Introducing the All-New 2018 Lexus LS 500 & LS 500h

Berto3818

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@spwolf do you thik there will be gains to the hybrid. it seems huge gains already been made. I'm talking about power. its at 354 total right?
 

Berto3818

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it is very possible that the LS gets the TTV6- hybrid because as of recent reports the new LX600 is getting it.
 

ssun30

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My experience with the 500h multistage system is that it's very responsive to the point power ramps up too quickly at high throttle input that makes it feel jerky. But I guess it would depend on drive mode and battery charge level.
 

Berto3818

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@ssun30 I heard they made it better. I’m going to look at it. I think they are doing TTV6 and making it a hybrid. That will be easily close to 500hp
 

James

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They TTV6 hybrid sounds good I guess especially with 500 hp but I don’t know I like hearing the engine sound. Oh well if they come up with that and a TTV8 I’m good!
 

Berto3818

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@James With the TTV6 Hybrid i think that sound will be gone. I think the TTV8 will be avail but only for the F model. I do think they are an will hybridize the TTV6 and will see it next year. Figure 416 base and then throw in the electric motors we are looking at close to 500hp. They will be doing in on the new LX so that is the proof.
 

Berto3818

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@Ian Schmidt yeah buddy!!! I'm waiting because I'm sure if the new LX is going to get the 3.5 plus hybrid the LS will get it also and thats what i will get.
 

Rydo

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There will be a V8 - it's just going to cost $100k or more, so basically, you'll be able to buy an LS F for about the same price as a decently optioned S560.


Me waiting for the V8 5LS...

I've just spent the past few days re-reading this thread from start to end seeing as I am cooped up in the house at the minute thanks to coronavirus measures here in Scotland.

I think it's quite interesting to see this kind of sentiment early in the life the 5LS - that of "yeah, don't worry guys, LS F/V8s are coming". Yet here we are 3 years later...and there's still nothing.

The LS+ was a bizarre concept, because it basically was like the LF-FC idea but in the 5LS body, and with a horrible grille. Someone earlier in the thread said that the LS+ was very similar to the LF-FC, even more so than the 5LS. They couldn't be more wrong. The LS+ is nothing more than a 5LS with horrid front end treatment and a full-width rear taillight. I'd much rather see the full width rear light kept as a CUV/SUV design motif and not make their way onto other offerings too - Lexus has been very good to avoid the cookie cutter approach of the Germans.

Something else gets me in the thread too, just how many people, myself included obviously, who still look back at that LF-FC concept with nothing but utter admiration. I know there are those in this thread who still try and maintain that 5LS is 90% of the LF-FC concept, but that just isn't the case. The LF-FC looked absolutely perfect from every angle, to every person. The British motoring media were gushing with praise for it, and although that's hard to explain to anyone who doesn't live here, that means an awful lot.

The 5LS on the other hand, was of course met with some admiration from diehard Lexus fans, to whom Lexus can do very little wrong, but overall, a lot of people were disappointed.

Looking at the 5LS 3 years later, I can see that it looks nice. It's a nice car. But it's not jaw-dropping. The LF-FC was jaw-dropping.

Sales numbers for this LS are poor because it doesn't have a V8. There's absolutely no point in pretending that increased performance numbers matter here. A V8 is a V8 is a V8. People have a fascination with V8s, and to say it has a V8 engine just sounds so much better than a V6. Split hairs over performance etc all you like, but that is what it boils down to. I've heard Jay Leno praise his Chrysler Imperial for having a V8 and not the 6 cylinders of the Mercedes of the era. I've watch Robbie Coltrane present a whole documentary on the V8...not the V6.

And before I sign off, what on earth is the new Toyota Mirai? Is that the LS+ changed into a Toyota product?
 
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Carmaker1

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Me waiting for the V8 5LS...

I've just spent the past few days re-reading this thread from start to end seeing as I am cooped up in the house at the minute thanks to coronavirus measures here in Scotland.

I think it's quite interesting to see this kind of sentiment early in the life the 5LS - that of "yeah, don't worry guys, LS F/V8s are coming". Yet here we are 3 years later...and there's still nothing.

The LS+ was a bizarre concept, because it basically was like the LF-FC idea but in the 5LS body, and with a horrible grille. Someone earlier in the thread said that the LS+ was very similar to the LF-FC, even more so than the 5LS. They couldn't be more wrong. The LS+ is nothing more than a 5LS with horrid front end treatment and a full-width rear taillight. I'd much rather see the full width rear light kept as a CUV/SUV design motif and not make their way onto other offerings too - Lexus has been very good to avoid the cookie cutter approach of the Germans.

Something else gets me in the thread too, just how many people, myself included obviously, who still look back at that LF-FC concept with nothing but utter admiration. I know there are those in this thread who still try and maintain that 5LS is 90% of the LF-FC concept, but that just isn't the case. The LF-FC looked absolutely perfect from every angle, to every person. The British motoring media were gushing with praise for it, and although that's hard to explain to anyone who doesn't live here, that means an awful lot.

The 5LS on the other hand, was of course met with some admiration from diehard Lexus fans, to whom Lexus can do very little wrong, but overall, a lot of people were disappointed.

Looking at the 5LS 3 years later, I can see that it looks nice. It's a nice car. But it's not jaw-dropping. The LF-FC was jaw-dropping.

Sales numbers for this LS are poor because it doesn't have a V8. There's absolutely no point in pretending that increased performance numbers matter here. A V8 is a V8 is a V8. People have a fascination with V8s, and to say it has a V8 engine just sounds so much better than a V6. Split hairs over performance etc all you like, but that is what it boils down to. I've heard Jay Leno praise his Chrysler Imperial for having a V8 and not the 6 cylinders of the Mercedes of the era. I've watch Robbie Coltrane present a whole documentary on the V8...not the V6.

And before I sign off, what on earth is the new Toyota Mirai? Is that the LS+ changed into a Toyota product?
Interesting post. My theory is that the LS+ design changes were reflective of the 2020 GS. There has been plenty matched to a 5th Gen GS rendering and the Mirai itself, in hard points. As I study more about Mirai development and launch plans, a lot of things point to them hitting a rock wall in late 2016 with a new GS and then shifting to Mirai over the course of several months in 2017. I at the time wasn't aware.

A complex fuel cell vehicle like that will take three years to go from concept to production. I believe when they showed the LS+ in 2017 at that point, they now knew what was going on with the Mirai vs GS. Mirai had been quickly designed off of new GS, but not yet fully engineered as typically expected (you need many phases of prototypes to be ready).

My question to myself is why did they show the LS+? It never made sense to me as a concept version of a future LS facelift, as the timing seemed very off.

I really believe that Lexus was going to introduce a new avant-garde design language with the 5th gen GS in 2019 and when that didn't happen a number of things shifted. Gen 5 LS and Gen 7 ES had a language of theirs distinct to it despite being very brand new, but GS was meant to revolutionize some things at Lexus.

The LF-1 almost replicates that styling language, yet it seems as if it just might drop off and no longer be utilized. I eagerly await some future Lexus models to see why and where that design language came from.

I hope what I said made sense.
 

Rydo

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My question to myself is why did they show the LS+? It never made sense to me as a concept version of a future LS facelift
Exactly. We were all lead to believe that as 5LS was signed off before LF-FC concept, and that LF-FC concept had a much higher reaction than that of the 5LS, that the 5LS would be refreshed quickly to take into account a lot more of the design language of the LF-FC.

What happened in reality was that they released that LS+, which looks worse than the 5LS IMO, and then it totally died a death very quickly in terms of buzz. It's like it never happened now. When the Mirai was shown, my jaw hit the floor, because in my view that was the LS+ but made production car and for Toyota. Bizarre.

I have never considered the LS+ to be related to the GS, but thinking now, I agree there could be links there. At first, the 5LS was uniquely styled but when the ES launched, I was pretty deflated to see it was basically a 5LS without the mesh grill but remarkably similar in many other ways. It robbed some of the speciality of the 5LS. And now the GS is to follow in very similar footsteps too.

As for LF-1, I think I made comment on that over on its own thread. It's just another example of Lexus's absolutely murderously slow transition from concept to production. Someone made comment that the NX concept and production car were a little over a year apart. If we are lead to believe that Lexus has the production car 95% ready, shows the concept, and then produces what they had planned all along, then why on Earth are we 4 months into 2020 almost without even a hint of a production LF-1. Meanwhile, Audi Q8, refreshes to that hideous Benz offering and BMW X6 have all happened. It's just frustrating to see.
 

Carmaker1

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I'm going to respond to Rydo soon, but I have a conference call coming up very soon on U553 MCA program.

For now I do want to point out that the advent of an LS F looks like it's dead to me. There have not been any trademarks filed as of 2020 and therefore it is too late, unless it arrives at the end of 2022 as a 2023 model. A 2024 LS-F just wouldn't work, based on expected LS lifecycle.

Do they plan to create a different kind of performance LS instead with electrification or FCV?
 
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mikeavelli

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I'm going to respond to Rydo soon, but I have a conference call coming up very soon on U553 MCA program.

For now I do want to point out that the advent of an LS F looks like it's dead to me. There have not been any trademarks filed as of 2020 and therefore it is too late, unless it arrives at the end of 2022 as a 2023 model. A 2024 LS-F just wouldn't work, based on expected LS lifecycle.

Do they plan to create a different kind of performance LS instead with electrification or FCV?
I am under the general assumption a LC F, LS F and LX F are coming.... we are all curious whats going on with the "LQ" crossover flagship. I assume a LQ F would come.

But who knows at this point.

A LS F would make me drool tbh......
 

Gecko

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I personally think LS F is out at this point. An LC F will cover the ground for a performance flagship with a lot more appeal, and there is probably no case to be made for LS F with low sales of the base model. 1-2 years ago from internal employees, I heard a lot of discussion about LC F and brief mention of LS F, but noting concrete. Since then, there's been a little more discussion of LC F but absolutely nothing about LS F.

LX F/LF-1 F... definitely. That is where the money is right now.

With so many of Lexus' core products seeming delayed, discontinued or in jeopardy, I keep asking myself what real strategy they have around F. No current IS F, rumor is "no" for 4IS, no ES F, GS/GS F going away, RC F is old now and we only have Mazda collaboration rumors, no F SUVs and not sure FWD platforms can support it, etc.

It seems possible that we could just have an RC F at the end of this year, and then maybe LC F alone in 2022.
 
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I personally think LS F is out at this point. An LC F will cover the ground for a performance flagship with a lot more appeal, and there is probably no case to be made for LS F with low sales of the base model. 1-2 years ago from internal employees, I heard a lot of discussion about LC F and brief mention of LS F, but noting concrete. Since then, there's been a little more discussion of LC F but absolutely nothing about LS F.

LX F/LF-1 F... definitely. That is where the money is right now.

With so many of Lexus' core products seeming delayed, discontinued or in jeopardy, I keep asking myself what real strategy they have around F. No current IS F, rumor is "no" for 4IS, no ES F, GS/GS F going away, RC F is old now and we only have Mazda collaboration rumors, no F SUVs and not sure FWD platforms can support it, etc.

It seems possible that we could just have an RC F at the end of this year, and then maybe LC F alone in 2022.
A LC F is coming later this year or early next year. This news is already out. A70TTR from SupraMkV stated this around last year.

Specs:
- 4.0L twin-turbocharged V8
- 10-Speed Automatic
- 700 horsepower in shakedown testing
- ~640 horsepower for the production model
- Considerable weight savings
- Jury's still out on the drivetrain

This V8 will definitely inject new life into the brand, but for the next while you guys have to bear the drought for a little longer.
 
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spwolf

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I personally think LS F is out at this point. An LC F will cover the ground for a performance flagship with a lot more appeal, and there is probably no case to be made for LS F with low sales of the base model. 1-2 years ago from internal employees, I heard a lot of discussion about LC F and brief mention of LS F, but noting concrete. Since then, there's been a little more discussion of LC F but absolutely nothing about LS F.

LX F/LF-1 F... definitely. That is where the money is right now.

With so many of Lexus' core products seeming delayed, discontinued or in jeopardy, I keep asking myself what real strategy they have around F. No current IS F, rumor is "no" for 4IS, no ES F, GS/GS F going away, RC F is old now and we only have Mazda collaboration rumors, no F SUVs and not sure FWD platforms can support it, etc.

It seems possible that we could just have an RC F at the end of this year, and then maybe LC F alone in 2022.
I have no idea is it coming or not, however so far I think that they will be using these F models as marketing for the brand and not as something they will make money on.

In that sense, LS-F seems reasonable bet.

In general their strategy is a lot more F in the future. Of various kinds... I saw an rumor of UX getting 270hp version of GR Yaris engine... which makes a lot of sense to me, where they have something akin to SQ3 and not RSQ3.
 
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