Lexus Considers Trimming USA Vehicle Lineup

[maiaramdan]

@spwolf , sooner or later they must change their current mentality

I believe Toyota will buy all Subaru, Mazda and Honda on time frame but they will leave every entity separated at all

It will not be VAG model, but surely it will happen that way to have a powerful conglomerate against the others especially the Chinese whom have a lot of funds already

 

[krew]

The only ones I can see getting the ax here in the US is the GS, RC, and LC. I think Lexus is learning there's a cap what a Japanese manufacturer can command for a Luxury car, regardless of how well it's built. This is why LC sales are poor. People with 8 Series/S-Class coupe money just aren't interested in spending that money on something from Japan. Same goes for the LS to some extent. The europeans make that a very hard class for Lexus to compete in. As for the RC, people just don't seem that interested.

I just can't believe that the main reason the LC & LS aren't selling well is racism. Problems with the LS are well-documented (engine, rear-seating, etc), but the only issue with the LC is the inflated sales goals that Lexus USA published.

Bracing for the next recession and hoarding enough cash to buy out the rest of the Japanese auto industry when they fail. Mazda and Subaru will probably just get absorbed outright. And it is very unlikely Honda will survive the next recession when they are bleeding money like now

This is scary crystal-ball stuff. Depressing too. But also likely true (though there's no way Toyota will be the one buying Honda).

 

[Gecko]

If Toyota actually wanted to buy and assimilate competitors, Subaru probably makes the most sense, followed by Mazda. With both as mainstream brands, it would be a very easy path forward and they already have joint ventures with both. Buying Honda makes little sense, especially because Acura is completely worthless to Toyota.

 

[ssun30]

This is scary crystal-ball stuff. Depressing too. But also likely true (though there's no way Toyota will be the one buying Honda).

That reply was poorly worded to sound like I suggest Toyota buy Honda, which is definitely what I didn't mean to say. There's no way Toyota can swallow a company half their size. Subaru and Mazda are much more manageable at 10% their size.

Akio Toyoda will be more than happy to see Honda bleed out. The company would probably even raise a statue for him to commemorate 'the man who saw Honda dead' :laughing:

 

[Ian Schmidt]

Buying Honda makes little sense, especially because Acura is completely worthless to Toyota.

They could sell the ES and RX as Acuras and reserve "Lexus" for RWD/AWD vehicles. But yeah, not gonna happen.

 

[maiaramdan]

@Ian Schmidt , RWD full Lexus lineup is my dream man, but I think it will never happen that way

And honestly as I said before even if Toyota takeover any of the 3 aforementioned they will keep them totally independent subs with just 1 or 2 projects interested

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

They could sell the ES and RX as Acuras and reserve "Lexus" for RWD/AWD vehicles. But yeah, not gonna happen.

Loveliest idea I've ever heard!! But to be honest the RX and ES are too good for Acura anyways. I'd keep them close.

@Ian Schmidt , RWD full Lexus lineup is my dream man, but I think it will never happen that way

And honestly as I said before even if Toyota takeover any of the 3 aforementioned they will keep them totally independent subs with just 1 or 2 projects interested

Naw, in fact Mercedes-Benz/AMG/Maybach need to take lessons from Lexus. FWD anemic sedans/SUV's are wayyy better than legendary RWD based vehicles. Right?? Also, isn't having a way slower production process better than a manufacturer that listens to the demand of the people and releases a car at will (does not have to wait for the "market")? There's a reason why Lexus has the most sales worldwide and have the hearts of many people while Mercedes are at the level of Lincoln, Acura (dare I say Genesis). -->

Spoiler

SARCASM

 

[Ian Schmidt]

FWD anemic sedans/SUV's are wayyy better than legendary RWD based vehicles. Right?

Mercedes is potentially leaning into the same problem: the GLA is their huge seller, and it's got even less in common with their "legendary RWD based vehicles" than the RX does the LS. And they've been making noises about pruning the lineup, so we'll see what happens.

 

[spwolf]

Loveliest idea I've ever heard!! But to be honest the RX and ES are too good for Acura anyways. I'd keep them close.



Naw, in fact Mercedes-Benz/AMG/Maybach need to take lessons from Lexus. FWD anemic sedans/SUV's are wayyy better than legendary RWD based vehicles. Right?? Also, isn't having a way slower production process better than a manufacturer that listens to the demand of the people and releases a car at will (does not have to wait for the "market")? There's a reason why Lexus has the most sales worldwide and have the hearts of many people while Mercedes are at the level of Lincoln, Acura (dare I say Genesis). -->

Spoiler

SARCASM

except that everyone is doing the same as Lexus, or actually worse... they all first expanded their cheapest FWD vehicles and are only now following with top end models (while MB is considering cutting some).

 

[ssun30]

Counter point: BMW's biggest seller (X1) in the world's biggest market (China) is a transverse FWD vehicle, and with a three cylinder.

Lexus could totally make a FWD Inline-3 crossover in a few years and make tons of cash and there's nothing we can do about it. Sometimes we just have to live with the fact that the world is far from a perfect place.

 

[maiaramdan]

Guys I like these data and agree with all of you on it but

1) neither BMW / Benz have mainstream car maker to support in those categories, so they need to make it by there own, and if they have that they will never thought about putting FWD in those names.

2) they still have the best marketing 3 categories cars in RWD 3/5/7, C/E/S

Some will start comparing Lexus to Audi and honestly anyone comparing Audi to Lexus as if he comparing Oranges to Apples

Lexus was handsome luxurious RWD and must be the same forever

Let all the mainstream categories for Toyota

 

[Trexus]

Lexus does have Toyota which sells vehicles for the mainstream and Toyota makes tons of money. Lexus has the financial backing of Toyota which means Lexus could do lots with it's lineup. Since Ford is discontinuing all of it's sedans/cars with the exception of the Mustang Toyota should increase it's lineup because all those would be Ford customers have to go somewhere and they can go to Toyota. Ford Five Hundred (Taurus) will be discontinued, now those potential customers can purchase an Avalon. Ford Fusion will be discontinued, now those potential customers can purchase a Camry and so on regarding the rest of the discontinued Ford lineup. I'm sure when Ford discontinued the Ranger some of those customers probably purchased a Tacoma.

As I mentioned before Lexus should increase it's hybrid lineup to increase it's hybrid presence. Most people don't know Lexus has hybrid vehicles.

CT 200h/250h(M20A-FXS) - bring back a second generation with an updated hybrid engine

HS 250h - bring back a second generation with an updated hybrid engine, updated spindle grill and position below ES 300h
ES 300h(A25A-FXS) - Fine the way it is
LS 500h - Fine the way it is

IS 300h - bring to North America for an entry level sporty sedan with fuel economy
GS 300h/450h - bring back a fifth generation with an updated hybrid engine to fill the mid-level sporty hybrid sedan

RC 300h - bring to North America to sit along side the LC 500h as entry level hybrid coupe
LC 500h - Fine the way it is

UX 250h - Should do very well
NX 300h - Is doing very well
RX 450h/450h L - Started the hybrid CUV craze
LQ 500h - brand new hybrid flagship CUV

As for Audi, they have Volkswagen to back them up.

 

[maiaramdan]

^^^
Agree, but unfortunately, Lexus current lineup is just another Toyota

 

[TheNerdyPotato]

I've seen some discussion here on discontinuing the GS and having the IS fill that role. What if they do that and then introduce a 2-seat compact RWD coupe?

 

[spwolf]

I've seen some discussion here on discontinuing the GS and having the IS fill that role. What if they do that and then introduce a 2-seat compact RWD coupe?

IS stays IS... we already know it wont grow significantly.

Who is the market for 2 seater RWD coupe? Forum dwellers? I mean BMW had to develop their Z4 with Toyota to make it viable.

 

[TheNerdyPotato]

Who is the market for 2 seater RWD coupe? Forum dwellers?

Yup. I'd be the target market, assuming it's well priced. Something like a cross between a Miata and an IS. That 8AR could actually be kinda sporty if it's not lugging around a 3,500lb+ car.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

neither BMW / Benz have mainstream car maker to support in those categories, so they need to make it by there own, and if they have that they will never thought about putting FWD in those names.

That's not strictly accurate though - in Europe BMW and Benz *are* mainstream full-line car makers, complete with dumping certain models on fleets.

 

[spwolf]

That's not strictly accurate though - in Europe BMW and Benz *are* mainstream full-line car makers, complete with dumping certain models on fleets.

pretty sure 99% of the E class buyers could care less if it is FWD or RWD... never heard regular MB owner talking about that... only BMW owners do, and a lot of their new vehicles are going FWD. And yes, it is a fleet car in Europe... like a (much) nicer Camry.

Not just taxies in Germany, E/A6/5 is what you buy as larger family/business car in Europe, or your company buys it for you, and there are big discounts and great lease prices. It is a reason that midsized family sedans disappeared in Europe, why buy Ford when for similar price you can drive new 3 series.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

Not just taxies in Germany, E/A6/5 is what you buy as larger family/business car in Europe, or your company buys it for you, and there are big discounts and great lease prices. It is a reason that midsized family sedans disappeared in Europe, why buy Ford when for similar price you can drive new 3 series.

Right. They *are* the Detroit Three of Europe, which was my point.

3 series would be a terrible family car though, at least by American standards. By the time you wedge a couple of 6-foot adults in the front there's no room in the back.

 

[spwolf]

Right. They *are* the Detroit Three of Europe, which was my point.

3 series would be a terrible family car though, at least by American standards. By the time you wedge a couple of 6-foot adults in the front there's no room in the back.

good enough for us here... that is why germans like wagons.

Basically a deal price for 3 series in past 10 years was pretty much similar to mid-spec Passat/Avensis/C5/508, etc, hence dissapearance of many of midsized vehicles. People just end up buying premium brand, even if it is with cloth interior and halogen headlights.