5th Generation RX Discussion: Official Thread (RX 500h, 450h+, 350h and More)

ssun30

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Like what's wrong with people? Don't they have freedom of choice? If product A doesn't fit your need or nation specific policies buy another product. I switched from Lexus to BMW and don't feel guilty about it because BMW happened to have the right product at the right time for me. The only company that can produce a product for every person on the planet is Coca Cola.
 

NXracer

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Like what's wrong with people? Don't they have freedom of choice? If product A doesn't fit your need or nation specific policies buy another product. I switched from Lexus to BMW and don't feel guilty about it because BMW happened to have the right product at the right time for me. The only company that can produce a product for every person on the planet is Coca Cola.
Pepsi, Shastha, and everything other Cola mfg would like a word with you.
 

Motor

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TOKYO — No more controversial mugs for Lexus.

The premium brand's polarizing spindle grille — derided as the Darth Vader death mask by some critics — is getting a face-lift for a kinder, gentler look thanks to the brand's shift to electrification.

With no engine to cool in Lexus' upcoming line of electric vehicles, there is no need for a gaping front air intake — or the brand's trademark gaping grille to shield it.

Lexus global design chief Koichi Suga told Automotive News that the makeover is already underway, with the new RZ full-electric crossover unveiled in April and the soon- to-arrive redesigned 2023 RX crossover revealed last week in Japan and at a media event at Toyota Motor North America's headquarters in Plano, Texas.

Lexus is sticking with the spindle motif. But going forward, it will be structurally incorporated into the solid body paneling. Say so long to the spindle grille; say hello to the "spindle body."

In the RZ, the grille is completely gone. In the RX, partially so, melded into the sheet metal.

Suga said the approach channels customer feedback, noting the mixed reviews given to previous iterations of the Lexus grille that compared it to everything from a Braun electric shaver to the tenacious teeth of the Predator from the science fiction film series.

“Many people mention it looks like Darth Vader," Suga said here on the sidelines of the unveiling of the overhauled RX midsize crossover.

U.S. market research, he said, showed that when the spindle grille is too big, it's a turnoff.

"The new spindle execution is based on this learning," he said. "We need the right balance."

Nose job
The redesigned RX also gets a nose job.
The front ditches the mammoth hourglass-shaped cow catcher for a toned-down grille that is filled in at the top and gradually blends into traditional mesh below. The RX also loses the sloped front hood for a more angular and robust front lip presenting a squared-off look.

The all-electric RZ, meanwhile, has a completely filled-in front, reminiscent of Tesla. Yet still clearly evident is the hourglass shape molded into the fascia, with a thin air intake at the bottom.

"We want to maintain the spindle shape itself. But the spindle has always been based on functionality of what's happening under the hood," Suga said.

Like the RX, the RZ gets a prominent nib at the leading edge of the hood, creating a more vertical front profile and more planted posture.

And on both vehicles, to help blend the new spindle shape into the body, the swoosh-mark daytime running lights pinch in from both sides, accentuating the cinched middle.

"This sleek, dynamic design is symbolized by a sense of solid mass," Lexus says of the new look. "Central to the new spindle body design are the carefully sculpted seamless grille and integrated headlamps that strengthen and evolve the signature design."

Toyota Motor Corp.'s premium marque is banking on the redesign of the venerable RX to help rekindle the brand's sales momentum amid tight inventories and supply chain turmoil.

Lexus sales in the U.S. declined 13 percent to 64,365 vehicles in first quarter, placing the brand No. 3 in the luxury sales race behind estimated top-seller Tesla and runner-up BMW. But RX sales, accounting for 41.6 percent of the Lexus total, dipped just 4.1 percent to 26,795.

The RX dominated the premium midsize crossover market with nearly 22.2 percent of the segment, outpacing the BMW X5 and rival Mercedes-Benz GLE/M-Class by more than 10,000 vehicles each. In fact, Toyota has sold 3.5 million RX crossovers globally since its 1998 debut.

No ‘fake' grilles
The redesign also plays a critical role in Lexus' electrification goals. Lexus wants to transform itself into an electric-only brand in Europe, the U.S. and China by 2030, when it expects to sell 1 million EVs a year. And by 2035, Lexus aims to be ready to sell only full-electric vehicles worldwide.

That march to full-electrics has only just begun with the RZ, the brand's first dedicated EV.

The spindle grille first appeared in the Lexus CT hybrid hatchback, which reached U.S. showrooms in 2011. The name, coined by Toyota global design boss Simon Humphries, comes from its shape, like a spindle of thread, and is a subtle reminder of Toyota's corporate origins as a loom maker.

It has become almost as emblematic of Lexus as BMW's kidney grille is of the German luxury rival. For its part, BMW is keeping its distinctive double-nostril grille pattern, replete with a meshlike texture, in its line of upcoming EVs, such as the iX crossover and i4 sedan.

Humphries, speaking this year about the evolution of Toyota design, said today's radiator grilles will eventually transform into housings for the sensors needed for autonomous cars.

“It's a paradigm shift from the ICE engine radiator grille, all the way through to sensors, which will form the identity in the future," Humphries said.

"For us, what this does is give the car a very strong center portion without having to put a fake grille on there or something."
 

Alshamsi

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Lexus keeps on downgrading their F-Sport products in terms of interiors, the new RX Fsport has no ambient lighting like the normal version, it has a lot less colors and looks dull and dead with almost all black interior... who told them that looking sporty means stripping the car from luxurious interiors ?
 

internalaudit

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The scam in Europe again, and why Toyota's honesty is so respectable as opposed to liars, is that most do not know the difference between MHEV, HEV and PHEV. Someone that thinks about hybrid will get sold a PHEV, whitout knowing anything about the tech, other that it can drive a certain distance on electric. European car makers can't make good hybrids, that is why their PHEVs are crap. They tried and failed, but thanks to BEV transition, they can scam some buyers in the meantime due to deceptive marketing.
Which manufacturer do you think will have the most reliable software for BEVs? I am guessing Toyota will have a walk in the park as HEV and PHEV programming probably much more complicated than BEV programming with battery maintenance the biggest constraint.

Etron and taycanforum are full of disappointed members.

My criteria choosing a BEV (if brand new). Added point two. No way can I afford to pay for dealership visits to remediate software issues after the bumper to bumper warranty is gone.

-Still want rear axle torque vectoring ( more for safety during inclement weather but happy with cornering performance gains)
-Software reliability
-Battery reliability and longevity. May not wait for solid state or lithium metal if warranty is extended to 15 years, 50% capacity.
 

internalaudit

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No they don't have the same advantage. In the industry, it is claimed BMW and Porsche make the best automatic gearboxes. The hardware is not that different from other carmakers, the difference is in the programing, and that is something no one can do or catch up to. The same goes for TMC hybrids, no one can do the programing as them, and the same probably applies to Tesla BEVs.
I doubt Toyota can't come close to Tesla BEVs in terms of software refinement. I was being ridiculed in 2018 for saying Toyota can easily build BEVs and in 2020, it came out with UX300e just like that.

So many issues with the cars even if programming was done from the ground up. I have never seen so many threads about car issues or finicky things except on Tesla Motor Club. It is almost like no two owners have had the same experience haha. Sure some don't experience issues but with OTA updates, could actually make a great car bad.

Major constraint with BEVs is battery and with good incremental improvements every few years, automakers will eventually be free to make more performance oriented BEVs (lower weight, more power) that are nothing short of Tesla BEV performance.

With Tesla, it advertises the best charging times and driving ranges, only to take these back with some OTA updates to protect the battery while it's under warranty.
 
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mediumhot

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Are you in France, taking about malus taxes? That is one huge scam. No way around that. Get a BEV or register the car in a foreign country on another name (until same law as Italian comes here).
That's weight tax in France right? Some other countries have it for emissions but France have decided to go with weight. I would argue that makes sense cause heavy vehicles make greater tarmac tear and wear but then I read it applies to all cars above 1.8 tones and immediately I knew they found a way to tax BEVs and PHEVs. Even IS300h would get taxed under that condition.
 

Jonas

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That's weight tax in France right? Some other countries have it for emissions but France have decided to go with weight. I would argue that makes sense cause heavy vehicles make greater tarmac tear and wear but then I read it applies to all cars above 1.8 tones and immediately I knew they found a way to tax BEVs and PHEVs. Even IS300h would get taxed under that condition.
This is the question, regardless of taxes and without the price of the car - if you want to pay for it:

Cayenne e-hybrid
  • Engine: 3.0-liter turbo V-6 plug-in hybrid
  • Horsepower/Torque: 455 hp/516 lb-ft
  • Efficiency (combined): 46 mpg-e (elec); 21 mpg (gas)
  • Acceleration (0-60 mph): 4.2 seconds
Left Volvo plug-ins and others out…

Up to now RX 450h (myself have an f-sport)
  • Engine: 3.5-liter V-6 and electric motor
  • Horsepower/Torque: 308 hp/274 lb-ft
  • Efficiency (city/highway): 31/28 mpg
  • Acceleration (0-60 mph): 7.0 seconds.
New 2023 RX 500h f-sport performance
  • Engine: Combines turbo four-cylinder with an electric motor and a rear electric motor.
  • Horsepower/torque: 367 hp/406 lb-ft.
  • Efficiency: 26 mpg.
  • Acceleration (0-60 mph): 5.9 seconds.
Ok, it´ is better, but the 450h+ sure will be like the NX…

The Lexus LF-1 Limitless concept, would have been something, both the design and performance, a. benchmark, like Lexus used to be…

And the taxes, malus goes for the whole EU, worse in France and for example Sweden…
 
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Levi

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That's weight tax in France right? Some other countries have it for emissions but France have decided to go with weight. I would argue that makes sense cause heavy vehicles make greater tarmac tear and wear but then I read it applies to all cars above 1.8 tones and immediately I knew they found a way to tax BEVs and PHEVs. Even IS300h would get taxed under that condition.
No, CO2 emissions tax. But weight tax is new since this year. It also makes no sense. Every luxury sedan is "heavy" by that standard.
 

mediumhot

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This is the question, regardless of taxes and without the price of the car - if you want to pay for it:

Cayenne e-hybrid
  • Engine: 3.0-liter turbo V-6 plug-in hybrid
  • Horsepower/Torque: 455 hp/516 lb-ft
  • Efficiency (combined): 46 mpg-e (elec); 21 mpg (gas)
  • Acceleration (0-60 mph): 4.2 seconds
Left Volvo plug-ins and others out…

Up to now RX 450h (myself have an f-sport)
  • Engine: 3.5-liter V-6 and electric motor
  • Horsepower/Torque: 308 hp/274 lb-ft
  • Efficiency (city/highway): 31/28 mpg
  • Acceleration (0-60 mph): 7.0 seconds.
New 2023 RX 500h f-sport performance
  • Engine: Combines turbo four-cylinder with an electric motor and a rear electric motor.
  • Horsepower/torque: 367 hp/406 lb-ft.
  • Efficiency: 26 mpg.
  • Acceleration (0-60 mph): 5.9 seconds.
Ok, it´ is better, but the 450h+ sure will be like the NX…

The Lexus LF-1 Limitless concept, would have been something, both the design and performance, a. benchmark, like Lexus used to be…

And the taxes, malus goes for the whole EU, worse in France and for example Sweden…

CUVs and performance is something that is not my cup of tea, I would always get the vanilla engine option. I get it that X5M and Cayenne Turbo S are monsters but they are also stupidly expensive to maintain and reliability nightmare. My friends Cayenne went back to the shop two weeks after it was picked up from the floor. Then it went back again. And again. Dash keeps flashing them failure lights like it's early Christmas. Screw that. And Porsche + PHEV is something I wouldn't rely on to get efficiency benefits. In Panamera Turbo S E-hybrid you can't get past 12km in EV mode.
 

Nights

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This is the question, regardless of taxes and without the price of the car - if you want to pay for it:

Cayenne e-hybrid
  • Engine: 3.0-liter turbo V-6 plug-in hybrid
  • Horsepower/Torque: 455 hp/516 lb-ft
  • Efficiency (combined): 46 mpg-e (elec); 21 mpg (gas)
  • Acceleration (0-60 mph): 4.2 seconds
Left Volvo plug-ins and others out…

Up to now RX 450h (myself have an f-sport)
  • Engine: 3.5-liter V-6 and electric motor
  • Horsepower/Torque: 308 hp/274 lb-ft
  • Efficiency (city/highway): 31/28 mpg
  • Acceleration (0-60 mph): 7.0 seconds.
New 2023 RX 500h f-sport performance
  • Engine: Combines turbo four-cylinder with an electric motor and a rear electric motor.
  • Horsepower/torque: 367 hp/406 lb-ft.
  • Efficiency: 26 mpg.
  • Acceleration (0-60 mph): 5.9 seconds.
Ok, it´ is better, but the 450h+ sure will be like the NX…

The Lexus LF-1 Limitless concept, would have been something, both the design and performance, a. benchmark, like Lexus used to be…

And the taxes, malus goes for the whole EU, worse in France and for example Sweden…

Sister owns a cayenne e hybrid and it definitely doesn’t do 0-60 in 4.2; even with the additional Chrono pack.
 

internalaudit

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Seems Toyota, Ford and BMW understand the value of HEVs and BEVs. They're probably the ones with the most positive EV experience and know software could offer extreme competitive advantage. The article below is a good read.

As Electric Car Makers Ante Up Billions, Software Is Ace in the Hole Coders set to cash in


Similarly, Toyota has created a holding company, Woven Planet Holdings, Inc. to "focus on a more agile 'software-first' development process and Software Defined Architecture for future Toyota vehicles," which will bring more software development inside the organization. BMW and Volvo have also publicly said they plan to take over more of their own software development.

One question is whether these and other OEMs can really transform themselves into software-first companies, especially given vehicle software and electronics expertise has traditionally resided at their suppliers. The other question is how these same suppliers will respond to OEMs increasingly turning from customers to competitors? Suppliers are not sitting still in their development of advanced EV technologies, especially in software.

Another potentially disruptive wild card includes the entry of a digital dynamo like Apple into the fray, which it is always rumored to be on the verge of doing. If it does, it could make the EV poker game a lot more interesting. In the past year, Chinese internet giant Baidu and Taiwanese electronics manufacturer Foxconn have both decided to get into the EV game. Sony is sniffing around, which may spur Apple or perhaps other tech companies to finally join in as well. Even then, as Tesla found out, transforming from a tech company into an auto company can be hell.
 
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NXracer

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I wonder how pricing stacks up for all these models and the RZ?
RZ450e would indicate they price it the same as a 450h (before ADMs), but they'd could be trying to inch it upwards closer to the 500h. They could also just ADM the MSRP themselves and move it closer or above the 500h.


Sidenote:
While I have no confirmation of this, I assume select members of the media were shown the upcoming Crown?
 

mikeavelli

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I wonder how pricing stacks up for all these models and the RZ?
RZ450e would indicate they price it the same as a 450h (before ADMs), but they'd could be trying to inch it upwards closer to the 500h. They could also just ADM the MSRP themselves and move it closer or above the 500h.


Sidenote:
While I have no confirmation of this, I assume select members of the media were shown the upcoming Crown?

There was a few secret things shown that can’t be spoken about. Same last year.
 

Gecko

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TOKYO — No more controversial mugs for Lexus.

The premium brand's polarizing spindle grille — derided as the Darth Vader death mask by some critics — is getting a face-lift for a kinder, gentler look thanks to the brand's shift to electrification.

With no engine to cool in Lexus' upcoming line of electric vehicles, there is no need for a gaping front air intake — or the brand's trademark gaping grille to shield it.

Lexus global design chief Koichi Suga told Automotive News that the makeover is already underway, with the new RZ full-electric crossover unveiled in April and the soon- to-arrive redesigned 2023 RX crossover revealed last week in Japan and at a media event at Toyota Motor North America's headquarters in Plano, Texas.

Lexus is sticking with the spindle motif. But going forward, it will be structurally incorporated into the solid body paneling. Say so long to the spindle grille; say hello to the "spindle body."

In the RZ, the grille is completely gone. In the RX, partially so, melded into the sheet metal.

Suga said the approach channels customer feedback, noting the mixed reviews given to previous iterations of the Lexus grille that compared it to everything from a Braun electric shaver to the tenacious teeth of the Predator from the science fiction film series.

“Many people mention it looks like Darth Vader," Suga said here on the sidelines of the unveiling of the overhauled RX midsize crossover.

U.S. market research, he said, showed that when the spindle grille is too big, it's a turnoff.

"The new spindle execution is based on this learning," he said. "We need the right balance."

Nose job
The redesigned RX also gets a nose job.
The front ditches the mammoth hourglass-shaped cow catcher for a toned-down grille that is filled in at the top and gradually blends into traditional mesh below. The RX also loses the sloped front hood for a more angular and robust front lip presenting a squared-off look.

The all-electric RZ, meanwhile, has a completely filled-in front, reminiscent of Tesla. Yet still clearly evident is the hourglass shape molded into the fascia, with a thin air intake at the bottom.

"We want to maintain the spindle shape itself. But the spindle has always been based on functionality of what's happening under the hood," Suga said.

Like the RX, the RZ gets a prominent nib at the leading edge of the hood, creating a more vertical front profile and more planted posture.

And on both vehicles, to help blend the new spindle shape into the body, the swoosh-mark daytime running lights pinch in from both sides, accentuating the cinched middle.

"This sleek, dynamic design is symbolized by a sense of solid mass," Lexus says of the new look. "Central to the new spindle body design are the carefully sculpted seamless grille and integrated headlamps that strengthen and evolve the signature design."

Toyota Motor Corp.'s premium marque is banking on the redesign of the venerable RX to help rekindle the brand's sales momentum amid tight inventories and supply chain turmoil.

Lexus sales in the U.S. declined 13 percent to 64,365 vehicles in first quarter, placing the brand No. 3 in the luxury sales race behind estimated top-seller Tesla and runner-up BMW. But RX sales, accounting for 41.6 percent of the Lexus total, dipped just 4.1 percent to 26,795.

The RX dominated the premium midsize crossover market with nearly 22.2 percent of the segment, outpacing the BMW X5 and rival Mercedes-Benz GLE/M-Class by more than 10,000 vehicles each. In fact, Toyota has sold 3.5 million RX crossovers globally since its 1998 debut.

No ‘fake' grilles
The redesign also plays a critical role in Lexus' electrification goals. Lexus wants to transform itself into an electric-only brand in Europe, the U.S. and China by 2030, when it expects to sell 1 million EVs a year. And by 2035, Lexus aims to be ready to sell only full-electric vehicles worldwide.

That march to full-electrics has only just begun with the RZ, the brand's first dedicated EV.

The spindle grille first appeared in the Lexus CT hybrid hatchback, which reached U.S. showrooms in 2011. The name, coined by Toyota global design boss Simon Humphries, comes from its shape, like a spindle of thread, and is a subtle reminder of Toyota's corporate origins as a loom maker.

It has become almost as emblematic of Lexus as BMW's kidney grille is of the German luxury rival. For its part, BMW is keeping its distinctive double-nostril grille pattern, replete with a meshlike texture, in its line of upcoming EVs, such as the iX crossover and i4 sedan.

Humphries, speaking this year about the evolution of Toyota design, said today's radiator grilles will eventually transform into housings for the sensors needed for autonomous cars.

“It's a paradigm shift from the ICE engine radiator grille, all the way through to sensors, which will form the identity in the future," Humphries said.

"For us, what this does is give the car a very strong center portion without having to put a fake grille on there or something."

I just don't understand this type of outward/external comment, and this:

2022-Lexus-LX-600-Front.jpg


So many things about the LX keep me scratching my head. I'm sure a lot of it has to do with the development time of the Land Cruiser, but since the RX is basically their most important model, I'm sure there was some... awareness of this "spindle body" transition for RX, RZ, and everything else coming afterward.
 

mikeavelli

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If we remember when the 2013 or so RX got the first spindle the internets burned the RX with fire. When the 2016 all new model debuted with pretty out there styling for the RX, the internet’s burned it with fire.

Buyers tho made it the best selling RX.

This front for me is the most challenging but I feel in a darker color it won’t big me as much.
 

sl0519

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I wondered how they are going to price the 500h FSP against its top competitors.......
1654525972145.png
1654526037525.png
1654526110710.png

Perhaps the closest model to compete with in terms of powertrain that I can think of
1654526393232.png
Or let's put this another way......what are some of the appeal factors that would make you want to buy the RX500h FSP?
Performance? the brand? design and quality? or gas mileage?
 

NXracer

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I just don't understand this type of outward/external comment, and this:

2022-Lexus-LX-600-Front.jpg


So many things about the LX keep me scratching my head. I'm sure a lot of it has to do with the development time of the Land Cruiser, but since the RX is basically their most important model, I'm sure there was some... awareness of this "spindle body" transition for RX, RZ, and everything else coming afterward.
Power of marketing and really does the buying public really even give a damn about the externals while traversing deserts and flooded roads?