Discussion in 'Lexus Lounge' started by krew, Mar 23, 2016.
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Well of course they did. You think I would drive two of them if they weren't?
Great win for Lexus!
Like they said, "Lexus has built its reputation on offering supreme luxury combined with incredible reliability, and it’s a combination that puts its brand at the top of all luxury brands." And Lexus was rewarded accordingly.
Well done Lexus, great compensation for the sad Car and Driver review.
When however are Lexus going to face up to the non conforming ES - this model no longer fits the Lexus range it is too obviously a Camry in a dinner suit, front wheel drive etc.
Lexus are up against BM Merc and Audi and all their models have a linear progression e.g BMW 1 to the 7 series - Lexus are all over the place and Toyota need to work on this they have created a wonderful brand with a great name and they must now decide where they want to take it. The new LC range looks amazing but makes the case for the ES demise/radical makeover even stronger. The ES is larger than the IS but it is a cheaper range? It offends my sense of logic!
So your offensive logic states jump straight from a $38,000 IS to a $50,000 GS with nothing in between?
LOL. Take a look at the models that have comprised Lexus's core sales since inception. That would be the ES and the RX.
I own an ES and an IS. I've had an ES330 and two ES350 including my current 2015.
For the typical ES owner and driver, there is NO BMW, Mercedes or Audi that would interest me as a replacement.
For the price Lexus charges for the ES and the features and value received in an attractive and reliable package, no German or Japanese competitor for that matter can match it.
There is almost a daily verbal interaction when out in the Matador Red Mica ES350 with people who approach and comment on what a beautiful automobile it is.
If I want to humiliate the majority of cars surrounding me at a light, the 270HP V6 does just fine, FWD and all.
Ask a Lexus dealer what their sales would look like without the ES in their inventory.
No one should be surprised, Lexus regularly wins awards like this...
I have read your response and would say that is my point exactly - the ES pricing starts below the IS and not above it, it does not fit between the Is and the Gs -I have no doubt the ES is a great car as are all Toyota backed products but Toyota have a vIrtually identical equivalent model in the Toyota brand range minus one or two features - I never thought it would be easy to drop the ES (however it's sales are in decline) but it is the odd car left in what is now a range of exciting more sport orientated vehicles designed to really take it to the German brands and like it or not I believe that is the market Lexus are aiming to capture world wide. So there will be some pain but they need to tackle it and no doubt will I have every faith in their management to continue to evolve the brand sensibly and successfully. Sorry you are unamused I write only my honest thoughts not to upset folk but to simply look at a wider view of a brand that I am a strong supporter of . Happy motoring.
I've owned two Avalons and two ES. There is a difference. I can't see Lexus eliminating the ES, but I think it could be further distinguished from the Avalon and brought more in line with the new character of the rest of the Lexus family.
^ Yes, very much like Toyota Prius vs Lexus CT. I've driven both extensively. The driving experience, sportiness and interior (lux-related) are very different.
You recently mentioned a Cadillac CTS and a 25% oil-change issue at the dealership. Does that mean that you no longer have it?....or that it beings to someone else in your family?
Yes.....I have the GM equivalent of that color on my car, and I get compliments, too. A number of manufacturers use it or its equivalent.....but at least Lexus (to my knowledge) doesn't charge extra for it like most of them do.
The CTS was a failed experiment between ES models. 2011. In 2013, aware the new CTS was coming, we tried our best to negotiate for another but GM pricing went to near $50K for a CTS and the ATS was not good enough for my money.
Went back to Lexus and picked up a 2013 ES350 which became the 2015 I have now.
Yeah, I always laugh at the arrogance of manufacturers to charge for paint when most do not. Chevy, Buick, Cadillac all do.
I don't think the ES has to be eliminated just to fill people's ideas of what is a traditional lineup. This is no longer a world with just the 3/5/7, C/E/S, and A4/A6/A8. We have all sorts of new entry level FWD German cars now, all sorts of even 4 door coupes and coupe SUVs.
Any company would kill to have a product as successful as the ES. It is quite frankly a legendary car and nameplate at this point. Over 25 years of success year after year. While my FWD days might be done, I completely understand why its such a success and amazing product!
This is the bottom line. There's basically nothing Lexus could build in the ES's place at the ES's price that would sell as well as the ES has for the last 25 years. GM, Acura, Infiniti, and soon Genesis would kill for a car like that.
And personally, I think the current ES *does* drive pretty much like I would expect a Lexus half the price of my LS to drive. Honestly I can drive it relatively hard and barely realize it's FWD, as opposed to mid-2000s models where torque steer was pretty much in your face all the time.
Yeah, the ES certainly appeals to a lot of buyers...a friend of mine leases a new one every 27 months. Like you, he's had a 2013 and 2015.
The ATS, I agree, doesn't provide much of a traditional Cadillac ride or refinement, and is not that plush inside, but that stiff-riding chassis gives superlative handling, particularly in ATS-V trim. Review after review now puts it ahead of the latest 3-series in sport-sedan comparisons....and, of course, the migration of the latest 3-series to a more bread-and-butter design doesn't help either.
A number of manufacturers, not just GM, charge for special colors such as the Pearl White and the Crystal Red (which is similar to the Matador Red you have) and similar shades, such as Chrysler's Inferno Red. German makes have been charging extra for ALL metallic paints for years....one of my pet-peeves with them.
I don't like this post. I LOVE this post. It's insane to have to make excuses for the ES series. Were it not for an ES330 in 2006, Lexus would most likely not have become the household car du jour it has become in my family.
If you know anything about me, I am brand loyal to a fault. I drove nothing by two door GM sports cars until the Lexus. Then...2006, 2008, 2010, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2015. That's eight cars in nine years. Until Lexus does something so insanely stupid to lose my business, I have no reason to look elsewhere. And after visiting the auto show on Saturday night, I have a new goal for the future: GS. Matador Red Mica, of course. But I love the ES series, and have absolutely no embarassment putting the keys down to my IS F Sport on Friday night and driving the ES all weekend. It's what I like and more importantly, what I can afford and still remain a Lexus customer. Money no object, I'd have a GS and an RC. But I play within my budget and that ES allows more people to enjoy the Lexus experience at a price affoardable to all.
Let's be realistic here. If you knew what my lease payment has been on my past two ES350's (2013, 2015), you'd spit out your drink. Cadillac and Buick couldn't come close in a heads up comparison price-wise, and there IS no comparison in heads up features between the three. I just don't like or ever consider the German brands and don't care at all for Infiniti. So, Lexus it is. I 100% agree with Mike (and he's been around Lexus more than twice as long as I have). The ES is essential to Lexus's day to day viability as a company.
I once owned an IS300 myself....bright yellow. Kept it almost five years. The chrome-ball shifter, chronograph gauges (and the paint) initially sold me. That IS was built like a tank, but, looking back, I agree with you and wish I had gotten an ES instead. Smoother ride, less road noise (though the IS was generally quiet), better climate-control layout, better winter traction (that was a problem with my IS, even with traction control, all-season tires, and snow-mode for the transmission), and an all-in-all more relaxing car to drive.
Killing the ES plays into a certain kind of logic, but the days of a clean, logical model lineup are done for everyone. I've thought for years that Lexus should eliminate the ES, but no longer, especially given the current ES. That car is superb.
Yellow IS 300, first Lexus I ever drove back in the day. Hey, that would be a good topic on its own!