Did Lexus cheap out on the ES?

phoenixss

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Seems like Lexus went on the cheaper side with the ES.

Some of the traditional finishing touches inside are missing, headliner material is not as soft to the touch and no folding mirrors ????? How much did lexus save on each car? 50$

Lexus needs to be careful and stay the line with signature feature. I've notice on the UX the steering wheel is not electrically adjustable... what a fiasco.

Lexus needs to smarten up if they want to retain their prestigious cachet.
 

RAL

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Even our NX has retractable mirrors ... it seems Lexus saves some goodies for the refresh.
 

phoenixss

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Heard a theory that Lexus will put folding mirrors on SUV and only on high end LS. unconfirmed
 

mmcartalk

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With one exception (a mid-generation interior facelift for the 2010 model year to improve the trim a little, from customer complaints), Lexus has been steadily cheapening the ES since the superb 4th-generation model, which IMO was the best ES ever done, ended production in 2006.
 

RAL

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With one exception (a mid-generation interior facelift for the 2010 model year to improve the trim a little, from customer complaints), Lexus has been steadily cheapening the ES since the superb 4th-generation model, which IMO was the best ES ever done, ended production in 2006.
While I have to admit there are more hard plastics in the 7ES interior, I have to respectfully disagree with you. A friend at Lexus Southern recently confided the trend across the entire industry is toward an expansion of interior hard plastics. That said, I find the 7ES interior and moreover the entire car a vast improvement over previous generations. I find the 7ES to be the quietest best driving ES yet.
 

mmcartalk

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While I have to admit there are more hard plastics in the 7ES interior, I have to respectfully disagree with you. A friend at Lexus Southern recently confided the trend across the entire industry is toward an expansion of interior hard plastics. That said, I find the 7ES interior and moreover the entire car a vast improvement over previous generations. I find the 7ES to be the quietest best driving ES yet.


Likewise, I respect your view....you have made some good posts over the years. I did do a test-drive, though, of the latest 7Gen ES with the 45-series tires, and found it had substantially more road noise and a firmer ride than the 4Gen, and, to some extent, even more so than the 5Gen and 6Gen it just replaced. However, an Avalon XLE that I also test-drove, with the 55-series tires, was noticeably better on the road than the 45s. And, yes, the same 55s come standard on the base ES model, so the base ES can be expected to be a little more refined. Still, even so, I have not impressed with the the interiors of any of the ES models since the 4Gen.
 

RAL

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Likewise, I respect your view....you have made some good posts over the years. I did do a test-drive, though, of the latest 7Gen ES with the 45-series tires, and found it had substantially more road noise and a firmer ride than the 4Gen, and, to some extent, even more so than the 5Gen and 6Gen it just replaced. However, an Avalon XLE that I also test-drove, with the 55-series tires, was noticeably better on the road than the 45s. And, yes, the same 55s come standard on the base ES model, so the base ES can be expected to be a little more refined. Still, even so, I have not impressed with the the interiors of any of the ES models since the 4Gen.
I've had quite a bit of experience with multiple generations of the ES; and as far as I am concerned there is no comparison. Opinions are relative, but I admire your tenacity.
 

mmcartalk

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I've had quite a bit of experience with multiple generations of the ES; and as far as I am concerned there is no comparison. Opinions are relative, but I admire your tenacity.


Thanks, but I wouldn't call it tenacity. I just go by what my own eyes, ears, and seat-of-the-pants tell me.
 
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The new 2019 ES 350 F Sport is my third Lexus. I owned a 1st Gen ES 300 in 1995 and the GS 300 AWD in 2007. Of all my Lexus automobiles, I think the new ES 350 F Sport is the best. The ML audio system is pretty impressive and I have been having a blast driving country roads in TN using the F Sport mode and paddle shifters. The AWD GS was super solid navigating New England winters but this new ES is extremely fun to drive while still maintaining the smooth ride and reliability Lexus is known for. I have only had this new Lexus for a couple of months so I will report back if I think the quality standard doesn't meet expectations.
 

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@Greg1967: Likewise, my LS500 really comes to life on back country roads (in MD in my case). I can understand why people in cities don't like it as much, but the fun factor for me is off the scale. I'm hoping to get a new ES as my loaner next time I'm in for service so I can slide right on into that debate above :p
 
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No folding mirrors in USA? Here at Spain, and I'm prety sure that is the same in all western europe, all ES have folding mirrors. And mine will come complete with anti-fog and electro chromatic mirrors.
About interior quality, I think it's superb. May be some hard plastic somewhere (a few ones really), but I see similar ones in the new BMW serie 5 and Mercedes clase E (in the same price level a lot more), and those brands are more expensives to buy and to maintain. And with the new regulations those can't drive in the downtowns a lot of days by year.
 
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@Greg1967: Likewise, my LS500 really comes to life on back country roads (in MD in my case). I can understand why people in cities don't like it as much, but the fun factor for me is off the scale. I'm hoping to get a new ES as my loaner next time I'm in for service so I can slide right on into that debate above :p

At the end of the day, you got a LS. Definitely the best sedan Lexus makes. :D

I hope Lexus stops cheaping out a little on the small features. While without a shadow of a doubt it is the best ES made, it's no GS.
 

zeusus

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Seems like Lexus went on the cheaper side with the ES.

Some of the traditional finishing touches inside are missing, headliner material is not as soft to the touch and no folding mirrors ????? How much did lexus save on each car? 50$

Lexus needs to be careful and stay the line with signature feature. I've notice on the UX the steering wheel is not electrically adjustable... what a fiasco.

Lexus needs to smarten up if they want to retain their prestigious cachet.

I think you mean Lexus needs to smarten up if they want to satisfy your personal needs? Because the new ES is selling like hotcakes in every market it lands in. There must be some disconnect between your niche "enthusiast" expectations and the rest of the consumer market.

Other than the subjective nature of the complaint, do you have any objective evidence of "missing finishing touches" and headliner not being as soft? Soft as opposed to what? Did you compare the two directly? or strictly going off memory or what somebody else said?

Did the ES previously come with power folding mirrors?

Which market are you making this complaint in?

Did you measure any gains in value in other areas of the car?
 

mmcartalk

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Seems like Lexus went on the cheaper side with the ES.

Some of the traditional finishing touches inside are missing, headliner material is not as soft to the touch and no folding mirrors ????? How much did lexus save on each car? 50$

Lexus needs to be careful and stay the line with signature feature. I've notice on the UX the steering wheel is not electrically adjustable... what a fiasco.

Lexus needs to smarten up if they want to retain their prestigious cachet.


I have to agree with phoenixss....either you're going to do an upscale product or you aren't.
 

RAL

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Upscaled or not? ... Moto-Man has 200k subscribers on Youtube. His review goes beyond subjective opinion and is quite revealing regarding the 'upscaling' of the 2019 ES 350. His comments at 2:50 are particularly telling as he decribes how the 7ES is not just a re-badged Avalon. His comments at 5:34 draw stark comparison to previous ES generations. Indeed, I encourage watching the entire video because he details how the 7ES is vastly improved! He nails it at 10:22!

 
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Seems like Lexus went on the cheaper side with the ES.

Some of the traditional finishing touches inside are missing, headliner material is not as soft to the touch and no folding mirrors ????? How much did lexus save on each car? 50$

Lexus needs to be careful and stay the line with signature feature. I've notice on the UX the steering wheel is not electrically adjustable... what a fiasco.

Lexus needs to smarten up if they want to retain their prestigious cachet.


During the launch of the new ES we were told that Lexus is aware that customers/dealers are asking for folding mirrors and that it's likely the ES will offer it down the road.

Also, not sure if you're comparing apples to apples but I have to disagree with you that Lexus cheaped out on the new ES. I would argue that it's a vast improvement over its predecessor and the best value in Lexus's lineup (as well as its competition).
 
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New here as I just picked up a 16 ES350 Lux, Safety, Nav, Cold Weath (really wish I could have found ultra lux with Pw Trunk model but they are rare used in this area). But I did plenty of research and testing of what could and could not be gotten. I can not speak to the 19s but what it seems Lexus chose to do with this model which they see as their entry into the Lexus Luxury line was to make many of these standard features mentioned as "missing" instead options. The point was to offer a lower base price point to get into a Lexus but still get most all the lux things just as options.

The head liner: If you get the Lux or Ultra Lux is soft and plush.
Lux for real leather and Ultra . You get the AC/heated Seated etc

In fact the only option I see that is missing and only in certain markets is the power folding mirrors. Most markets got the pwr fold mirror. Europe Asia got them and CL has pic of the option button from models over there. Not sure how having one option missing on a clearly lower entry model is going cheap on the entire model line. You could easily just make the Lux Nav package the base model and move the entry price point up then would people be happy as its now more Lux model worthy?. What really going cheap is when you can not get the options or the price goes up with no new anything and they cut options or quality.



In 2017 they made all the safety + features standard on the ES350 and added Lane Keep as well.

I recall and was reading thru old threads when Lane Departure Alert, with Steering Assist first came out for the ES everyone swore there was not any steering effect and complaining like crazy even though it was right in the name. But it was there. People just confused it with Lane Keep which is used with the Cruise Control radar. which was added a yr later.

Every Lux manf is going to have a entry or lower level models. Option dif have to be to there as well if they want to meet a entry price point. BMW, Benz, Audi, Acura, Infiniti all have the same or similar type vehicles so how is Lexus slipping in the Lux vehicle arena if everyone else is doing the same? The A4 Audi did not have pwr folding mirro as an option at least a couple yrs back whne I looked at them. Not only that but the price point was way higher than a equiv Lexus used same miles and options. When I looked into further it was the same thing as the ES in that it was a USA market thing. Power folding mirrors were not available for B8 or B8.5 A4s/A5s in the US. Genesis for 15-16 did not have 360 top view camera but only in the USA market and that thing had every bell and whistle for its time and even at todays standards.

Get into a Avalon and then get into a ES350 of the same yr and there is no question which one is the Lux vs the basics consumer level vehicle. I could have purchased a basically new loaded Avalon very low mile one yr old for the same price as the 3 yr old 30K mile ES luxury etc. After driving and looking at layout fit and finish there was no question. I got Lexus.

Is it a LS? no of course not and it also does not carry the 2x price tag either. But compared to your normal model brands it is without a doubt a Lexus luxury vehicle.

Consider also That Lexus has made CPO warranty unlimited miles as well as the VSA I could be wrong as I am far from experienced with owning Lexus but I think this was not always the case. I would go so fa as to say its one of the best warranties you can get for CPO and VSA on it "CPO Platnium Wrap". IMO regardless of your view on CPO and factory extended warranties in general Lexus has what has to be the best. I had to check 3 different references to be sure the unlimited mileage and it being a LFS VSA was not a mistake. Who does unlimited mileage? Normally best you can get is 10/120. If you average like many DD does f 30-35K per yr. A CPO with a 4yr wrap you will still have bumper to bumper coverage past 200K. That is insane with all the Electronic tech and the cost of repairs for it.

On he down side Lexus has to be one if not the slowest when it comes to being current with the various software apps and those sorts of functions. Only now are they getting android auto and only select models. Extremely limited music apps. Taking away Pandora in vehicle that came with it. No spotify etc. total rip off in todays world for Nav map updating. Its akin to trying to charge for long distance today and at 80s rates. People would just laugh at you. Whats worse is these are extremely easy things to address but Lexus is just stupid stubborn in these areas and it hurts them IMO. Its sad I have to install a GROM V2 just to get the functionality I was from the headunit. Further Car manf need to start offering frnt rear dash cams as part of the OEM package so they can be integrated to the electronics system and builtin to the body/interior panels as an option.

Anyways jut my observations and opinion from a new guy that bought his first Lexus. Actually more for my wife but I find myself driving it more than I thought.
 

RAL

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Welcome @tarm ... Congratulations on your ES ... and thank you for your thoughtful commentary!