising made from the Italian branch of Lexus, it’s totally out of any logic.
They mix the actual range with the latest EV concept, as if the concept it’s actually a real car.

At the moment in Italy Lexus IS, RC and CT was cancelled, it’s not possible to buy these models and the new IS mk4 would not imported.

That’s very bad for who like me need to change it’s fourth IS since 2004 and would not have a SUV or mini SUV.
ES could be an option (but cost about 18000€ more than a IS) but many reports of a car with a “non real Lexus heritage” are to be considered.

They declare that they want to invest only in NX and UX “because people want them”.

I think in Italy we will not have infrastructures for EV’s soon, so I expect that this new model will not released in Italy.
 

Levi

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Here in Italy the EV UX it seems to have not any consideration from the market.
The advertising made from the Italian branch of Lexus, it’s totally out of any logic.
They mix the actual range with the latest EV concept, as if the concept it’s actually a real car.

At the moment in Italy Lexus IS, RC and CT was cancelled, it’s not possible to buy these models and the new IS mk4 would not imported.

That’s very bad for who like me need to change it’s fourth IS since 2004 and would not have a SUV or mini SUV.
ES could be an option (but cost about 18000€ more than a IS) but many reports of a car with a “non real Lexus heritage” are to be considered.

They declare that they want to invest only in NX and UX “because people want them”.

I think in Italy we will not have infrastructures for EV’s soon, so I expect that this new model will not released in Italy.
I am in Italy too, in Rome. I hear them (not Lexus, in general) inciting people for BEVs, but the infrastructure will never be anywhere as reliable.
 

Will1991

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Here in Italy the EV UX it seems to have not any consideration from the market.
The advertising made from the Italian branch of Lexus, it’s totally out of any logic.
They mix the actual range with the latest EV concept, as if the concept it’s actually a real car.

At the moment in Italy Lexus IS, RC and CT was cancelled, it’s not possible to buy these models and the new IS mk4 would not imported.

That’s very bad for who like me need to change it’s fourth IS since 2004 and would not have a SUV or mini SUV.
ES could be an option (but cost about 18000€ more than a IS) but many reports of a car with a “non real Lexus heritage” are to be considered.

They declare that they want to invest only in NX and UX “because people want them”.

I think in Italy we will not have infrastructures for EV’s soon, so I expect that this new model will not released in Italy.
Just get into a Lexus ES and drive it, all of you questions about Lexus heritage will be answered... It's not a compact sports sedan like the IS, it's a proper medium size premium sedan tuned for comfort and interior space.

It’s also a car from another (higher) segment than the IS, we can't forget that.

I'm not saying I agree with Lexus, I really think this new IS should've been updated with the new 2.5L hybrid system from the Crown and sold everywhere, but I don't understand so much "hate" on the ES just for sharing the platform with Toyota...
Just get into a Camry and then go see a ES... They're totally different cars for different markets...

But, coming back to this topic:

Toyota's game-changing solid-state battery en route for 2021 debut


Maybe this RZ450e will be the first BEV equipped with SSB from Toyota?
 
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ssun30

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It will be a low C-rate prototype cell for micromobility applications (skateboards, segways, scooters etc.) not for cars.
 

maiaramdan

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Kirk is really good and in a different way than the most

I like the idea of his spread sheets also

Return to the RZ, if we remember the old post of 6 future Toyota EVs
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The puzzle is now solved
The RZ will be the brother of the Toyota vehicle in the middle
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ssun30

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Isn't he just copying information from LE (and not give credit for the source)?
 

CrisB

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Just get into a Lexus ES and drive it, all of you questions about Lexus heritage will be answered... It's not a compact sports sedan like the IS, it's a proper medium size premium sedan tuned for comfort and interior space.

It’s also a car from another (higher) segment than the IS, we can't forget that.

I'm not saying I agree with Lexus, I really think this new IS should've been updated with the new 2.5L hybrid system from the Crown and sold everywhere, but I don't understand so much "hate" on the ES just for sharing the platform with Toyota...
Just get into a Camry and then go see a ES... They're totally different cars for different markets...

But, coming back to this topic:

Toyota's game-changing solid-state battery en route for 2021 debut


Maybe this RZ450e will be the first BEV equipped with SSB from Toyota?
Yes, me too I don’t understand the hatefor ES. But if you read around, especially in EU, people complaining is not “a Lexus”.

I don’t think it comes from sharing platform, that’s always done from Toyota and Lexus.

I heard about a obsolete suspensions, a “tired engine”, front traction is not Lexus, and so on.

One dealer told me, taliking of normal range (not the sport range): “IS, RX, LS are real Lexus, based on heritage and tradition, all the others -UX, NX, ES- arejust “dressed” like a Lexus, but they aren’t “

The amount of owners delud seems high.

But what is the truth?

Here in Italy all the ads, the communication, the empowerment of marketing is on NX and UX all the other range is totally forget, they are trying to catch a kind of customer that doesn’t know nothing about Lexus, they are just looking for discounts, rebates, offers.. better if they can drive one year and they give back after their money ended: a glance at the Italian Facebook page of the brand it tell more than words: those customers have nothing to do with Lexus.

Lexus itself, I though, fail on communicate the ES.

The result?

Lot of customers who liked a sedan, like me, now are thinking Germans car again (sic) and this is worst, really worst, especially after 14 years in Lexus and four IS.

It need more communication, more feedback and more clearness on ES, because it seems the market did not understand this car.
And the result would be they withdrawn soon the ES in Europe as they have done with IS, RC and CT.
 

Will1991

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Kirk is really good and in a different way than the most

I like the idea of his spread sheets also

Return to the RZ, if we remember the old post of 6 future Toyota EVs
View attachment 4471
The puzzle is now solved
The RZ will be the brother of the Toyota vehicle in the middle
View attachment 4472
The one in the middle should be as much of a sedan that we will get in the near future.. Let’s see what’s coming out but it’s giving me a lot of hope on Lexus future!


Isn't he just copying information from LE (and not give credit for the source)?
Sometimes he gives credit to LE, but yes, this time I feel the same way as you...
 

spwolf

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It will be a low C-rate prototype cell for micromobility applications (skateboards, segways, scooters etc.) not for cars.
Pretty sure nikkei is reporting about solid state battery in preproduction car and how they are building manufacturing chain that will start production testing in 2021. They are also specific in 2x density gains, and Nikkei would not blabber it out without info from Toyota.

Which is good stuff with all of the announcements, forget just toyota, it seems like there will be more SSB options in next few years.
 

mediumhot

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Yes, me too I don’t understand the hatefor ES. But if you read around, especially in EU, people complaining is not “a Lexus”.

I don’t think it comes from sharing platform, that’s always done from Toyota and Lexus.

I heard about a obsolete suspensions, a “tired engine”, front traction is not Lexus, and so on.

One dealer told me, taliking of normal range (not the sport range): “IS, RX, LS are real Lexus, based on heritage and tradition, all the others -UX, NX, ES- arejust “dressed” like a Lexus, but they aren’t “

The amount of owners delud seems high.

But what is the truth?

Here in Italy all the ads, the communication, the empowerment of marketing is on NX and UX all the other range is totally forget, they are trying to catch a kind of customer that doesn’t know nothing about Lexus, they are just looking for discounts, rebates, offers.. better if they can drive one year and they give back after their money ended: a glance at the Italian Facebook page of the brand it tell more than words: those customers have nothing to do with Lexus.

Lexus itself, I though, fail on communicate the ES.

The result?

Lot of customers who liked a sedan, like me, now are thinking Germans car again (sic) and this is worst, really worst, especially after 14 years in Lexus and four IS.

It need more communication, more feedback and more clearness on ES, because it seems the market did not understand this car.
And the result would be they withdrawn soon the ES in Europe as they have done with IS, RC and CT.
ES in Europe is even more of an enigma than GS was. People were very enthusiastic about ES debut in Europe cause common sense told you Lexus would now has a midsize sedan that could be priced properly against bare bones A6 or E class. Then official pricing showed up and it turned out to be more expensive than outgoing GS. This is probably the first and last generation ES Europe will ever see. This car has zero chance against Germans, their best bet are company fleet sales or Japanese embassy bulk car donations which they do from time to time.
 

Levi

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ES in Europe is even more of an enigma than GS was. People were very enthusiastic about ES debut in Europe cause common sense told you Lexus would now has a midsize sedan that could be priced properly against bare bones A6 or E class. Then official pricing showed up and it turned out to be more expensive than outgoing GS. This is probably the first and last generation ES Europe will ever see. This car has zero chance against Germans, their best bet are company fleet sales or Japanese embassy bulk car donations which they do from time to time.
In Europe company fleet sales are BBA, their employees can't be seen in anything else than German 'Premium', unless it is the unimportant employees which then get a Renault Clio, not even a Capture (which is honestly no better), but I'd then rather choose a Dacia Sandero (Stepway).
 

ssun30

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Pretty sure nikkei is reporting about solid state battery in preproduction car and how they are building manufacturing chain that will start production testing in 2021. They are also specific in 2x density gains, and Nikkei would not blabber it out without info from Toyota.

Which is good stuff with all of the announcements, forget just toyota, it seems like there will be more SSB options in next few years.
"If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is."

There are tens of billions of dollars of fundamental research into improving current Li-ion NMC technology conducted by some of the most prestigious groups in the world. If SSBs are so close to commercialization, it means the entire academia has been asleep in the past four years spending useless effort on obsolete technology. It means all the automakers in the world, including Toyota itself, have been wasting their budget funding research that leads to nowhere.

It is next to impossible to hide progress especially in civilian projects, because to progress quickly there has to be collaborations. The academia is very secretive and very open at the same time. Everyone has a NDA to follow, yet everyone knows what others are doing.

I will be convinced when I see it.
 
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I thought the ES Hybrid sold well in Europe?
ES in Europe is even more of an enigma than GS was. People were very enthusiastic about ES debut in Europe cause common sense told you Lexus would now has a midsize sedan that could be priced properly against bare bones A6 or E class. Then official pricing showed up and it turned out to be more expensive than outgoing GS. This is probably the first and last generation ES Europe will ever see. This car has zero chance against Germans, their best bet are company fleet sales or Japanese embassy bulk car donations which they do from time to time.
 

CrisB

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I thought the ES Hybrid sold well in Europe?
To be honest in Europe I don’t know.

For sure in Italy, in my region, that is so big I never saw on on the road. When I travel to center od south Italy, never saw an ES.
No one car magazine talk or show a Lexus sedan, nor Lexus advertise ES or show an ES in any feature online.
Just occasionally like for the introduction of MY2021 you can read a short feature.

Here in Italy, since the introduction of NX the most sold Lexus is still the RX and now NX Is going to be number one.

All the rest is about unknown, while in the past IS and CT was very popular, but was also possible to see GS and LS.

The old enthusiasts and core Lexus owners are going to be forget, for what it seems is a new generation of customers that Lexus is seeking: that rent a NX or UX basic, they drove one year and theis swap for another car (not necessarily Lexus!), with these new programs, like “pay per drive” or “rent for on year” in which Lexus try to involve the customers, this way they lost all the old historical customers That every 3/4 years want to change for another Lexus.
 

spwolf

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"If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is."

There are tens of billions of dollars of fundamental research into improving current Li-ion NMC technology conducted by some of the most prestigious groups in the world. If SSBs are so close to commercialization, it means the entire academia has been asleep in the past four years spending useless effort on obsolete technology. It means all the automakers in the world, including Toyota itself, have been wasting their budget funding research that leads to nowhere.

It is next to impossible to hide progress especially in civilian projects, because to progress quickly there has to be collaborations. The academia is very secretive and very open at the same time. Everyone has a NDA to follow, yet everyone knows what others are doing.

I will be convinced when I see it.
That is fine, just-auto reported little bit more information. Once again, keep in mind Toyota started SSB research back in 2008 and formed link with 4 major universities in Japan.

Not saying that it will start production next year, but if production chain is starting, it cant be 10 years out.
 

ssun30

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According to this article, Toyota has tested its SSBs on its COMS EV. For those unfamiliar, COMS is a micro NEV designed for urban mobility as a more conventional 4-wheel alternative to the i-Road. The car is capable of going 50km at 60km/h. The ultracompact BEV concept is probably the second generation of COMS. Still, this is a micromobility solution not a real car (basically a scooter with a shell or a fancy golf cart)
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The article speculates the first SSB product due in mid 2022 will be the next-gen Prius.
 
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