Lexus ES Sedan to Debut World's First Digital Side Mirrors

Discussion in 'Lexus Lounge' started by LexusTechSA, Sep 12, 2018.

  1. LexusTechSA
    LexusTechSA Founding Member
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  2. LexusTechSA
    LexusTechSA Founding Member
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  3. krew
    krew Administrator
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    Ray99 likes this.
  4. OlFius
    OlFius Founding Member
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    The last 2 photos are horizontally mirrored, see Lexus logo and license plate.
    Someone an explanation for this?
     
  5. spwolf
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    i would think it is all photoshops for press pics, not real pictures yet
     
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  6. Ray99
    Ray99 Founding Member
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    I love it. Very cool. :cool:
     
  7. Ray99
    Ray99 Founding Member
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    Hopefully, it will be standard options in other part of the world too.
     
  8. Carmaker1
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    A lot of people are going hard at criticizing Lexus for this system, calling it cheap or tacky, answer to a problem no one needed. It's unusually pathetic, especially in also comparing its implementation to a $100k USD Audi E-tron. Especially on Auto Blog, TTAC, and Jalopnik (crap site). If MB did this, I doubt one would hear much complaining. Was there such criticism regarding the Audi system? (in terms of uselessness?)

    A lot of these critics are unusually obtuse or trolling, the same way they were with APGS/IPA in 2006-07. Lexus is now the only premium brand not to offer an automated parking assist system. Why is that? Too much criticism or was it affected by Remote Touch interface? They pioneered automated parking for production vehicles in 2003, yet dropped out of the game in 2012, only offering it on 1 Lexus model IIRC.

    Ironically, Toyota also pioneered the rear view camera in 1987 for production automobiles (seen on JDM Lexus SC*) and ultrasonic parking assist in 1982 on the JDM Corona. In fact, look at the feature list for both the 1982 Corona and 1991 Soarer. Just amazing for their time!

    Why isn't Lexus like this though with innovation, as in ahead of the game? That's how good the first LS 400 was, where the JDM version introduced voice GPS navigation on the facelift XF11 in 1992. They spend so much on R&D, yet...

    1982 Corona Back Sonar System ,
    4cf6eacs-480.jpg

    c3f6eacs-960.jpg

    (1994 UZZ32 Example)
    reversecamera.jpg
    UZZ32

    Unfortunately Toyota's innovation got overshadowed globally by competitors in Infiniti (Q45 in March 2001) and BMW (E32 7-Series in March 1992).
    tumblr_n5klc97RiT1tbirnuo1_1280.jpg
    [​IMG]

    Even front facing splitview camera was already being offered on Japanese market cars as early as 2003 (Honda and Nissan as well), later inspiring BMWs Sideview 2008 system on the F01 7-Series. Even the LX 570 launched the WideView and Side View Camera (right side only), almost parallel to Nissan's 360° AVM.


    Go 4:15 to see 2008 LX System in Action
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3iQaXhgNxA
    Kudos to Lexus for doing this. but how about the digital rearview seen in Cadillac and Nissan/Infiniti that switches between mirror and digital LCD?
    Does this JDM offering still have 2 extras cameras below the mounting for the 360° camera system?

    Lexus Panoramic 360°
    2011-lexus-lx-570-side-mirror-camera.jpg
    (2008 LX 570 Side View Cam)


    My only anger is, since WHEN did the ES become the Lexus flagship? Wasn't the LS supposed to debut this originally? Why are they behaving like the LS is some CLS type niche model and the ES is a (successful) RLX-type FWD flagship?

    What bothers me about Toyota at Lexus is a failure to execute a proper top down approach to their model range. There's no reason why the RAV4 has more equipment in some areas than the facelifted NX. This company has the ability to innovate for its brands, but has slowed down at times in some senses.

    This new system is a step in the right direction, but should go beyond the ES and should be already on the LC and LS. The LF-LC already favoured being mirrorless. Don't let global competitors get the jump on you, as Nissan and BMW did once.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
  9. spwolf
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    As you know, Japanese are very pragmatic.

    I remember when sipa was just introduced in Prius in Europe, 10 years ago... I don't think anyone ever ended up using it. It was just too eeerie to let car do everything on its own.

    New UX has sipa in Europe if i remember correctly.

    They also recently announced update to mav dystem for some domestic car, maybe crown, where if back camera is dirty from rain, you can move fingers across screen quickly and i guess camera motors would move to shake the water out. Thought it was interesting.
     
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  10. spwolf
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    btw @Carmaker1 did you notice that digital rearview mirror was announced for Rav4 in Japan a month ago or so?
     
  11. ssun30
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    The worst part is not their lack of innovation, but them keeping so many of the cool features JDM-only. And that's something they have been doing since the Bubble Era.
     
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  12. spwolf
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    I was actually quite surprised that now they are putting a lot of features into US models too... before Toyota's there were pretty stripped.

    Chinese market seems to get all the goodies.

    Rav4 for Europe will be announced soon with more info on available levels, so lets see if digital rearview mirror is there.
     
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  13. Joaquin Ruhi
    Joaquin Ruhi Staff Member Moderator
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    In the case of the outside rearview cameras in lieu of mirrors, part of the problem is that they are still illegal in the United States. The laws as written require an actual, physical mirror. Both Audi (whose outside cameras in the upcoming e-tron SUV are also banned here) and Lexus have petitioned NHTSA for a change in the laws, but they don't seem to be coming anytime soon.
     
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  14. Ian Schmidt
    Ian Schmidt Staff Member Moderator
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    I've said it before, Toyota/Lexus likes to debut new tech on lower-end cars to make those buyers the beta testers. I suspect their "inspiration" was the BMW iDrive debacle, wherein new 7-series customers were treated to things like the transmission randomly slamming into reverse when you tuned the radio. A lot of them probably marched over to their Mercedes dealership after experiencing it.
     
  15. krew
    krew Administrator
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    This is the new Lexus, for better or worse, and sales in the USA validate the strategy. Dealerships are struggling with the LS & LC (both of which have distinct personalities that require some salesperson storytelling), especially when they're used to the ES & RX flying off the lots. Add the fact that no one wants a car in this market, and there's little reason to debut new tech on the two $75k+ flagships.

    Honestly, the new ES could be the best selling luxury sedan in the country (excellent design, modern features, exceptional price point).

    EDIT: Please forgive my US-centric views, but it remains the largest market for Lexus sales in the world. :D
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
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  16. Gecko
    Gecko Staff Member Administrator
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    All of this is true, it's just hard to watch and seems to speak to the fact that LS was either over baked, half baked or something else. ES debuts with CarPlay, Alexa, digital side mirrors, and soon, a better (torque vectoring) AWD system. Notice that LS reviews were plagued with media complaints about infotainment, but on ES, it seemed to be a footnote at best. Digital side mirrors are just plain cool and would have been a notable feature for LS debut.

    I understand the rapid pace of progress in this industry, but for the amount of time it took to come to market and the fact that it costs double the ES, the LS should have really debuted all of these things first.
     
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  17. Gecko
    Gecko Staff Member Administrator
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    It's really a discussion for another thread, but you sum it up very well here. I know I will have many who disagree with me for saying this, but if you look at the separation between Toyota and Lexus, it's less now than it ever was. Short of LC and LS, I see very little reason to upgrade to Lexus from Toyota - part of that is age of the Lexus lineup vs Toyota, but the other part of it seems to be this new "Toyota-first" approach that debuted with TNGA.

    Notable tech debuts:
    TNGA (Prius)
    Apple CarPlay (Avalon)
    Amazon Alexa (Avalon)
    Dynamic Torque Vectoring AWD (Rav4)
    All-new Dynamic Force M20A-FKS 2.0L I4 (Corolla Hatch)
    All-new Dynamic Force A25A-FKS 2.5L I4 (Camry)
    All-new Dynamic Force 2.5L hybrid system (Camry/Avalon)
    All-new 10AT (LC)
    Mostly-new 3.5L "500h" hybrid system (LC 500h)
    All-new Dynamic Force V35A-FTS TT V6 (LS 500)
    Digital side mirrors (ES)

    I would not spend my own money to buy:
    ES over Camry
    GS over Camry
    RX over Highlander
    NX over 2019 Rav4
    LX over Land Cruiser
    RC over Supra

    The only products I see real appeal in are IS (RWD, accessible price point), GX (V8/6AT over 4runner V6/5AT), GS F, LS and LC.

    GS used to be the one model that was middle tier for Lexus, and got you into a product that was truly "Lexus" for ~$40-45k. Now, Camry has caught up or surpassed it before GS goes away. The only real reason to buy ES/RX over Toyota is if you like how they look and feel, because Camry, Avalon and Highlander are technically identical. I have big hopes for the 4IS and want it to be a car that brings true Lexus engineering to the entry level/midsize price point.

    It's beating a dead, rotting horse at this point, but LS debuting with a V8 would have helped to move the brand further away from Toyota. LC F and LS F will help, but Lexus' core tiers are literally at the risk of becoming "luxury Toyotas" which is the stereotype we've all been fighting for two decades.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
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  18. spwolf
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    Not really.

    It has nothing to do with LS or ES or NX. TMC puts technology like this inside vehicle when it is available.

    Digital rearview mirrors were available when ES is coming out, as such they could do engineering on that vehicle for it. For LS, it has to wait until refresh.
    Same goes for CarPlay.

    Do you really think they should have delayed these features until LS first had them?

    Same goes for AWD... do you think Lexus LS should not have had AWD because year later they are building some torque vectoring setup for ES?

    By that account, any innovation in Lexus can only happen every 3-4 years when LS is refreshed.

    They are reserving things like 500 and 500h for LS/LC, but other minor things will certainly not wait, nor should they.
     
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  19. spwolf
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    - Supra is not on sale for another year
    - LX is considerably nicer vehicle than LC, and honestly LC in US makes 0 sense at all.

    So basically Lexus should have delayed RC for 4 years until it can come out after Supra?

    What happens when NX in 2 years has a lot more luxury and tech than Rav4 does next year? That is going to be 5 years of NX having a lot more features and tech.
     
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  20. Gecko
    Gecko Staff Member Administrator
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    ^All of this just speaks to poor product planning. Period.
     
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