German Big 3 automakers emissions cheating disaster Master Thread

IS-SV

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Might reach or top 30 billion if you consider the interest lost on the money they are (or will be) paying out.

Shareholder lawsuits/settlements will likely exceed $5 billion and are directly attributed to fraudulent actions.

Interest lost is not and cannot be directly attributed when audited financial results are published. And interest lost is not a concern (interest rates are low and cash reserves low), since VW increased borrowing and incurred more interest expense which is costly.
 

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mikeavelli said:
Good read....

I read that piece, Mike. I could be wrong, but I still think that the whole scandal originated with Ferdinand Piech. Piech was exactly the kind of manager that could get the company into hot water like this. His management style (and orders to his subordinates and engineers) was to basically accomplish something any way you can, legal or not...either do it, and bend the rules if you have to, or find employment somewhere else. Bob Lutz writes about the time he sat next to Piech at a dinner for auto executives. Lutz remarked to Piech about how much better the latest VWs he saw looked in terms of fit/finish and panel-gaps. Piech answered........"So, Bob, you like those results, Eh?" Lutz asked him how it was done so quickly. Piech went on to say that he called all of his top managers and engineers together one day, told them all that he was tired of looking at sloppy workmanship, and told them that they had six weeks to start producing better-assembled vehicles or turn in their resignations. Lutz, of course, went on to say that he simply could not run GM that way...it was far too brutal. GM, of course, DID end up making major improvements in their vehicles.....but not by that method.

I strongly suspect that's what happened at VW.......Piech probably told his diesel engineers to meet American and European emission standards any way possible, even of they had to fudge some figures or bend the rules. That also might (?) account for the fact that VW TDI diesels did not require the use of the periodic urea-solution refills that the larger Mercedes and BMW Bluetec diesels did.

The rest, of course, is history.
 
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mikeavelli

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I read that piece, Mike. I could be wrong, but I still think that the whole scandal originated with Ferdinand Piech. Piech was exactly the kind of manager that could get the company into hot water like this. His management style (and orders to his subordinates and engineers) was to basically accomplish something any way you can, legal or not...either do it, and bend the rules if you have to, or find employment somewhere else. Bob Lutz writes about the time he sat next to Piech at a dinner for auto executives. Lutz remarked to Piech about how much better the latest VWs he saw looked in terms of fit/finish and panel-gaps. Piech answered........"So, Bob, you like those results, Eh?" Lutz asked him how it was done so quickly. Piech went on to say that he called all of his top managers and engineers together one day, told them all that he was tired of looking at sloppy workmanship, and told them that they had six weeks to start producing better-assembled vehicles or turn in their resignations. Lutz, of course, went on to say that he simply could not run GM that way...it was far too brutal. GM, of course, DID end up making major improvements in their vehicles.....but not by that method.

I strongly suspect that's what happened at VW.......Piech probably told his diesel engineers to meet American and European emission standards any way possible, even of they had to fudge some figures or bend the rules. That also might (?) account for the fact that VW TDI diesels did not require the use of the periodic urea-solution refills that the larger Mercedes and BMW Bluetec diesels did.

The rest, of course, is history.

Entirely possible. He's the guy that told the press the Bugatti would make 1,000 hp and the engineers fainted lol. Its no different than the fiasco at Wells Fargo where employees were pressured to add unwanted items to customer accounts to hit targets and add revenue.

Its still a bit funny to me how this seems to been hidden under a rug. I still remember how forums and people wanted Toyota to die over something that they were eventually found not guilty off.
 

IS-SV

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^ Good comparison to Wells Fargo, a toxic and unethical corporate culture from top down allows something this big and wrong to infect much of the company.
 

mmcartalk

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^ Good comparison to Wells Fargo, a toxic and unethical corporate culture from top down allows something this big and wrong to infect much of the company.

Somewhat of a comparison, but not exactly. Wells-Fargo set up a system of fake accounts that did not really exist, where VW corrupted something that already did exist. But, regardless, lies are still lies.......your point is taken.
 
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IS-SV

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Somewhat of a comparison, but not exactly. Wells-Fargo set up a system of fake accounts that did not really exist, where VW corrupted something that already did exist. But, regardless, lies are still lies.......your point is taken.

Lol, not that a discusion of whether something "did exist" has anything to do with the topic here, or is even accurate.

And you are not correct, Wells accounts setup without customer permission illegally did exist even if only temporarily. For example many customers received a credit card unexpectedly because an account did exist.

Note: Wells Fargo already "did" already have policies/procedures requiring customer permission for opening new accounts, management decided to cheat.

And now back to topic (VW)...
 
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mmcartalk

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Lol, not that a discusion of whether something "did exist" has anything to do with the topic here, or is even accurate.

And you are not correct, Wells accounts setup without customer permission illegally did exist even if only temporarily. For example many customers received a credit card unexpectedly because an account did exist.

Note: Wells Fargo already "did" already have policies/procedures requiring customer permission for opening new accounts, management decided to cheat.

And now back to topic (VW)...


You yourself said it was a good comparison to Wells Fargo....though I'll admit that comment was made some time ago.

IS-SV said:
Good comparison to Wells Fargo, a toxic and unethical corporate culture from top down
 

maiaramdan

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Somewhat of a comparison, but not exactly. Wells-Fargo set up a system of fake accounts that did not really exist, where VW corrupted something that already did exist. But, regardless, lies are still lies.......your point is taken.


Ok your definition of something did not exist
We can say its VAG of france as they give numbers not exist
And I think its not only france
 

mmcartalk

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Ok your definition of something did not exist
We can say its VAG of france as they give numbers not exist
And I think its not only france

???

I'm not quite sure I follow you.....this scandal goes way beyond just France.
 

mmcartalk

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I mean this

Well, another day.....another scandal. Just like clockwork.

This may retain again no.1 manufacturer to Toyota

Well, as I see it, when one gets to be the size of VW or Toyota, it probably makes little difference who actually winds up in first place. That's like saying that a city with twenty million people is larger than a city with nineteen and a half.....true on paper, but of little significance in real life.[/QUOTE]
 
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mmcartalk

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Mike, the point I was making is it seems higher ups (now being charged and making guilty pleas) seem to have known and possibly pressured engineers to make this illegal solution. We may never know all the facts.

Bob Lutz is convinced that Ferdinand Peich was behind it, if not directly, then indirectly, by his Do-it-or-Else management style. I tend to agree.
 

mmcartalk

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I was surprised to see the letters "TDI" appear in the Audi A8 press materials because of this.

Perhaps for other markets?

VW/Audi diesels are on hold in the U.S. until further notice, though the Audi reps at the D. C. Auto Show said there was a small, outside we could seem them here again for 2018.
 

mmcartalk

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A shame, because, IMO, Audi makes some great products....with excellent fit/finish. And Audi now ranks very close to the top in Consumer reports' reliability-by-brand list....up with Toyota/Lexus, Buick, and Kia.
 
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