ssun30

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Also, the GX should have the LX's tune of the 3.4L TT V6 -- not a detuned version just so the LX can be "king" and rob the others of equipment and power they should have. I hate when Lexus does stuff like this.
It will be tough to accept if next Tacoma/4Runner TRD Pro get the full 389/409hp tune while GX gets the 348/365hp tune... especially since the detuned version doesn't improve fuel economy.
 

ssun30

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Here's my thoughts on the missing LX/Land Cruiser hybrid at launch. I feel the original J300 chassis isn't engineered to offer hybrid version and significant reengineering is required.

Toyota insists the battery cannot be packaged into the frame like Ford does on the F-150 so there is zero chance the battery get damaged during offroading. This limits the battery placement to under second row. There's space in the larger Tundra/Sequoia but probably not sufficient space for the shorter J300 chassis.

Also while J300 lost 200kg of curve weight, it also lost 70kg of GVM. this means the payload capacity of LX600 is only 620-700kg. We know iForce Max is 180kg extra so a LX hybrid would have unusable payload (440-520kg/1000-1150lbs). It won't carry 7 passengers and full tank of fuel. The chassis needs a lot higher GVM to still be practical.
 

mikeavelli

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My .02 on this LX after thinking more and more about it: I think the frustration lies in the fact that the LX is "flagship" in name but not fully a Lexus flagship in execution -- and a vehicle that is trying to serve too many audiences. Lexus should have gone further and positioned it more upmarket considering buyer tastes and shifting forces in the segment. Essentially, less compromises and doubling down on what an LX should be.

We get upset because it's compared to the Escalade or Wagoneer and doesn't compare favorably, but Lexus really did deliver a product that's something of a "tweener" between the GX and the American BOF vehicles. It's also supposed to fill the role of the Land Cruiser, be an ultimate luxury BOF icon, and there's an expectation of some shoppers that "ok it's the biggest Lexus so it should be a good family hauler with the most room." The LX falls short of #1 and #3, but should excel at #2 which is how/what it was in the past.

Think about it...
Not so Flagship: LX has less technology and features than the NX and RX. Interior is not great. Needs more power. Missing some luxury features from even the 2018 LS. Interior is not as provocative and unique as the LC. Not really that big for passenger and storage space.
Flagship: Land Cruiser roots; Everyone just expects it to be one since it's an "L"X and this is an SUV-crazy market.

I think it would be more well received if things were a little different:

3 powertrains with 3.4L V6 ICE not offered:
  • Base: 3.4L V6 (iForce MAX) hybrid
  • Upgrade option: TT V8
  • BEV follows later
Three trim "journeys" with no base/premium trims offered:
  • F SPORT--> F SPORT Performance/F
  • Luxury --> Ultra Luxury
  • Off Road --> Ultimate Off Road
Revised interior with more customization:
  • Dual screens are killed in favor of 14" infotainment screen
  • Additional interior and exterior color options
  • Additional interior trim and exterior wheel options
  • Needs added tech and luxury options from the '23 RX and even the LS
  • More detailing and "luxury" touches on the door panels after the dash is revised
  • LSS 3.0, panoramic roof, massaging seats, power door closers, power window shades, etc.

These changes would help push the LX further upmarket and eliminate some of the comparisons/expectations around it being a family hauler or "not as good as the Escalade, Navigator, etc". Does it really matter that much since they're sold out globally for 2 years? No but...

... Right now, the LX isn't standing up so well as a flagship effort in comparison to Lexus other flagships and even the RX. My primary concern is that once the new GX and TX arrive, Lexus is going to have 3 SUVs that are all very close to each other in size and the LX's flagship status is probably going to be harder to understand or justify. If it stayed on the current platform but incorporated the changes above, there would be no questioning or disputing it's place as the Lexus SUV flagship on merit -- not on name. To be clear, I am not asking for the LX to become the Sequoia as I think the TX will cover that just fine, but Lexus should use the Land Cruiser roots and build upon that for an ultimate performing off road/ultra luxury SUV experience that's significantly elevated -- not just a little lipstick and heels.

Also, the GX should have the LX's tune of the 3.4L TT V6 -- not a detuned version just so the LX can be "king" and rob the others of equipment and power they should have. I hate when Lexus does stuff like this.

I think the disconnect is people who want a big big family SUV are not looking at the LX. The LX predates all the larger competition. The LX is a lifestyle vehicle here and always has been. It CAN go off road if you want though most don’t. It is more Range Rover and G Wagon than Escalade or Grand Wagonnet or Navigator.

The LX/LC are global thus they can’t get much larger. They moved the Prado badge from the larger LC to the 4/runner GX. I’ve driven them overseas and especially in the Carribena the roads are narrow and the LX/LC are damn near too big. An Escalade would be a hassle and no one would be want it there.

We can look at how some other luxury brands did things differently. I’m not saying one way is better than the other.

LX- always LC based. Global. LC doesn’t grow so LX doesn’t.
Escalade- Always Tahoe/pick up based. Those vehicles grow every generation. Thus the Escalade grows.
QX80- remember the QX4? This vehicle began life as a pathfinder. Then they moved it to the QX56 and it became much larger and Titan/Armada based asks the Americans. Then they moved it to the Nissan Patrol which is global and slightly larger than the LX. It isn’t as revered as the LandCruiser.

We know dealers have begged for an Escalade competitor. Thus we know the rumored TX is coming. We know it will be built in the USA. Me thinks it won’t be sent overseas.

Problem solved :)
 
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ssun30

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The Escalade and Navigator have almost zero offroad capability because they are too big for most trails and those IRS don't help.

True story: back when I was in China our overland club went to the Gobi desert every couple of months. We usually only bring Wranglers and Prados but once we were just trying to figure out how well some people's luxury SUVs did on desert trails.

One guy brought an Escalade. Got stuck after 200 meters, had to winch him out and he quit when manual mode refused to stay in gear and cause him to lose traction too often. A LX got stuck after 1km because the idiot forgot to air down. But unstuck himself with CRAWL control. He got stuck a second time and quit because he didn't want to damage it. 5 minutes into the trail we saw a Q7 with smoke coming out of the engine bay and waiting for rescue. A RR did the entire distance because the driver is the most experienced in the club, but AC stopped blowing cold air towards the end. The only one getting out unscathed was a Cayenne S.

This story sounds so stereotypical, but stereotypes exist for good reasons.

The QX56 is actually very good despite not being as tough as LX. It has IRS but the hydropneumatic suspension works like magic. Extremely comfortable on uneven road. The 5.6 V8 feels as powerful as the 5.7 but almost 20% more efficient thanks to the direct injection upgrade. A guy brought his QX 4 times and everytime he kept up perfectly fine with Wranglers and Prados.
 
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mikeavelli

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The Escalade and Navigator have almost zero offroad capability because they are too big for most trails and those IRS don't help.

True story: back when I was in China our overland club went to the Gobi desert every couple of months. We usually only bring Wranglers and Prados but once we were just trying to figure out how well some people's luxury SUVs did on desert trails.

One guy brought an Escalade. Got stuck after 200 meters, had to winch him out and he quit when manual mode refused to stay in gear and cause him to lose traction too often. A LX got stuck after 1km because the idiot forgot to air down. But unstuck himself with CRAWL control. He got stuck a second time and quit because he didn't want to damage it. 5 minutes into the trail we saw a Q7 with smoke coming out of the engine bay and waiting for rescue. A RR did the entire distance because the driver is the most experienced in the club, but AC stopped blowing cold air towards the end. The only one getting out unscathed was a Cayenne S.

This story sounds so stereotypical, but stereotypes exist for good reasons.

Haha yup. Lexus used to have off road courses with the competition like 15 years ago. I remember how the LX could easily climb the course and the Escalades etc would get wheel spin and it would take forever for them to do the same course.

Now again most people aren’t using it like this in America but it’s part of the lifestyle aspect.

-m-
 

Gecko

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I think the disconnect is people who want a big big family SUV are not looking at the LX. The LX predates all the larger competition. The LX is a lifestyle vehicle here and always has been. It CAN go off road if you want though most don’t. It is more Range Rover and G Wagon than Escalade or Grand Wagonnet or Navigator.

The LX/LC are global thus they can’t get much larger. They moved the Prado badge from the larger LC to the 4/runner GX. I’ve driven them overseas and especially in the Carribena the roads are narrow and the LX/LC are damn near too big. An Escalade would be a hassle and no one would be want it there.

We can look at how some other luxury brands did things differently. I’m not saying one way is better than the other.

LX- always LC based. Global. LC doesn’t grow so LX doesn’t.
Escalade- Always Tahoe/pick up based. Those vehicles grow every generation. Thus the Escalade grows.
QX80- remember the QX4? This vehicle began life as a pathfinder. Then they moved it to the QX56 and it became much larger and Titan/Armada based asks the Americans. Then they moved it to the Nissan Patrol which is global and slightly larger than the LX. It isn’t as revered as the LandCruiser.

We know dealers have begged for an Escalade competitor. Thus we know the rumored TX is coming. We know it will be built in the USA. Me thinks it won’t be sent overseas.

Problem solved :)

I think the problem is not so much the size or the fact that the competition is larger, but that the LX is really not "flagship" enough - so it's not a 3-row great family hauler and not that impressive as a flagship. RR and G class offer V8s, major customization and personalization, AMGs, PHEVs, ultra luxury features and top technology.

LX has less technology than the NX, less luxury features than the LS, a less appealing interior than the RX and less power than everything else in its class regardless of size.

TX will appeal to people just looking for more space, but is the LX really that appealing as the flagship Lexus utility vehicle? G Class and Range Rover are both smaller than the LX but undoubtedly seen as flagships across the industry because they offer so much more than the LX does, in smaller packages.

Imagine if the LX came with a 14" screen, pano roof, massaging seats, a 450hp/600lb-ft hybrid V6 and a 550hp V8 option. It would be seen the same way people see the RR and G.
 

Levi

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The LX is a Landcruiser, there is no way around. The "LX" many are asking for is not the traditional LX (Lexus rebaged Landcruiser). Maybe Lexus made a mistake naming the LX "LX, it should have been named something else and LX should have been the HPX CUV concept or something else. The LX most are "asking" is a rebadged version of Sequoia.

Mercedes also had an issue with their nomenclature. They renamed M Class, GLK and GLS to GLC, GLE and GLS, in line with their sedan counterparts, C, E and S Class.

The LX exists because the Lancruiser exists and because world wide customers buy it. Compared to competitors, for mainstream buyers LS and LC also are not flagship models because they don't have 'everything touchscreen'.
 

NXracer

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Great Points.

Just to add, I dont believe the TX is designed to offer the anything at the Escalade/ESV level. I do think buyers are in for a treat, after the RX reveal but if you are looking for a big long BOF BUS, its Sequoia or nothing (which in itself is not a long BUS).
 

mikeavelli

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I think the problem is not so much the size or the fact that the competition is larger, but that the LX is really not "flagship" enough - so it's not a 3-row great family hauler and not that impressive as a flagship. RR and G class offer V8s, major customization and personalization, AMGs, PHEVs, ultra luxury features and top technology.

LX has less technology than the NX, less luxury features than the LS, a less appealing interior than the RX and less power than everything else in its class regardless of size.

TX will appeal to people just looking for more space, but is the LX really that appealing as the flagship Lexus utility vehicle? G Class and Range Rover are both smaller than the LX but undoubtedly seen as flagships across the industry because they offer so much more than the LX does, in smaller packages.

Imagine if the LX came with a 14" screen, pano roof, massaging seats, a 450hp/600lb-ft hybrid V6 and a 550hp V8 option. It would be seen the same way people see the RR and G.

I see what you are saying and yeah there are a few features missing. However magazines are written by civic owners with no actual clue of the market. If the LX was sitting then I would say we have a problem. With the LX sold out for at least two years obviously it’s a hit. Not what the dealers may have asked for exactly but it is a hit.

The LX wheelbase hasn’t grown in 20 years. It’s first aimed at the global market, then us. We never got any dedicated LX. What we do have in 25 years is a LX truly different from the LC.

I do like it fitting in the garage lol
 

Sulu

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I think the problem is not so much the size or the fact that the competition is larger, but that the LX is really not "flagship" enough - so it's not a 3-row great family hauler and not that impressive as a flagship. RR and G class offer V8s, major customization and personalization, AMGs, PHEVs, ultra luxury features and top technology.

LX has less technology than the NX, less luxury features than the LS, a less appealing interior than the RX and less power than everything else in its class regardless of size.

TX will appeal to people just looking for more space, but is the LX really that appealing as the flagship Lexus utility vehicle? G Class and Range Rover are both smaller than the LX but undoubtedly seen as flagships across the industry because they offer so much more than the LX does, in smaller packages.

Imagine if the LX came with a 14" screen, pano roof, massaging seats, a 450hp/600lb-ft hybrid V6 and a 550hp V8 option. It would be seen the same way people see the RR and G.
Other than the smaller size, all of this is easily fixed, if Lexus wants to do it.
 

NXracer

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I see what you are saying and yeah there are a few features missing. However magazines are written by civic owners with no actual clue of the market. If the LX was sitting then I would say we have a problem. With the LX sold out for at least two years obviously it’s a hit. Not what the dealers may have asked for exactly but it is a hit.

The LX wheelbase hasn’t grown in 20 years. It’s first aimed at the global market, then us. We never got any dedicated LX. What we do have in 25 years is a LX truly different from the LC.

I do like it fitting in the garage lol
Has the LX moved far enough away from LC in the past 25 years or has the LX been simply awarded this designation on account that the LC is no longer available stateside?

At the other end of the spectrum do we take the supply shortage ridden market numbers, "x number of years sold out" as the end all of the LX's US success?
 
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mikeavelli

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Has the LX moved past far enough from away from LC in the past 25 years or has the LX been simply awarded this designation on account that the LC is no longer available stateside?

At the other end of the spectrum do we take the supply shortage ridden market numbers, "x number of years sold out" as the end all of the LX's US success?

I mean if we look at the LC vs LX 450 it was a rebadge in the purist sense. Today they are completely different inside and out including suspension differences. I assume they share roof and maybe doors. The public hasn’t minded each generation. I mean if we look at the competition it was worse if not the same. Consumers didn’t care.

I hear you on the fact all SUVS sell but from what i’ve heard no one expected it to be this well received. Dealers have huge waiting lists. They sell as soon as they arrive. Will that change due to changes in gas prices or economics? Not sure.
 

Levi

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Today they are completely different inside and out including suspension differences.
There is still more difference between ES and Avalon, or NX and RAV4 than LX and Landcruiser. The former are different cars using the same base/platform. The later are the same cars where one has things done to it to be different.
 

mikeavelli

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There is still more difference between ES and Avalon, or NX and RAV4 than LX and Landcruiser. The former are different cars using the same base/platform. The later are the same cars where one has things done to it to be different.

Not sure I agree with that…
 

mordecai

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The LX places last in a 4-way comparison against the Escalade, Grand Wagoneer, and Navigator.

But as the Lexus Land Cruiser, there's also a lot of standard-issue Toyota on display for a vehicle that costs $107,585 as tested. When you stop for fuel, you pull a flimsy plastic flap to open the filler door and then unscrew an actual gas cap. The running boards are fixed, not power-operated like the others in this test. There's no hands-free cruise control, no massaging seats, no panoramic roof. Some of our phones wouldn't fit on the wireless charger unless we removed the case.

Had this shootout taken place entirely off-road, we bet the Lexus would have won. As the upscale offshoot of the Toyota Land Cruiser, the LX600 F Sport has the goods for overlanding excellence: a four-wheel-drive system with low range, a limited-slip rear differential, and a clever display that shows you what's underneath the vehicle by recording the path ahead and then transposing it to a see-through overhead view. Everyone loves glass-bottom-boat mode.

 

JustADude

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The LX will have a hybrid option soon enough, since we know all of their products will have an "electrified" version. I think the LX/LC will have a bigger electric motor than tundra to give more power and torque, we should see at least 460hp since LX has 20 more hp than tundra, I'd say around 480hp and maybe close to 650lbft for LX750H. If you guys remember, last year we got a "leak" saying LX750H will have 480hp 650lbft of torque, so that could be very true.
 
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