A V8 Lexus LFR May Have Been a Pipedream After All

[Gor134]

The fact that they renamed the sport battery concept to sport concept for the updated version is saying something.

They didn't rename anything.

The Sport Electrified Concept is very clearly a more exotic and longer supercar, while the Sport Concept is just a sports car.

 

[CRSKTN]

IMO, the GR Motorsports tie-in is far more representative of the car than LFA as it's heritage.

Yeah it's so much more representative Toyota plastered the marketing in LFA imagery.

People barely know what BMW M is. Anyone here who thinks more than 1% of car buyers has any idea what "GR" is let alone some supercar one off from a brand nobody has heard of, isn't being realistic. "It's a GR. It's a racing division of Toyota. But it's like a successor to the LFA. That was a supercar from Lexus. You know, Lexus. No, it's not Spanish, it was Toyota's luxury car division." is 1,000% more indicative of the average conversation you'd have with someone about this thing.

 

[Gor134]

"its a GR" "oh like the GR Corolla/Supra/Yaris"

The car enthusiasts will all know GR lol.

 

[CRSKTN]

Surveys have shown only 1 to 3 out of 10 car buyers can even approximately explain what AMG or M is, in broad terms. For luxury buyers who know the brands its still barely 1 in 4.

GR models are less than 1% of sales in NA. All GR cars combined is 20 to 30k a year, vs millions sold.

Nobody knows what these brands are.
People only knew the LFA from Top Gear, etc.

 

[bogglo]

At this point WGAF. Real question is what is the plan for the GS, IS , RC, LC and LS owners. Because right now anything offered by Lexus don't cover those people. if they are willing and if done right those 5 vehicles can become 2 or 3 vehicles.

RC and LC can be covered by the recently revealed concept and they can literally take the Porsche approach with it. different 911 grades. The LC and RC are already on par when it comes to performance anyway.

The IS can be redesigned just like the ES got bigger and it can cover both GS and IS market. keep it all awd like the GR cars retune the LS engine for it with the new GR transmission.

If the century can be a Sedan/SUV/CUV pick one and let it be shared with LS. Century/Maybach and LS/S-Class. The car universe is restored and the rivalry can continue.

With all the performance stuff they have going on it will be disappointing the teased century is not at least a proper AWD vehicle that don't share anything with RAV 4

 

[LCLFV]

GR isn't associated with being expensive. F/M/AMG/RS are all indicative of a "higher level" pricetag - people aren't really paying for the performance so much as the (perceived) exclusivity of the badge. Even Honda knew they had to sell the NSX as an Acura even though the NSX name itself rivals the Supra to enthusiasts.

Yes I'm sure you could make some argument about dealer markups on GR Corollas and whatnot but that's not by design, and I can guarantee you those lining up for a GR Corolla are not the same people lining up for an M3.

 

[DarkSpace6383]

They didn't rename anything.

The Sport Electrified Concept is very clearly a more exotic and longer supercar, while the Sport Concept is just a sports car.

It is an evolution of the exact same design. It is pretty obvious

 

[DarkSpace6383]

Surveys have shown only 1 to 3 out of 10 car buyers can even approximately explain what AMG or M is, in broad terms. For luxury buyers who know the brands its still barely 1 in 4.

GR models are less than 1% of sales in NA. All GR cars combined is 20 to 30k a year, vs millions sold.

Nobody knows what these brands are.
People only knew the LFA from Top Gear, etc.

Your analysis is fundementally flawed as a supercar isnt meant to be attainable or sell in bulk. It is meant to serve as a halo car for the brand. Furthermore, the people who dont know what bmw m is would not consider buying a sportscar anyway. You need to use the enthusiast community as your sample base, not the buyer base at large.

 

[DarkSpace6383]

At this point WGAF. Real question is what is the plan for the GS, IS , RC, LC and LS owners. Because right now anything offered by Lexus don't cover those people. if they are willing and if done right those 5 vehicles can become 2 or 3 vehicles.

RC and LC can be covered by the recently revealed concept and they can literally take the Porsche approach with it. different 911 grades. The LC and RC are already on par when it comes to performance anyway.

The IS can be redesigned just like the ES got bigger and it can cover both GS and IS market. keep it all awd like the GR cars retune the LS engine for it with the new GR transmission.

If the century can be a Sedan/SUV/CUV pick one and let it be shared with LS. Century/Maybach and LS/S-Class. The car universe is restored and the rivalry can continue.

With all the performance stuff they have going on it will be disappointing the teased century is not at least a proper AWD vehicle that don't share anything with RAV 4

I 100 percent agree with this. I think the LC and the RC should combine into 1 vehicle, maybe with 6 cylinder power, and based on the next gen supra platform. Give it the appointments of the LC since if I were to guess it will probably be starting around 70k, and then it should be focused on performance with around 600hp, but not encroach on the monstrous car I have proposed next. That car is a a Lexus version of the GR GT (that could maybe slot above the GR GT or equivalent to the GR GT). Such a concept has worked with the Lamborghini Huracan and Audi R8 (both of which have proved to be highly successful). I also agree with your assessment on the IS (though ideally that is what the ES should have been). The IS needs to compete against the m3s/m4s, in order for Lexus to shed it's Toyota+ image. I don't think it will ever come close to succeeding the GS, but optional 6 cylinder power needs to happen. I have a full concept for the lexus flagship models that ive sent in the server before, but ill insert it here as well:

I think Lexus L Flagship line should have several vehicles:

1. LFR: Based on the sport concept unveiled at the Quail which WILL BE COMING. I think it should also come with a hybrid 8 cylinder engine in addition to the EV powertrain, and ideally around 1000 horsepower. I would also like it to race in GT3, maybe alongside the GR GT in something similar to the Lamborghini-Audi R8-Huracan situation that has been happening of the last 10 years.
2. LX/LXL: Make it a proper Range Rover, GLS, and Escalade Rival, rather than a defender rival. It should be gunning towards luxury. V6, possibly EV in the future aswell. This doesnt mean it has to lose that much offroad prowess, but it shouldnt be the main priority. The GX has gotten big enough to handle that domain.
3. LFX: Basically the LF1-Limitless concept that shares some tech with the LFR, designed to compete against the Audi Q8, Porsche Cayenne, Range Rover Sport etc. V6, possibly EV in the future aswell.
4. LM/LMV: The upcoming van/minivan concept (though ideally with a better looking design). EV, maybe Hybrid?
5. LS: Not a traditional sedan, but something similar, kind of like the Audi Grand sphere concept. It could serve as something more executive idk. V6 Hybrid maybe?

What are your thoughts?

 

[Gor134]

It is an evolution of the exact same design. It is pretty obvious

Nope. I don't see it as an evolution of the same design. I see it as a sub-LC, more sporting focused model.

 

[Gor134]

I 100 percent agree with this. I think the LC and the RC should combine into 1 vehicle, maybe with 6 cylinder power, and based on the next gen supra platform.

You agree with this yet disagree that's what the Sport Concept is previewing

 

[CRSKTN]

They reused design elements from the LF-LC in Toyota products like the Camry and Sienna. Design elements, lines, etc, are not sacred to them beyond representing the dimensions / wheelbase / track width of the vehicle and what can be done realistically packaging wise.

Also they probably have a million different designs all coming from similar vague silhouette drawings they've landed on as being "Lexus".

Taking the 2030 Lexus supercar proportions and reusing it as some Lexus-centric LC/RC (SC/ZC?) coupe is totally believable. Either on some battery sled or maybe one of those new turbo engines they're raving about.

 

[DarkSpace6383]

You agree with this yet disagree that's what the Sport Concept is previewing

They reused design elements from the LF-LC in Toyota products like the Camry and Sienna. Design elements, lines, etc, are not sacred to them beyond representing the dimensions / wheelbase / track width of the vehicle and what can be done realistically packaging wise.

Also they probably have a million different designs all coming from similar vague silhouette drawings they've landed on as being "Lexus".

Taking the 2030 Lexus supercar proportions and reusing it as some Lexus-centric LC/RC (SC/ZC?) coupe is totally believable. Either on some battery sled or maybe one of those new turbo engines they're raving about.

Nope. I don't see it as an evolution of the same design. I see it as a sub-LC, more sporting focused model.

Sport concept is not previewing that. They literally made it as a homage to the LFA, as shown by the similar body lines (unlike more of the coupified sedan shape of the RC), and also their tribute to the LC wiht the triple-shape in the year akin to the triple exhaust found on that model Also there are very similar side intake features to that found on the LFA. If this isnt clearly an LFA homage then I dont know what is. It is also more performance-oriented than the LC. I suggest you look at what BestCar Magazine says. They are the number one source for toyota group info.

https://www.hagerty.com/media/news/does-this-lexus-sport-concept-foreshadow-the-next-lfa/

 

[Gor134]

It is also more performance-oriented than the LC. I suggest you look at what BestCar Magazine says.

Again, you're saying the same thing I'm saying. It is more sporting focused than the LC.

AND I am going based off of BestCar's rumour of the RC/LC being one model, that this is what that will be.

Also the DOA LC-F was going to adopt an LFA-style exhaust system so that visual callback doesn't mean much to me.

 

[DarkSpace6383]

Again, you're saying the same thing I'm saying. It is more sporting focused than the LC.

AND I am going based off of BestCar's rumour of the RC/LC being one model, that this is what that will be.

Also the DOA LC-F was going to adopt an LFA-style exhaust system so that visual callback doesn't mean much to me.

It will be more sporting-focused than the LC you are right. Best car said LC and RC will be one model, but I don't think this will be it. Its not just the triple exhaust but also the general shape and dimensions of the car that looks very reminiscent of the Lexus LFA. Time will tell theres no point debating on this right now.

 

[ssun30]

Seeing how good of a job they did on the AE86 BEV, I'm now convinced they are the only company that could deliver a close-to-ICE experience in a BEV supercar. That synthetic sound and mechanical feedback are so close to the real car.

 

[Levi]

Close to ICE experience for me also means weight/range ratio.

 

[DarkSpace6383]

Seeing how good of a job they did on the AE86 BEV, I'm now convinced they are the only company that could deliver a close-to-ICE experience in a BEV supercar. That synthetic sound and mechanical feedback are so close to the real car.

Its about audience. The business case for a hybrid supercar is significantly better, and also "close to ICE" still isnt as involved as ICE at the end of the day.

 

[Faisal Sheikh]

Kirk is saying, LFR with V8 twin turbo is still alive