How Tesla defined a new era for the global auto industry

Will1991

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Tesla keeps pushing forward :

Model S Plaid is getting really close to have the same range as a ICE with more than 520 EPA miles:

They still keep the same old platform but still, really pushing it.

Tesla also announced a 25.000 USD car in 3 years:

Drove a Model 3 LR the other day, I know understand it... Still far from Lexus quality, ergonomics and design, but is unmatched at that price point.
 

Will1991

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I totally agree with you @Gecko !

And Tesla is a good example, even with updated software, they looked so much into the “tech stuff” they forgot everything else... Just look into a 2012 Model S interior, specially the seats... I struggle to believe it has little more than 8 years...

On the other end we can look into the 1999 Lexus IS speedometer, even today it looks good.
 
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That's the thing, Tesla started all of this in the car world.

Being like any other Silicon Valley company, all they focus on is being disposable. I can't think of a company that has intentionally made cars disposable by design for their customers to then move on to the next best thing (okay does Ford count with the Pinto? LOOOL).

These things are not phones or computers. You can't just treat cars as if they're a disposable product, or just because you build cars with disgusting panel gaps and build quality issues doesn't mean that you can just throw them away after a few years. So much for saving the environment FFS.
 

Sulu

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Placing all automotive controls within the touchscreen is no longer just an obsolescence issue, but a reliability and failure issue, and so it is a safety issue.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) in the USA recently forced Tesla to recall 2012 to 2018 Model S and 2016 to 2018 Model X vehicles to replace the infotainment touchscreen, which could fail (the failure of the touchscreen is caused by failure of memory chips).


The agency said touchscreen failures posed significant safety issues, including the loss of rearview or backup camera images, exterior turn-signal lighting, and windshield defogging and defrosting systems that “may decrease the driver’s visibility in inclement weather.”

Many Tesla vehicle automotive controls are only accessible through the touchscreen -- and in the latest, proposed update of the Model S, even the transmission control is now on the touchscreen. Imagine if the infotainment touchscreen were to suddenly fail in a new Model S -- the driver would not even be able to shift the transmission out of gear.

I am not familiar with how automakers source and produce their electronics but I am familiar with how the aviation industry does it. Aviation electronics (avionics) producers use electronics chips and components that have been proven reliable (the risk is then that the components are not the newest, state-of-the-art electronics) and then stock large quantities of such components to lessen the risk of such components suddenly going out of production, allowing for a stock to produce replacements before a completely new design must be produced.

If the automotive industry is not already following the aviation industry model, it is perhaps time to do so, to avoid the obsolescence and sudden failure issues.
 

Will1991

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@Sulu , to be fair the new S/X will use a new IA to predict if you want to change direction (Forward/Reverse and Left/Right), they also let the turning signals stalks go away.
Tesla did a lot of great stuff, a simple Model 3 test drive and everyone feels why it’s so loved... But it sound like the neural network to predict if you need, and how fast you need the rain wipers thing... In the end it doesn’t work very well and a properly working rain sensor that you can have on a Aygo would be bad?
 
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Sulu

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@Sulu , to be fair the new S/X will use a new IA to predict if you want to change direction (Forward/Reverse and Left/Right), they also let the turning signals stalks go away.
Tesla did a lot of great stuff, a simple Model 3 test drive and everyone feels why it’s so loved... But it sound like the neural network to predict if you need, and how fast you need the rain wipers thing... In the end it doesn’t work very well and a properly working rain sensor that you can have on a Aygo would be bad?
Will the AI be able to read the driver's mind to know when they may want to change gear, in a situation that is not intuitive to the AI?
 

Will1991

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Exactly, I also some big doubts it’s going to work... I don’t think it was a clever move removing this components.
 

IS-SV

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Waiting to see what’s actually released (on the S) to production.
For now the free publicity for Tesla about this and yoke wheel is priceless. .
 

Sulu

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Exactly, I also some big doubts it’s going to work... I don’t think it was a clever move removing this components.
It does not matter how "smart" the various parts of the drivetrain are or how smart the vehicle is, if all controls for the drivetrain and the vehicle are only available through a single touchscreen, that touchscreen becomes a single point of failure. If and when that touchscreen fails -- and it may fail due to the failure of an inexpensive memory chip -- all controls fail (even if the components being controlled can still operate).

In every other industry, we try to avoid single points of failure -- even the Internet is able to route traffic through different nodes to avoid stopping all traffic due to one slow or failed node -- yet it seems that the automotive industry is going towards a single point of failure.
 

LS500-18

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I went from a Prius (2008) to plugin Prius (2013) to Tesla (2015) to another (second) Tesla (2018) and then back to Lexus LS500 and a RAV4 Prime in the garage now. I drove Tesla for almost 6 years.

These cars are exciting so I see how people get sucked into the hype. But... their main product is hype. Look how many things they talk about and don't deliver.

Anywho, I had enough of the quality issues and endless promises they don't meet so I switched back to dependable vehicles. I know for a fact that Teslas are obsolete within a few years as that happened to me twice. The cars are fun but they are not something you'd want to own long term. For so many reasons. Slow touchscreens that crash (I had that), battery degradation, charging slowed down via a software update, never able to meet rated range except in the city in summer, Elon always dangling the carrot in front of you about what's coming but rarely comes through, etc. Putting everything in the touchscreen is dangerous, there is no doubt to me.

Tesla has disrupted the auto industry but I don't think I'd buy another. I'm not anti-EV or anti-Tesla but I will spend my money elsewhere where the company treats their customers better and has the quality thing figured out. For now it's R4P and LS500 and if Lexus comes out with a good PHEV I'll jump on that too (not SUV though). I will go back to EV when the DC fast charger infrastructure is better here. Too many compromises still.
 

maiaramdan

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Thank God I am really Anti-Tesla
Let's say Tesla for me is the Apple of Automotive
The Battery is from Panasonic, the first factory was already the NUMMI factory of Toyota
And then everyone giving all praise to Tesla, just for a soulless dash with a cheap screen
 

IS-SV

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I really appreciate LS500-18's actual/6 years hands-on experience with 2015 and 2018. He was a somewhat early adopter of these Tesla vehicles, he put up with a slew of unacceptable issues. And Tesla has burned bridges with a number of early adopters (S and X models mostly) , as noted by LS500-18. But as of 2021 it doesn't matter much.

Tesla is a game changer in the automotive industry and every industry executive knows it whether they admit it or not. For example in the US the Model 3 easily outsells 3 series, C-class, A4, IS,. Interesting enough the take rate on leases was only 7% on Teslas sold in Q1 2021 (that's a separate topic later).

My ownership experience with 2 Model 3's (model year 2020 and 2021) has resulted in far fewer issues (2 to be exact, both fixed under warranty via mobile service in 25 minute visit) listed below:
1. Drivers side door alignment on the 2020.
2. Trunk latch too tight on the 2020.

btw - Like others here I do greatly enjoy high performance free-revving gas engine soundtracks.
I'm bored with wheezing 4 banger turbos that exist for EPA gas mileage compliance, because they literally have the characteristics of a torquey econo box diesel..
I prefer a fast EV over another mediocre turbo-laggy 4 banger.
 

LS500-18

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I really appreciate LS500-18's actual/6 years hands-on experience with 2015 and 2018. He was a somewhat early adopter of these Tesla vehicles, he put up with a slew of unacceptable issues. And Tesla has burned bridges with a number of early adopters (S and X models mostly) , as noted by LS500-18. But as of 2021 it doesn't matter much.
Glad to share. Can't say I agree they still don't have quality issues. They certainly still do for the first year models out the door, I would avoid them for sure. Like the Cybertruck, you'd have to have mashed potatoes for brains to get one of the first. Or at least live close to a service centre. Or be a YouTuber. LOL


 

IS-SV

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Glad to share. Can't say I agree they still don't have quality issues. They certainly still do for the first year models out the door, I would avoid them for sure. Like the Cybertruck, you'd have to have mashed potatoes for brains to get one of the first. Or at least live close to a service centre. Or be a YouTuber. LOL


I did not say they don’t have quality issues, I just shared my actual ownership experiences like you did (and I did not repost the usual common Internet stuff).
To your point, I agree first year builds (meaning first couple thousand built) are best avoided w/Tesla’s. Early Model 3 (2018) and Y (2020) builds support that, many of those cars were delivered with unacceptable fit/finish problems.
 
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IS-SV

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With the ongoing brake failure disaster in China I wouldn't say they changed anything. Their behavior is utterly unacceptable.
Yes, for sure. Just about every major automaker (including Toyota/Lexus) has been accused of high profile safety issues. Tesla’s supposed brake failure disaster is hardly original or a game changer, it’s happened before in recent automotive history. (And EV sales in China soar, Tesla easily sold over 50000 cars in China in Q1.)