300-Series Land Cruiser (Next LX)

Carmaker1

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So...that August 2020 Job 1? It just might be a redesigned Land Cruiser.

Mules have been spotted by media, but not photographed. I don't work for PR departments, but I am a quick learner of what they do.

I am beginning to think why we don't see as many spy shots from Japanese automakers.

They are paying off photographers and have been well ahead of that curve, way before anyone else.

Last spring, the 300 mules were running around. The actual vehicle has been deliberately hidden.

We'll see if this August 2020 report is accurate.
 

spwolf

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So...that August 2020 Job 1? It just might be a redesigned Land Cruiser.

Mules have been spotted by media, but not photographed. I don't work for PR departments, but I am a quick learner of what they do.

I am beginning to think why we don't see as many spy shots from Japanese automakers.

They are paying off photographers and have been well ahead of that curve, way before anyone else.

Last spring, the 300 mules were running around. The actual vehicle has been deliberately hidden.

We'll see if this August 2020 report is accurate.
Exciting.

LX pretty hard product to do very different than today so I have to wonder aside from platform and powertrains, what will change in the execution.
 

Carmaker1

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Exciting.

LX pretty hard product to do very different than today so I have to wonder aside from platform and powertrains, what will change in the execution.
Let's hope. I had once said July 2020, but thought things got delayed. Naturally I would have dismissed this, but it lines up with the start of production. That's too much of a coincidence.

Lack of testers doesn't mean much or is that something to worry about? I would hope not (ie IS). I trust that now is the time everything changes, because it would really help space out Tundra and Land Cruiser launches.

Between G-wagen and Bentayga, LX is supposed to take that approach.
 

spwolf

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Between G-wagen and Bentayga, LX is supposed to take that approach.
so we have one traditional SUV in G-wagen with up-to-date interior design borrowed from top of the line other MB vehicles, and then Bentayga on unibody platform from Q7.

So lighter platform still body on frame, bi-turbo V8, interior based on latest Lexus concepts and boxy but still a bit adventurous exterior to differentiate from LC and other brands?
 

Carmaker1

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And apparently the report is inaccurate per a member who shall not be named. Makes plenty of sense what he says.
 

Carmaker1

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so we have one traditional SUV in G-wagen with up-to-date interior design borrowed from top of the line other MB vehicles, and then Bentayga on unibody platform from Q7.

So lighter platform still body on frame, bi-turbo V8, interior based on latest Lexus concepts and boxy but still a bit adventurous exterior to differentiate from LC and other brands?
It's a mystery to me what will happen. By the way stupid voice-to-text messed up my last post. The report was inaccurate not accurate.
 

ssun30

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Getting pretty excited for the LC300. Really hope for a more hardcore offroad version like TRD Pros in NA. The LC200 is wonderful but does not have the ground clearance to go everywhere. Something like a factory 1-2 inch lift with 32-33 inch tyres are certainly welcome. They need to have a true direct answer to the G-Wagen.
 

spwolf

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Getting pretty excited for the LC300. Really hope for a more hardcore offroad version like TRD Pros in NA. The LC200 is wonderful but does not have the ground clearance to go everywhere. Something like a factory 1-2 inch lift with 32-33 inch tyres are certainly welcome. They need to have a true direct answer to the G-Wagen.
TRD Pro's are very american with those huge wheels... i bet LC200 will get something like sport version internationally. Fun fact, there are official Toyota kits for sand, that improve approach angle, which is probably what is needed the most. Same for Prado.

Otherwise, about some huge conceptual changes to the vehicle, i dont really get that part since both LC200 and LC150 sell like crazy worldwide - annual sales are around 400,000 units per year.
 

Carmaker1

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TRD Pro's are very american with those huge wheels... i bet LC200 will get something like sport version internationally. Fun fact, there are official Toyota kits for sand, that improve approach angle, which is probably what is needed the most. Same for Prado.

Otherwise, about some huge conceptual changes to the vehicle, i dont really get that part since both LC200 and LC150 sell like crazy worldwide - annual sales are around 400,000 units per year.
🙂 Well...I don't remember mentioning that aloud, but I'm very forgetful with short term lol.

The next TLC...well the current one sells terribly stateside. That has to change, so they can no longer just ship over a semi-full spec TLC and charge markup for it.

They charge too much for a vehicle that cannot even be bought with every single option available in a global 200.

The buyer base for USA wants something more dedicated I imagine, as the LX and TLC cannibalize each other.

Since the FJ60 and 80, they have been gradually taking an upmarket ascent with the full size model. A lot of folks are ignorant of the reality of what these vehicles really meant in the 1960s.

They were not called "4x4s" or SUVs. They were raised family wagons with 4WD. Some were shared with trucks like the Chevrolet Suburban. Others were basically a traditional BOF wagon lifted up and taller body to keep things symmetrical.

The death of the FJ40 in 1984 never meant the Land Cruiser "died" like a lot diehards try and espouse as fact. It came in multiple versions simply, family utility 50-Series and compact FJ40. Post 1984, 70 replaced it and 60-Series carried the nameplate, then others as well from 1990s as the full size became more elevated.

(If Lexus existed in 1966, the 50-Series would've launched as a Lexus and not a Toyota Land Cruiser.)

The Sequoia killed US TLC sales from 2001-on (arrived 2000), as seen by 2001 CY sales in USA.

Many affluent families who lived and died by Toyota in the 90s, bought the 100 because it was the biggest and best Toyota offered.

The less aware from 2000-on, settled for the Sequoia as some substitute or as an alternative, so they wouldn't have to go American nameplate.

Anecdotally, the small bubble I grew up with of affluent immigrant professionals, only went Land Cruiser pre-2000. Being ignorant of the J100 benefits, a lot them skipped LC and went Sequoia as early as autumn 2000 or LX470.

Over time, the Sequoias didn't hold up as long as those who wisely kept their 100s. LX470 owners went 570 or GX460.

In 1999, the 100 was tops across the board. Top notch interior and technology to boot. (No longer the case)

The only competition was the Range Rover P38A stateside and ultra expensive Europa Geländewagen at $120k.

The early 2000s brought new problems, as the X5 4.4i & 4.8i started arriving in volume, Escalade was redesigned, G-Class became MBUSA official in 2001, new L322 Range Rover took luxury to higher heights, Navigator improved, and Porsche came to market.

Mid-2000s were even worse, with more premium large utilies coming on deck.

The Land Cruiser become a prestige nameplate in the early 80s, which ironically resembled the upcoming 4-door Range Rover in profile before its own 1981 debut (previously 2dr).

1998001_1981_Land-cruiser_FJ60.jpg

Take a trip back to 1980 and tell me if any other 4-door 4WD wagon looked this modern and tasteful against the 2-door Range Rover. Toyota was ambitious as heck. If only Lexus already existed...

The 80-Series made it the darling daily driver and chauffeured ute of many high profile individuals globally in the 1990s and the 100 was meant to further feed that market. King Kong in tux.

The long model runs are also probably because Toyota doesn't breakeven until 6/8ths through the model life. BMW keeps it at 5/8ths.

The 2 generation experiment to make the Land Cruiser solely an elite vehicle in all aspects in USA, failed long term and they might be going back to basics.

I imagine it will be more halo model than luxurious flagship. Not because I said so, but someone else said so.

The idea to evolve the seemingly successful 100 series into a much fancier and more robust vehicle per 200 wasn't the right business case for the United States. Hindsight is 20/20.

They learned, now they can regroup and figure out what needs to be done.

Going forward, the vehicle needs to be more specialized, because people who buy these things would rather just go for the Lexus dealer experience and badge.

The focus on the change in product, is likely because of what they feel US buyers will pay for.

The new problem is does this cannibalize the 4Runner? I guess we have to see what actually happens.

The Land Cruiser nameplate has never left the United States because it was the first successful product in United States that allowed for the viable importation of Corona, Corolla, and Cressida nameplates, which gave way to also Camry, Avalon, and RAV4.

Motor Trend's writer Jonny Lieberman claims it will be discontinued stateside. Well, some of us have heard different. Just the same as BS I've heard about the Bronco programs, which I know well enough about to dismiss from obtuse media.
 
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Levi

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In Europe there is no LX. Will it come this time?

In France all Lexus' are hybrid. The only non-hybrid are RC F, LC 500 and LS 500.

Other than the LC-F, I doubt there will be other non-hybrid models.
 

ssun30

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Why would the Land Cruiser cannabalize the 4Runner? They are two different segments at two different price points.

IMO if 4Runner does not unify with next LCP, it should shrink in size not grow. I don't know how many 4Runner buyers go for the 3rd row, but it just doesn't seem necessary to keep a useless 3rd row with no luggage space. Those who need a 7-seat family vehicle tend to buy the Highlander anyway. Ideally the 4Runner should be similar size as the FJ Cruiser with short front and rear overhang, but realistically it could be like a Fortuner for practicality. The 4Runner can be a better dedicated offroad SUV by losing the extra overhang and some weight to better compete with the Wrangler and Bronco.
 

maiaramdan

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If you asked me, 4runner shall be the new FJ cruiser facing bronco and get another mini variant, and then return Prado shall replace the the current 4runner in NA market

Something like the relation between G and GLB
G is the luxury BOF offroader and GLB it's small mono sibling
 
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Carmaker1

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In Europe there is no LX. Will it come this time?

In France all Lexus' are hybrid. The only non-hybrid are RC F, LC 500 and LS 500.

Other than the LC-F, I doubt there will be other non-hybrid models.
Probably not, if it will still be BOF. On one end, one hears it will just become "extremely luxurious, which is expected. The last redesign was 12 years ago this month, so of course after 14 years it must evolve significantly.

I am thinking like LFA and LF-LC, the LF-1 could be a 5 year thing and take longer than expected. It's definitely it's own program distinct from LX, as it has a separate program code within Toyota.

The LX having a hybrid may not be enough to bring it to other parts of Europe. Trademarks say something usually.
 

Carmaker1

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Why would the Land Cruiser cannabalize the 4Runner? They are two different segments at two different price points.

IMO if 4Runner does not unify with next LCP, it should shrink in size not grow. I don't know how many 4Runner buyers go for the 3rd row, but it just doesn't seem necessary to keep a useless 3rd row with no luggage space. Those who need a 7-seat family vehicle tend to buy the Highlander anyway. Ideally the 4Runner should be similar size as the FJ Cruiser with short front and rear overhang, but realistically it could be like a Fortuner for practicality. The 4Runner can be a better dedicated offroad SUV by losing the extra overhang and some weight to better compete with the Wrangler and Bronco.
There are some things I have not said in the forums because it's possibly privileged information I was given and I don't want to disregard the wishes of source, by stating too much.

I have said before that the US market Land Cruiser per Toyota USA (unofficially ) will change focus. That came from a private conversation on here and I trust it.

Another person expressed annoyance and frustration with that on the premise they want a more luxurious Land Cruiser. I speculated that maybe only US versions will differ.

The way it is being done makes me question if the 4Runner can coexist below it, with a new lower price ceiling being needed?

A cheaper 4Runner or is the gap just being reduced between decked out 4Runners and base price of TLC?

I have hinted at this for months, without saying everything. Unless LE gets a private, "members only" section, I am going to be more careful about what I say going forward.

That being said I cannot believe I did not recall that the N280 has a 7-seat configuration🤦‍♂️! The things that one misses, especially as someone that greatly respects that nameplate (I'm an avid off-road enthusiast), driven many, and kept a close eye for years.
 
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maiaramdan

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There are some things I have not said in the forums because it's possibly privileged information I was given and I don't want to disregard the wishes of source, by stating too much.

I have said before that the US market Land Cruiser per Toyota USA (unofficially ) will change focus. That came from a private conversation on here and I trust it.

Another person expressed annoyance and frustration with that on the premise they want a more luxurious Land Cruiser. I speculated that maybe only US versions will differ.

The way it is being done makes me question if the 4Runner can coexist below it, with a lower price ceiling being needed.

I have hinted at this for months without for months without saying everything. Unless LE gets a private members only section, I am going to be more careful about what I say going forward.

That being said I cannot believe I did not recall that the N280 has a 7-seat configuration🤦‍♂️! The things that one misses, especially as someone that greatly respects that nameplate (I'm an avid off-road enthusiast), driven many, and kept a close eye for years.
So the LandCruiser can be like sub name
LandCruiser lux salon aka Cygnus
LandCruiser mid aka Prado

Cygnus - Sequoia can share the same long wheelbase with Tundra

Prado - Fortuner can share the same short wheelbase with Tacoma

Leaving the 4Runner with the Hilux as the new generation FJ cruiser

So it will be a complete BOF lineup
 

Will1991

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I see... I've just seen Toyota USA product line up, and here in Europe we've two versions for the LC, the V8 diesel (J200) and the 4 cylinder version (J150/Prado)... This last one isn't available at USA...

Now I see what can come out of this, will be hard to keep 2 models fighting almost for the same type of costumer...
 

Carmaker1

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Just to add, some of my previous commentary was messed up by voice to text and autocorrect. I am sorry, because it makes it hard to read and understand what I am saying, especially if it is too lengthy.
 

Carmaker1

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So the LandCruiser can be like sub name
LandCruiser lux salon aka Cygnus
LandCruiser mid aka Prado

Cygnus - Sequoia can share the same long wheelbase with Tundra

Prado - Fortuner can share the same short wheelbase with Tacoma

Leaving the 4Runner with the Hilux as the new generation FJ cruiser

So it will be a complete BOF lineup
A Land Cruiser sub brand would have been a nice idea, like will be the case with Bronco from October of this year. A larger T3 U553.5 Expedition and P702 F-150 Bronco derivative was not developed, because of CAFE and lack of capacity for it.

That should have been the way to separate unibody Toyota utilities from truck based vehicles. Oh well, Toyota marketing clearly know better than we do
 

Carmaker1

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I see... I've just seen Toyota USA product line up, and here in Europe we've two versions for the LC, the V8 diesel (J200) and the 4 cylinder version (J150/Prado)... This last one isn't available at USA...

Now I see what can come out of this, will be hard to keep 2 models fighting almost for the same type of costumer...
Very true. I'm just wondering if the next Land Cruiser will be differentiated between markets heavily.

Full TLC range for non-US and hardcore focus for USA, lower pricepoint, topping out at $70-80k USD.

I honestly would rather that the person who told me this information discussed this themselves LOL.
 

Will1991

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Very true. I'm just wondering if the next Land Cruiser will be differentiated between markets heavily.

Full TLC range for non-US and hardcore focus for USA, lower pricepoint, topping out at $70-80k USD.

I honestly would rather that the person who told me this information discussed this themselves LOL.
I guess a LC buyer doesn't have a lot more choices... All of my acquaintances that own a LC (won't mind which one), they are the most passionates owners around... They just love them... Even if they try other brands/models a LC will find it's way "home" again.

Honestly, I won't mind lacking some more updates around LC's if we get more updates on the IS thread :)
 
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