Lexus Planning New Compact Car for 2021?

Discussion in 'Lexus Lounge' started by LexusTechSA, May 1, 2019.

  1. LexusTechSA
    LexusTechSA Founding Member
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  2. internalaudit
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  3. krew
    krew Administrator
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  4. Joaquin Ruhi
    Joaquin Ruhi Staff Member Moderator
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    If the only thing that author Hilton Holloway was trying to tell us in his Autocar story that kicked off this thread is that there will be a 2nd-generation CT hatchback and that it will be introduced during the 2021 calendar year, then that's great. But his article makes a couple of nonsensical assertions.

    Smaller than UX? Does that mean that CT will shrink down to Yaris size and the TNGA-A platform?

    For reference, the original CT shared its 2600mm wheelbase and "New MC" architecture with the Toyota Auris and Corolla iM hatchback. Although based on the "old MC" architecture, a 2nd-gen Matrix hatchback (whose wheelbase also happens to be 2600mm) famously stood in for CT (with photoshopped body) in an early video.

    At present, both the latest (E210) Toyota Corolla Hatchback and Lexus UX share a 2640mm (103.9") wheelbase version of the TNGA-C platform. Isn't it far likelier that a 2CT would do the same?

    Or by smaller, did Mr. Holloway mean lower and less tall as opposed to shorter?

    Why make it more crossover-shaped? (read: taller). Wouldn't that just be a redundant and unnecessary second UX?

    Then why did Toyota/Lexus register a European trademark for UX 300e and not CT 300e?
     
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  5. Joe
    Joe Premium Member
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    '(...) Some form of electrification': that this means 'BEV' is pure speculation. Nothing what I read here is pointing towards EV (unfortunately, as it would be a good choice). But as everything is still very Hybrid at Lexus, it would be a surprise to me...

    The other thing: Lexus definitely needs a CT replacement (at least in some markets) as a 'gateway to the brand', to keep on offering something of app. -8.000 € compared to the UX. But why wouldn't it be something crossover like? Remember the LF-SA?


    [​IMG]
     
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  6. maiaramdan
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    What if the next CT is just a lux. version of the new Mazda 3 !!!
     
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  7. Joaquin Ruhi
    Joaquin Ruhi Staff Member Moderator
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    With just a week in between, I've spent time in both a Lexus UX and the latest Mazda3 Premium and can assure you that the Mazda3's interior, in design, quality of materials and just about everything else is actually more deserving of Lexus badging than the UX itself!
     
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  8. maiaramdan
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    Although not yet in Egypt, but already the previous generation of it is amazing steering wise, the best in its class, that's why I thought it will be the right choice to be the next CT
     
  9. GSCT
    GSCT Founding Member
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    As an owner of 2 CTs (a 2012 followed by a 2017) I now have some hope for a replacement in a few years IF it comes to North America.
     
  10. Will1991
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    This is looking up really good! Hope it's a CT replacement and not a Yaris based SUV thing like LF-SA...

    Don't kill the sedans... Bring us this CT replacement with good looks and build quality since day one!

    And sadly, as @flexus mentioned this might be just to avoid fines in 2022, maybe it will start sales on last quarter 2021, as a MY2022... Three more long years...
     
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  11. LDeleuran
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    I can't speak for others, but that would make me not consider another Lexus as I have had very, very bad experiences with Mazda. The current CT is based on the previous global compact platform, shared with the Prius, Corolla, Avensis, etc. It follows that a new CT would be based on the Lexus version of TNGA (GA-C).

    I find it interesting that the Toyota C-HR was touted as having the best interior of any Toyota ever (people, including the marketing department of Toyota Europe, who ran with this were obviously oblivious to the past, JDM, Land Cruiser, etc.).
    The UX is an even more upscale variant of the same car and has arguably the most upscale interior in its class.
    Now the Mazda 3, which seems to fight for shares in the slightly premium segment (similar to Volkswagen), has a better interior than the UX?! By implication that means better interior than BMW X1, MB GLA, Audi Q2, Toyota C-HR, all C segment cars, and all C-segment premium cars.

    Or did I miss something?
     
  12. maiaramdan
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    All what I mean is that "Toyota can build the CT on the TNGA and can give its own suspension just as Mazda is coming more and more part of Toyota why not make Mazda responsible on engines, imagine the new Skyactive-X with Toyota low torque tweaks, it will be amazing, VAG take tech from all of it's related companies and share among all the corp, Skyactive-X from Mazda, symmetrical AWD from Subaru, TNGA from Toyota be shared" that's exactly what I want to say

    Subaru always has a Scandinavian design line
    Mazda always has a Romance design line
    & Toyota with its generic designs no way they can eat from each other, Again that's exactly what VAG is doing
     
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  13. Will1991
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    Let's wait for some real world fuel economy to see how this Skyactive-X engine performs and see how reliable they are compared to this new engine family from Toyota.

    I would rather have a Toyota engine than a bit more powerful one from Mazda.
     
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  14. LDeleuran
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    Good. Then I understood you correctly, and I wholeheartedly disagree. When you say Toyota has 'generic design', then I believe it reveals your true colors, and I hope you will enjoy your Mazda, or whichever non-Toyota/Lexus car that you prefer.

    Lexus is the luxury division from Toyota. Toyota does not own neither Mazda nor Subaru, nor any other company that is the auto journalist media darling of the week. It is thus a completely different situation than for VAG which controls Skoda and Seat from the top and use them as testbeds for new platforms and technologies.

    You talk about a Mazda 'Skyactive-X' which is a suite of technologies for improving fuel efficiency and emissions. HSD is market leading for real world emissions and fuel efficiency and Toyota invests untold millions in engine technologies where you don't just get good fuel efficiency, but also reliability. See the latest 2.0 for recent improvements. Placing Mazda technologies in Lexus models would be the ultimate disgrace placed upon their greatest engineers.
     
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  15. maiaramdan
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    Bro calm down, we are just negotiating and everyone giving his opinion, by the way I am from the first guys on this website and I have currently 2 Lexus and 3 Toyotas and I even never had a Mazda before that said I am just dreaming to have the best from every world, no one can argue that Subaru symmetrical AWD is second to none, I like the classic Toyota/Lexus before current sporty wannabe designs
    My cars are white GSF, ultrasonic blue ISF, grey 08 Corolla, grey 06 Yaris, silver 10 Camry

    And regarding your point that Toyota do not fully owning Subaru and Mazda, yes you are right currently while we are talking yes this is true but that won't be the situation for long period as nothing stopping Toyota from taking both of them over
     
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  16. isanatori
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    UX 250h price - 8000 € = Corolla Sports 2L hybrid 180 hp.
    ________________
    To be expected
    Toyota CHR 2L hybrid 180 hp price > Corolla Sports 2L hybrid 180hp price

    I agree. It seems to be LF - SA.
    But I would be glad if Lexus ditch the CT and brings the FT HT with the 2L hybrid 180 hp. It will open a new category.
    Don't you think the UX250h is small enough for a Lexus?
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2019
  17. LDeleuran
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    Thank you for considering my state of mind, but I perfectly calm, thank you.

    I challenge statements that I disagree with, and provide my input to support my arguments. Joaquin Ruhi says the Mazda 3 interior feels more upscale than the one from UX, so I lay out observations that would counter this argument. You talk about using Mazda technology in Lexus models, so I lay out arguments why I disagree with those ideas.
    When you say Toyota has generic designs, then that raised an eyebrow as well.

    Now you make a guess that Toyota could fully acquire both companies, after which it makes sense to absorb technologies. However. That goes against the history where Japanese companies acquire minor stakes in each other when they have joint venture projects, or share technologies. I point this out and offer it as a counter argument. I see no indicators that Toyota is on this path.

    Edit
    Just to be clear. I am not saying you or Joachim are wrong. For all I know, Toyota and Mazda could start a joint venture for a new entry level luxury car with Skyactiv engines. I just think it is very unlikely, and explain why I think so.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2019
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  18. Will1991
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    As far as Europe is concerned CT makes a lot of sense, even with 10 years still is one of the best sellers. Also, top-spec CT is cheaper than base-spec UX.

    What I don't get is this LF-SA thing... Not even the German rivals have something like it (bellow UX/X2/GLA...) and they clearly try to create new segments... Even too many in my opinion.

    Lexus usually does things differently, I'm hoping they keep this spirit and improve on it with more AFV's (BEV's/FCEV's).
     
  19. flexus
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    I hope they don't make LFSA B segment luxury is bs. Who even considering buying Q2 or A1. They are not luxury models. DS3 was pure luxury for B segment but too expensive. I vote for CT2. REAL C-SEGMENT HATCHBACK!!
     
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