Cadillac CT6/CT6-V Thread (Update: No more 2.0T)

Gecko

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Cadillac CT6 V-Sport wants to take prisoners with 550-hp 4.2L TT V8
627 pound-feet of torque likely borrowed from the mid-engine Corvette



With the refresh of the Cadillac CT6 for 2019, Cadillac welcomes the first CT6 V-Sport as well as a new trim strategy. The changes at the front for the CT6 lineup don't appear substantial viewed head-on, one needs a side view to appreciate the greater three-dimensionality. Thinner headlights and a thinner bumper above a slightly larger lower front intake emphasize the mesh grille, and the vertical LED DRLs make more dramatic statements thanks to those narrower headlights. By angling the main units back toward the rear of the sedan, the CT6 now has a certified, sculpted snout. The rework appears to add substantial overhang, but overall length only increases by a tenth of an inch, to 204.1 inches.



What's under the V-Sport's probing hood is just as interesting as the redesign and the sporting thrust: A clean-sheet design of a 4.2-liter DOHC twin-turbo V8. In the V-Sport, the engine produces 550 horsepower and a Bentley-esque 627 pound-feet of torque. As an optional engine elsewhere in the CT6 range, the same engine produces 500 hp and 553 lb-ft. The displacement, specs, plus the fact that "each engine will be hand-built at the Performance Build Center in Bowling Green, Kentucky" indicate this was one of the rumored powerplants for the mid-engine Corvette. The coming sports car was tipped to get a 4.2-liter and 5.5-liter DOHC twin-turbo V8. Based on the position of the turbos in this engine vs. their positions in the previous CAD drawings, we assume the drawings represented the 5.5-liter.



The 4.2-liter item features an aluminum block, heads, and pistons, direct injection with a 9.8:1 compression ratio, cylinder deactivation, cylinder oil jets, and a variable-pressure oil system. The twin-scroll turbochargers capable of 20 pounds of boost sit in the 90-degree vee, working alongside twin water-to-air intercoolers, twin throttle bodies, and twin electric wastegates. Cadillac says 90 percent of torque arrives at 2,000 rpm and loiters through 5,200 rpm. Power gets sent through GM's 10L90 ten-speed automatic transmission and on to the standard all-wheel-drive system.



Cadillac didn't list 0-to-60-mph times in its press release, but engineers have track-worthy alacrity in mind for the CT6 V-Sport. The white coats tweaked the steering and Magnetic Ride Control dampers, installed a limited slip differential, and a new 19-inch Brembo Monoblock brake system with four pistons in front and performance pads. The V-Sport rides on Goodyear summer-only performance tires. To make sure the engine sounds the part, an active exhaust pumps up the volume through four quad pipes. And the sedan has a Track Mode that activates a more serious calibration throughout, changing the dynamic torque split, and modifying the details on the "Track-tuned Active Rear Steer."



Standard LED headlights, Gloss Black side window trim, and exclusive 20-inch wheels begin to differentiate the V-Sport model; non-V-Sport models get "high-lumen" headlights. In back, redesigned taillights across the range get horizontal sections in the decklid that cross the shutline, in a mirrored "7" motif. The decklid features an integrated spoiler, and a new chrome trim element runs between the taillights.



Inside, the Cadillac User Experience (CUE) moves to the generation already rolled out in the smaller sedans. Benefits include a new rotary controller and buttons. The controller handles scrolling, and oversees commands like volume and audio track selection, the buttons take one directly to menu pages like Home, Phone, and Navigation. There are upgraded response times and voice recognition, and OTA updates. The five-watt wireless charging mat grows to accept larger phones, and the rearview mirror that contains the rearview camera image goes frameless and adds zoom and tilt.

The refreshed CT6 ushers in a new forked lineup strategy for the brand's entire range, putting a Luxury trim on one side and a Sport trim on the other, our guess being a base trim will support the enterprise. This will mean a reorganization of the current choices; the 2018 CT6 comes in four flavors, Standard, Luxury, Premium Luxury, and Platinum.

Source: https://www.autoblog.com/2018/03/21/cadillac-ct6-v-sport/#slide-7280030

There were no interior images released, but overall, what an impressive car, IMO. CT6 had a great chassis that was also very light, but was lacking the exterior design and powertrain options to be considered a real flagship. If Cadillac has updated the interior in a manner that's consistent with what we see above, I think they have birthed their first real S Class, 7er and LS competitor in many years.

I've never been a big fan of Art and Science, but this new Escala-inspired design is really beautiful. The proportions are right, the detailing is beautiful, it's unique and it definitely has presence. It's clean but aggressive.

550hp TT V8 with 637lb-ft of torque in a car that probably weighs less than 4,000lbs is going to be incredibly impressive. Again, if you followed the CT6's debut, you will know how universally praised the chassis was - this is only going to make it better.

Also, this car has a brand new V8 option outside of the V Sport:

V Sport: 550hp, 637 lb-ft of torque
Optional 4.2L TT V8: 500hp, 553 lb-ft of torque
I assume the V6, if not the TT V6, will still be an option.

This CT6 just became a very legitimate flagship sedan.


 

F1 Silver Arrows

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550hp TT V8 with 637lb-ft of torque in a car that probably weighs less than 4,000lbs is going to be incredibly impressive. Again, if you followed the CT6's debut, you will know how universally praised the chassis was - this is only going to make it better.
As much as I really want that to happen, the hybrid 4-cylinder CT6 weighs 4500 pounds and the 3.0TT weighs around 4400 pounds. Once they slap in this heavier V8 I believe it would be a few hundred pounds heavier, including luxury packages. Since if one were to do a head to head of the CT6 with the LS, the LS would get beaten due to it being much heavier. Under 4000 pounds would make this thing a monster.
 

Gecko

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As much as I really want that to happen, the hybrid 4-cylinder CT6 weighs 4500 pounds and the 3.0TT weighs around 4400 pounds. Once they slap in this heavier V8 I believe it would be a few hundred pounds heavier, including luxury packages. Since if one were to do a head to head of the CT6 with the LS, the LS would get beaten due to it being much heavier. Under 4000 pounds would make this thing a monster.
CT6 weights:
2.0T weighs 3,666 lbs
3.6 AWD weighs 3,950 lbs
3.0TT AWD weighs 4,176 lbs
3.6 Platinum AWD weighs 4,250 lbs

My assumption of ~4klbs was probably not likely, but CT6 is already stupid light for it's class, due to diligent engineering by GM. V8 models could realistically be 4,200-4,300 lbs which gives them a class leading (BY FAR) power to weight ratio. That is roughly 1k lbs less than LS 500 AWD with comparable packaging, and about 600-700lbs less than S Class and 7er.

Biggest thing for the refreshed CT6 is going to be the interior, because the current car doesn't hold a candle to the S or LS. However, if GM made considerable improvements there... we could be telling a different tale.
 

Joaquin Ruhi

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If the CT6 V-Sport uses a 4.2-liter, 550 hp V8, might an upcoming full-fledged CT6-V use the rumored larger 5.5-liter V8 with somewhere north of 600 hp?
 
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Gecko

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If the CT6 V-Sport uses a 4.2-liter, 550 hp V8, might an upcoming full-fledged CT6 V use the rumored larger 5.5-liter V8 with somewhere north of 600 hp?
That seems to be the expectation - engines shared with the new mid engined Corvette "Zora."
 

Gecko

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I was talking to Krew about this before but it's a little defeating to be a Lexus fan and see Cadillac release two brand new V8 options for this car when Lexus doesn't have one at all. The LS 500 seems like a wholly better product but is now the lone flagship sedan that doesn't offer a V8 option at all. Even if we get LS F, which is widely expected, I think there's proof that a space exists in the market for a sub-performance flagship, V8 model with 460-500hp.

My hunch is that with 5LS development taking so long and TNGA delaying and shuffling some priorities, when Lexus started the process, a 3.5L TT V6 with 416hp and 442lb-ft of torque probably WAS competitive. And I wonder if Lexus underestimated the competitors investing in blown 6 cylinder engines, while continually pushing their V8s upmarket as well. I have no idea how long it took to develop this engine, but ~6 years ago, competitors were pumping out around 420-430hp from their V8s, so a 415hp engine would have been competitive.

Flash forward and Mercedes has a new 385hp V6, BMW has been updating their already underrated blown I6 to now 355hp and Cadillac has their 420hp TT V6. I say this lovingly, but I have yet to see a test where the LS 500 came in at Lexus' claimed 4.6 seconds 0-60. In terms of real world power and performance, LS 500 competes better with 740i, A8 3.0T and S450 than the 750i, S560 and A8 4.0T. Now Cadillac has thrown the gauntlet down with a 500hp V8 option and a 550hp sporty V8 option, S560 has 463hp, 750i is due for an updated V8 and Audi hasn't released the final specs on the new A8's 4.0L turbo V8 but it's expected to be around 460-475hp.

Put simply, Lexus has been hit from all sides and I assume it's probably because they underestimated the competition, took too long to launch the car and didn't think a V8 mainstream option would be necessary. If LS F does come in around 600-625hp, there is very much a place in the market for a ~475-500hp "LS 550" but I doubt they'll "pull a Cadillac" and actually do it... unless there is buyer push back on the TT V6 and they stand to lose sales.

Time will tell, but for now, I am very impressed with Cadillac's strategy for the new CT6. I can only hope Lexus does something similar.
 

mikeavelli

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Holy crap I didn't see this coming. This is FANTASTIC. Stands up and applauds!!! The LS F can't come fast enough...
 

Gecko

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Holy crap I didn't see this coming. This is FANTASTIC. Stands up and applauds!!! The LS F can't come fast enough...
The formula for the LC F should be simple enough, but I'd almost like to see Lexus take a "super luxury sedan" approach with the LS F instead of going for all-out sport. Increased leather, wood and trim options, more wheel options, of course unique bumpers and side skirts, and then a powerful V8 to match. They might be able to cover S560/750i/A8 4.0T/CT6 V8 territory if they package the car right and offer enough luxury features, while also offering engine and handling upgrades that would be fitting of an F model (and hitting CT6 V Sport, S63, Alpina B7 and S8 at the top end).

I just don't think Naguri aluminum trim or carbon fiber are going to be fitting in a $125k flagship sedan. I'm thinking more like open pore black walnut wood with aluminum accents combined with red or black quilted leather doors and seats. That says "LS," "luxury," and "sport" all at the same time.
 

mikeavelli

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The formula for the LC F should be simple enough, but I'd almost like to see Lexus take a "super luxury sedan" approach with the LS F instead of going for all-out sport. Increased leather, wood and trim options, more wheel options, of course unique bumpers and side skirts, and then a powerful V8 to match. They might be able to cover S560/750i/A8 4.0T/CT6 V8 territory if they package the car right and offer enough luxury features, while also offering engine and handling upgrades that would be fitting of an F model (and hitting CT6 V Sport, S63, Alpina B7 and S8 at the top end).

I just don't think Naguri aluminum trim or carbon fiber are going to be fitting in a $125k flagship sedan. I'm thinking more like open pore black walnut wood with aluminum accents combined with red or black quilted leather doors and seats. That says "LS," "luxury," and "sport" all at the same time.
I wonder internally if Lexus is seeing this and re-thinking their V-8 plans. Because I didn't consider the CT-6 competition to be honest and that has suddenly all changed.
 

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I have no words right now (regarding this vs Lexus), as I am just baffled at this bold move by Cadillac. This is all Johan de Nysschen. The biggest problem this man has ever had, is making a viable short-term business case for high-achieving products to his superiors focused on short-term profits. Clearly Mary Barra and a good amount of the GM board, are showing to be more receptive to his ideas, than Renault-Nissan were. So many lost opportunities with Infiniti, that all their designers want to do is work on advanced design department projects (aka concepts), since their production work never sees the light of day.

The CT6 final design was approved in 2012, being fully locked-in circa early 2013. Partly why Elmiraj Concept styling couldn't work. Because of that, JdN had not much say in this car after he left Infiniti to take over Cadillac in July 2014, despite delaying the CT6 a few months from late 2015 launch to early 2016. This facelift is the result of his direction for once. The REAL Infiniti Q60 (as in CV37, not CV36 G37 rebadge) is what he can do, as the original Q60 coupe redesign for MY 2015, was a 2-door Q50 and hardly different.

He made them fix it by delaying the car, planned out an Infiniti renaissance. After he left in 2014, so many things just died slowly over time, as Andy Palmer and Krueger didn't put up much of a fight. I give GM thumbs up for entrusting him with what to do for Cadillac.
 

mikeavelli

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I can't stop thinking "what if" in regards to a V-8 LS with 500 or 550hp......

I also am having a hard time with a 416hp F-Sport with no power bump when their V-Sport makes 550hp... so a full V would be 650 ala CTS-V?

Wow
 

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Lexus needs something more than the LS500 to keep it fresh. When the initial wave of LS loyalists get their orders delivered, sales will probably lose steam since the LS500/500h are NOT proper flagships. Having to resort to incentives to sell a luxury car (in a major market) three months after it launched is very wrong. The V8 and LWB have to happen, fast, preferrably a combination of the two.

Claiming a V6TT is enough of a V8 replacement is fine, but not having a complete lineup is bad. The CT6 V-sport gives them no excuse.
 
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wow bravo Cadillac! i was kinda exited to see the CT-6 when it came out, as i dont think cadillac has made a "real" cadillac since the 90s. -i know. brutal. when i found out the CT-6 had a 4 banger, i about fell out of my chair laughing. then again, still not as bad as a northstar, which is a whole other topic. sad thing about the northstar v8, is that it was a pretty sweet motor but blew up due to crummy engineering
 

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Having to resort to incentives to sell a luxury car (in a major market) three months after it launched is very wrong.
Is this happening? In what markets?
 

Ian Schmidt

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The question here then becomes: if Caddy makes both this new CT-6 and a production Escala, don't they have a WTF sedan lineup again?

sad thing about the northstar v8, is that it was a pretty sweet motor but blew up due to crummy engineering
Wasn't there a version where the problems were eventually fixed? I recall Northstar swaps into other GM products (especially the Fiero, of all things) were quite common for a time.
 

ssun30

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Is this happening? In what markets?
China. They do have a healthy backorder worth about six months thanks to all the pre-orders. The incentive is very small, but these cars are supposed to be sold with a mark-up in the first place.
 

Airplane

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I was talking to Krew about this before but it's a little defeating to be a Lexus fan and see Cadillac release two brand new V8 options for this car when Lexus doesn't have one at all. The LS 500 seems like a wholly better product but is now the lone flagship sedan that doesn't offer a V8 option at all. Even if we get LS F, which is widely expected, I think there's proof that a space exists in the market for a sub-performance flagship, V8 model with 460-500hp.

My hunch is that with 5LS development taking so long and TNGA delaying and shuffling some priorities, when Lexus started the process, a 3.5L TT V6 with 416hp and 442lb-ft of torque probably WAS competitive. And I wonder if Lexus underestimated the competitors investing in blown 6 cylinder engines, while continually pushing their V8s upmarket as well. I have no idea how long it took to develop this engine, but ~6 years ago, competitors were pumping out around 420-430hp from their V8s, so a 415hp engine would have been competitive.

Flash forward and Mercedes has a new 385hp V6, BMW has been updating their already underrated blown I6 to now 355hp and Cadillac has their 420hp TT V6. I say this lovingly, but I have yet to see a test where the LS 500 came in at Lexus' claimed 4.6 seconds 0-60. In terms of real world power and performance, LS 500 competes better with 740i, A8 3.0T and S450 than the 750i, S560 and A8 4.0T. Now Cadillac has thrown the gauntlet down with a 500hp V8 option and a 550hp sporty V8 option, S560 has 463hp, 750i is due for an updated V8 and Audi hasn't released the final specs on the new A8's 4.0L turbo V8 but it's expected to be around 460-475hp.

Put simply, Lexus has been hit from all sides and I assume it's probably because they underestimated the competition, took too long to launch the car and didn't think a V8 mainstream option would be necessary. If LS F does come in around 600-625hp, there is very much a place in the market for a ~475-500hp "LS 550" but I doubt they'll "pull a Cadillac" and actually do it... unless there is buyer push back on the TT V6 and they stand to lose sales.

Time will tell, but for now, I am very impressed with Cadillac's strategy for the new CT6. I can only hope Lexus does something similar.
The biggest problem lays in the cooperation. TMC have the same problem as SONY, they are too big and have too many executives in every department. Decisions take too long to finalize in the hiearchy, and mixed with the arogance (underestimate the competition) products is guranteed to get delayed.

I feel like the LS will do very well this year, then sale will plumet a year later when competitions come out with more options and new engines.
 

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What's wrong with Sony? They beat Microsoft by over 2:1 on this console generation, their micro 4/3rds cameras rule the world, and their new OLED TVs are well reviewed.
 
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