Lexus GS- Under Appreciated or not Good Enough

[krew]

Actually I've just realized something; when I first started looking into Lexus, I was never shown the GS and at the time I knew nothing of the brand, but I was shown the ES instead. Everyone is correct here in saying it's a bargain and that's why. Honestly, Lexus as a brand would do better killing the ES off, but Lexus as a company will almost undoubtedly suffer. It's actually kind of interesting where the ES is positioned in the market, as there's really nothing that competes with it.

This is the heart of the issue -- no exaggeration, the ES is the perfect car for 80% of the North American population. Comfortable, quiet, extremely fuel-efficient with the ES 300h, spacious, pillowy suspension, easy to drive -- all convenience with little drawbacks (other than that weird hood line in the front that I just don't get).

How do you cancel a car that's near perfect for almost all drivers? It would take a bold move, and despite the performance push, Lexus is not a bold company in that regard. I can't think of an automaker ever cancelling a car that sells.

 

[flipside909]

Every RWD Lexus should have this engine selection, though I'm still a fan of the GS 450h.

I love the GS 450h too and happy we finally get the F Sport. Sadly the car is special order only. How are consumers supposed to know that Lexus offers such a wonderful car like that? The GS 450h is underrated and should be promoted more.

 

[GiantsFan]

I feel the GS should be the volume sedan of choice. With having an Avalon and the ES sharing the wheelbase of the current Avalon, there is too much redundancy. Keep Avalon, axe ES and GS will do a lot better.

Plus GS should be offered in more engines than just the same carryover 10 year old 2GR-FSE. If I was in product planning, the current 4th gen GS would be structured exactly like this:

GS 200t - 2.0L I-4, 8AR-FTS Turbo, 250 hp minimum (for Europe/Asia)
GS 300h - 2.5L I-4 Hybrid, 2AR-FXE, 230 hp minimum
GS 350t - 3.5L V6 Turbo, 2GR-FTE, 350 hp minimum
GS F - 5.0L V8 Turbo, 2UR-GTE - 560+ hp minimum.

I feel the GS F got shafted of its true potential. The 2UR-GSE and AAE80 were directly transplanted from the RC F to save on costs for certification in all the markets and to dodge the gas guzzler tax here in the USA.

Ryan ... I could have not said it better. The biggest shortcoming of Lexus at the moment is engine choices.

 

[CIF]

I would say that for sure the GS is under appreciated, and the most underrated model in the Lexus lineup. I'm glad to see the GS F finally appearing after years of torturous wait. Also it will be nice to see the 2.0T slot into the GS as well.

I do agree that the ES is holding back the GS to some degree. I also agree there is too much redundancy that exists between the Avalon and the ES. Yet, the Avalon, ES, and the GS are all simultaneously selling well, so maybe there is a market for all of them?

To me it makes logical sense to get rid of the ES, focus more effort into the Avalon, and further focus on the GS. Unfortunately I know Toyota won't do it, because the margins on the ES are high.

I will give credit to Toyota though, they have differentiated the ES and GS this generation distinctly enough that both are selling well.

With all that said, on the other hand the ES still appeals very much to the traditional Lexus customer. Also it means something that the ES has been around since almost the brand's birth. It's an older model than the IS for example or the RX. It still maintains the slot in the Lexus lineup as the "baby LS" so to speak. Those that want a large, comfortable sedan but can't afford an LS.

So in summation, I believe from Toyota's point of view, there is enough market room to have both the Avalon, ES, and GS. Once we accept that this is how Toyota very likely views it, then all we can do is hope that Toyota puts extra effort into the GS. With the ES in the lineup, Toyota has to put more effort into the GS to make it more competitive.

I feel the GS should be the volume sedan of choice. With having an Avalon and the ES sharing the wheelbase of the current Avalon, there is too much redundancy. Keep Avalon, axe ES and GS will do a lot better.

Plus GS should be offered in more engines than just the same carryover 10 year old 2GR-FSE. If I was in product planning, the current 4th gen GS would be structured exactly like this:

GS 200t - 2.0L I-4, 8AR-FTS Turbo, 250 hp minimum (for Europe/Asia)
GS 300h - 2.5L I-4 Hybrid, 2AR-FXE, 230 hp minimum
GS 350t - 3.5L V6 Turbo, 2GR-FTE, 350 hp minimum
GS F - 5.0L V8 Turbo, 2UR-GTE - 560+ hp minimum.

I feel the GS F got shafted of its true potential. The 2UR-GSE and AAE80 were directly transplanted from the RC F to save on costs for certification in all the markets and to dodge the gas guzzler tax here in the USA.

Or perhaps a stop-gap until the next-gen engines are ready? I totally agree as well that Lexus is not realizing the true potential of the GS. I hope Akio Toyoda is aware of that.

I also don't want to dabble into far off rumors, but I can hope that something like a Lexus "FS" line is in the cards, or is being discussed. Then the regular "F" models would start to make a whole lot more sense.

 

[CIF]

Chase one of my complaints from the outside looking in is salesmen look for the easy sale and a white/beige leather ES is the default sedan for these guys. Its not just Lexus salesmen, most are not car enthusiasts at all, its a job to them and they look at it as such. Contrarily the rare car salesman who is an enthusiast will find all sorts of ways to upsell to a GS.

My first Lexus was an ES 300 (manual) but I quickly fell in love with RWD and never looked back...

I think that's another key for Lexus. In order for the brand to achieve a higher level of status and prestige, then dealer salesmen must be held to a higher standard. The only question is whether Toyota has the ability to implement higher standards and make dealers compliant in enforcing higher standards for salesmen.

 

[spwolf]

i cant wait to graduate to GS300h or GS450h in few years, maybe even next one... hopefully my next car!

 

[Roger Rabbit]

And that's why the ES will never be cancelled.

Yup, plus the ES sells to the older community and that is Lexus's niche right now.

Not the younger crowd. Has always been like that.

 

[krew]

So in summation, I believe from Toyota's point of view, there is enough market room to have both the Avalon, ES, and GS. Once we accept that this is how Toyota very likely views it, then all we can do is hope that Toyota puts extra effort into the GS. With the ES in the lineup, Toyota has to put more effort into the GS to make it more competitive.

The situation is much better since Lexus made the ES larger -- it's very clear that the ES is meant to be a cruiser while the GS is a proper sports sedan.

The GS is going to get a much needed sharpening with this year's update, and that might be the final nail in the "ES steals GS sales" train of thought.

 

[flipside909]

i cant wait to graduate to GS300h or GS450h in few years, maybe even next one... hopefully my next car!

I wouldn't mind having a GS 300h F SPORT here in the USA. I'll take 500+ mile tank ranges all day!

 

[krew]

I wouldn't mind having a GS 300h F SPORT here in the USA. I'll take 500+ mile tank ranges all day!

The GS 300h would be my first pick in the lineup if it was available in North America.

 

[mikeavelli]

Lexus has arguably the best driving car in class here, very engaging to drive and it fared very well in all reviews. Lexus does need to offer more engine choices, a base A6 is a 210hp I-4, CVT, FWD car no one seems to bash for existing lol. BMW has the 525 before you jump to 535 which competes with the GS 350. Its amazing when you think about it that the GS actually sells decent considering it has two engines, one that is ten years old and the other which is a special order hybrid.

 

[krew]

Lexus has arguably the best driving car in class here, very engaging to drive and it fared very well in all reviews. Lexus does need to offer more engine choices, a base A6 is a 210hp I-4, CVT, FWD car no one seems to bash for existing lol. BMW has the 525 before you jump to 535 which competes with the GS 350. Its amazing when you think about it that the GS actually sells decent considering it has two engines, one that is ten years old and the other which is a special order hybrid.

The decision to not bring the GS 300h & IS 300h to North America is something I will never understand. Holding out hope that the 300h engine will be introduced with the GS update later this year.

 

[Onelog]

The decision to not bring the GS 300h & IS 300h to North America is something I will never understand. Holding out hope that the 300h engine will be introduced with the GS update later this year.

Amen to that! I've been drooling over the IS300h since they first talked about it and just hope with every announcement that they're going to bring it to the US. Even if it's just like the NXh where it's only a 10% build or something, I'll make sure I get one, hah.

 

[mikeavelli]

FYI GS sales were up in 2014 over 2013 and 2015 seems to be up over 2014.

 

[GSCT]

Nice review of the GS F in Motor Trend - http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1501_2016_lexus_gs_f_first_look/ - suggesting they are impressed and "get it" despite not having segment beating horsepower. Appreciation is growing.

 

[Lasse J. Nordvik]

I haven't driven any of the GS' rivals so I can't comment on the GS compared to the E-class,5-series,A6 and so on,but I can comment that on the two occasions I've driven a GS 450h F Sport I was giggling like a deranged smurf,so for me the GS is plenty good enough!

 

[Nuum]

Lexus puts the GS in the line up just to filled in the gap between IS and LS. Majority of Lexus owners ( I mean 90%) are buying Lexus because of its luxury, dependable, comforts and customer services. Those customers not even know what is 0-60 means. A maintenance light on the dash comes on means time and money for them
I think they did a good job designed the GS exterior and interior while playing it safe by using the old GR engine and drive train from previous gen GS to avoid another major engine recall.
You will not see a lot of GS on the road because Lexus rather makes money selling their bread and butter RX, ES, IS and then the NX and GX. I think the GS, LS, CT, RC and LX only make up 20-25% of the sale.

 

[Lasse J. Nordvik]

Lexus puts the GS in the line up just to filled in the gap between IS and LS. Majority of Lexus owners ( I mean 90%) are buying Lexus because of its luxury, dependable, comforts and customer services. Those customers not even know what is 0-60 means. A maintenance light on the dash comes on means time and money for them
I think they did a good job designed the GS exterior and interior while playing it safe by using the old GR engine and drive train from previous gen GS to avoid another major engine recall.
You will not see a lot of GS on the road because Lexus rather makes money selling their bread and butter RX, ES, IS and then the NX and GX. I think the GS, LS, CT, RC and LX only make up 20-25% of the sale.

With respect,I think you're selling both the buyers and makers of Lexus cars short. I think most Lexus buyers are more savvy and enthusiastic about design and performance than perhaps they used to be. Lexus is changing and becoming bolder and more avant garde and so the customer base changes accordingly. The notion the the effort Lexus puts into a product varies according to projected sales just doesn't hold water at all,I'm affraid. Lexus always strives for excellence and they never settle for a slapdash model portfolio filler. GS sales here in Norway are quite modest,but that's because tastes and prefernces vary and change and that whole segment is in decline.

 

[mikeavelli]

I wonder will the MMC bring s new 2.0 GS and a new V6?

 

[LexusTechSA]

Lexus puts the GS in the line up just to filled in the gap between IS and LS. Majority of Lexus owners ( I mean 90%) are buying Lexus because of its luxury, dependable, comforts and customer services. Those customers not even know what is 0-60 means. A maintenance light on the dash comes on means time and money for them
I think they did a good job designed the GS exterior and interior while playing it safe by using the old GR engine and drive train from previous gen GS to avoid another major engine recall.
You will not see a lot of GS on the road because Lexus rather makes money selling their bread and butter RX, ES, IS and then the NX and GX. I think the GS, LS, CT, RC and LX only make up 20-25% of the sale.

The original GS was launched long before the original IS