Discussion in 'Lexus Lounge' started by supra93, Mar 27, 2018.
RIP my beloved car, ES will never take the high end GS and there will be a big pricing gap between the top ES and the base LS
so the 300b program rumored was never existed?
Is there a chance that maybe lexus was planning on a four dour coupe (replaces GS) under a different name scheme?
Lexus sells very few GS's per year in Europe... I would guess most are GS300h "Business" fleet vehicles where ES will compete much better. So it does not make sense to have both vehicles next to each other. If new GS comes out as sedan/coupe like LS, then it will have its place.
So Lexus Europe sold 76.602 cars, 1763 of them being GS, in 2017.
I have been in touch with @Carmaker1 within the last few days and I don't think he would mind me sharing with you what he told me: "The 300B programme still shows up as SOP Q2 2019 in some industry-access places ... A new GS-F in development doesn't make sense, if it is going to die altogether." He also pointed out that the gap between the ES and the $75k LS, left indefinitely, is not workable.
So let us think positively ... this report concerns production of the current GS in Europe only.
oh my god NO!!! okay, so the "GS death" rumor has been swirling around awhile now, but thats always what i thought it was. just rumors. but if the GS is getting canned in europe, im afraid we may be next, which would be a cryin shame. of all the sedans the GS-350 F-sport is my absolute favorite, of the "normal" cars. its a perfectly rounded, sleek styled well fitted sports sedan that handles better than anything else. it feels almost as good as a real standard transmission in auto-stick mode, has a wonderful snarl to it when pushed and is just awesome all the way around. EVERYTHING IS AWESOME about the 4GS.. well, minus the 200t... sorry, i just cant get behind that. i wasnt a real fan of the 3GS as a whole, but the old GS460 was a monster and crazy rare. loved the 2GS as well, but the current one is just so perfect. a FWD/AWD ES will NEVER be a GS!!!! dont get me wrong, i like the ES, but it isnt RWD. (something ive been praying for that wont probably ever happen) i know the GS isnt a huge seller like it used to be, but it will be a very very sad day for myself and many others if they kill the GS.
in this case, it is ES taking current GS300h place in Europe, with GS being later reborn as as 4 door coupe.
In Europe it makes sense to cut it since having two cars of similar size and price currently does not make sense when GS sells 150 copies per month across 20+ countries. It takes floor space and dealer funds.
Funny enough, it was both myself and Kevin/krew made this cancellation rumour garner global publicity. That was because I found it in December 2016, doing some reading of Japanese-text Mag X on holiday. It wasn't krew until reported on it in April 2017, that the auto media barely even "noticed" anything regarding the GS. Now it seems I have to continue doing the opposite. To be blunt, it is really give or take here.
I myself was shocked by a revelation I had to make regarding Nissan's Z, which I had long heard about being redesigned. Lexus could easily pull an Infiniti (or Nissan) and infinitely delay new product in that area, like they have with IS-F and GS-F (was in planning for two generations).
You saw what I had to reveal about Nissan's Z35 being canceled a few months ago, yet know no one has reported on that reality and instead are saying a "400Z" is coming to Tokyo 2018. SMH. Media can and will be lied to, if convenient in the present and can easily do the lying themselves.
Lexus can and will have a hiatus between generations, but how big of one is the question? How do they expect a new nameplate, FWD saloon to succeed in Europe, when Honda's own Legend (RL) and Accord (TSX) were killed off? The closest competitors to the ES in Europe. Wouldn't an RX be a more attractive propositon, rather than wasting marketing expenses in creating a new market for the ES?
The biggest concern was why they took so long (and pretty much still haven't), to introduce a 7-8 seater Lexus for mainland Europe and the UK? My cousin's husband, who works for Toyota UK, was unnerved that his RX450h couldn't seat 7-8 people nor did Toyota sell anything like that brand new for him at either brand (as in Kluger/Highlander). Yet it is somehow more pressing, to dump the GS in Europe and then introduce the ES there, instead of a GA-K or GA-L based 7-seater.
I look forward to seeing how this all plays out over the next 2 years. Other than Volvo, this segment feels very dead in regards to FWD based midsizers. Fleet-spec Bimmers/Benzes/Quad Ringers have more market presence, which explains the failure of the GS in Europe.
Yes, the L10 generation was to end production in 2018 originally and then be replaced at the end of year. When I saw a change in dates, to April 2019 SOP for the next one and other info, I had great expectations.
I really didn't want to touch this subject in the meantime, until I spoke with some Toyota people and got absolute confirmation (aside from dealer folks).
It wasn't rumoured. I plainly have no reason to make up something like that, as these cars are development for years before introduction. What is deeply happening with it at every step of GS product planning and development, is something very few people have access to outside of Japan.
Another nameplate though, I am not certain about that. Different nameplate and execution isn't a GS replacement, that would plainly be an entirely new model.
Even the new Peugeot 508 is less of a FWD sedan like Passat, but more like a FWD A5, like Arteon. From the spy pics the ES looks a lot more sporty than comfortable. Have to wait and see.
I dont think Europe cares about their fleet saloons being FWD or RWD. Most Audi's these days are FWD models with 2.0l diesel. Used to be 3.0 TDI AWD... So ES will fit there well enough and sell substantially better than GS ever had... of course, it will sell nothing like NX or RX, but if price is right it will sell better than IS.
I dont think 7 seater is a big deal here in EU. They sell Highlander in Russia and even LX, which is a best seller there, but these cars are too big and too expensive for Toyota EU.
p.s. Toyota/Lexus Europe has sold: ES, LX, Highlander in Russia for a long time now. Toyota Russia has two factories that produce Land Cruiser and Camry too (to what extent, I am not sure). It is quite possible that next generation Highlander with 300h powertrain will sell in rest of the Europe, just like the current rumor is that new Camry will take Avensis place in Europe.
Current Highlander simply had no powertrain that could sell here.
Toyota did the integration of 8AR-FTS into the Highlander. It's just too big for Europe.
it is also not interesting - 2.0 turbo petrol engine with 250hp is not interesting vehicle in EU - we can see that Lexus has 98% of EU sales being hybrid despite 2.0t being available in many countries - nobody cares about relatively high CO2 petrol engine. 300h would be interesting with low CO2.
also current Highlander would be too heavy for 200hp hybrid... so I guess they also plan to put it on diet.
Lexus Europe Planning to Discontinue GS Sedan?
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Yes, the GS will be discontinued in Europe. Yes, the new ES is finally coming to Europe. And yes, the turbocharged engines of the IS/RC/NX/RX models are also canceled – at least in most parts of Europe
Where do you have the info about the turbo models from? Without the 2.0 turbo the IS and NX only have the 300h engine here! The 2.0 turbo accounts for 10% of IS, 29% of NX and a lot of RX sales - it makes no sense to pull it. Are you sure it is not just confusion with the 200t models being rebranded as "300"? The engine remains the same - we are not getting the detuned 3.5 in the IS for Europe.
I like the GS and I've owned a number over the years. I just can't get excited about the plans for the ES. Quite honestly, I like the AMG S63, it's much more expensive than the GS would be, but the ES will not be a performance car, where the GS tried to be and was, in a sense, in its price range. I understand that the GS doesn't sell,so it's best from a business POV to let it go, but Lexus will be missing an important part of this segment that BMW and AMG/Mercedes will continue to dominate. I morn the loss of the GS and what they might have made the GS F into