300-Series Land Cruiser (Next LX)

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Not saying the info isn't true, but I will believe a 416hp/443lb-ft TT V6 4Runner/Tacoma when I see it.

We are talking about vehicles that start in the $30k realm and go up to ~$45k. A brand new, twin-turbo V6 with a 10AT is a huge investment for something like that. I assume these new versions will be more expensive, but that just seems like a lot of money and engine for something that would be perfectly fine with a lot "less."

Are we nearing the era of $60k 4Runner and Tacoma...?
I believe the 10AT is only reserved for Lexus. Toyota is upgrading their cars to the 8AT that's in the Camry, Avalon, Sienna and ES.

You also mentioned the price point of the 4Runner/Tacoma? Who says they have to remain the same price? They have room to move upmarket. Why wouldn't Toyota/Lexus add an engine that would solve all the car's problems? And be revolutionizing the rest of the car? The further injection in investment and R&D is crucial for the success of the cars in the future.
 

maiaramdan

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Honestly I am here in the website approximately from day 1 and always afraid to post any info I got, until the AWD Camry that tend to be true, and when he told me about this news I posted it,

I am waiting as you to see if it will be true as the AWD Camry or false
 

Gecko

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I believe the 10AT is only reserved for Lexus. Toyota is upgrading their cars to the 8AT that's in the Camry, Avalon, Sienna and ES.
If the 10AT is already developed and synched to the V35A-FTS as a complete powertrain, I highly doubt Toyota has developed an 8AT along with it just to "dumb down" the Toyota product. Historically for LX/Land Cruiser, what one gets, the other gets - it's easier and cheaper that way from a product planning perspective. One potential option is that the trucks could get an 8AT for gearing/durability vs passenger cars getting a 10AT, but I expect that whatever the LX gets, the Land Cruiser will get, be it ten gears or eight. With the TNGA philosophy of consolidation and cost sharing to create better vehicles, you can probably loop Sequoia and Tundra into that, and then potentially also GX/4Runner/Tacoma.

You also mentioned the price point of the 4Runner/Tacoma? Who says they have to remain the same price? They have room to move upmarket. Why wouldn't Toyota/Lexus add an engine that would solve all the car's problems? And be revolutionizing the rest of the car? The further injection in investment and R&D is crucial for the success of the cars in the future.
I don't disagree with you that there is room to move both upmarket, but what happens at the base level? Turbo 4? GR V6? 4runner and Tacoma owners/shoppers are especially weary of small displacement turbocharged engines and the vast majority buy V6s. To justify the cost of an engine like V35A-FTS, they will have to package both trucks differently from what they've done historically - especially the Tacoma. Too much of a price hike is not a good thing - look at Tahoe/Suburban sales and incentives. But then again, increasing quality and appeal of lower/mid level products is part of the TNGA philosophy, so maybe it is in the cards...
 

Gecko

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Honestly I am here in the website approximately from day 1 and always afraid to post any info I got, until the AWD Camry that tend to be true, and when he told me about this news I posted it,

I am waiting as you to see if it will be true as the AWD Camry or false
We are always appreciative of anything you can share!
 
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maiaramdan

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Honestly I am thinking that for the
Full size NA V8, Hybrid V6, TT V6
MID size TT V6, NA V6, NA 4, Hybrid 4
 
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Sure hope they stay with the V8 and a full frame don’t want to end up with a Range Rover. Since I only have 30,000 miles on my 2015 LX 570 and it’s good for at least for 500,000 miles I’m not gonna live long enough to wear it out so you guys enjoy your V6’s

Toyota chief engineer stated a few years ago that the LC/LX was built to survive 25 years of service in a Third World country so maybe 50 years in the United States
 
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maiaramdan

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body on frame is 100% here to stay to the whole 11 or 12 models

Don't worry about it
 

CIF

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Got to hear this from the same Russian guy who told me before about the AWD Camry

Regarding to both V8's
4.5L Diesel & 4.7 Gasoline and the V6 4.0L Gasoline

All the 3 will be replaced with the 3.5TT & 3.5 Hybrid,, even he told me that as the new Rav4 the hybrid will be the more powerful so I guess that means that the Hybrid will use forced engine not NA

First Edit: That means the Top V8 will get a new V8 and not be replaced with the 3.5 V6

Second Edit: That Japanese report was talking about the international version of the Land Cruiser which as I mentioned uses 2 old V8's and 1 old V6

Third Edit: the new 3.5L V6 will top the next GX, Prado, 4Runner, Fortuner & Tacoma, not for Hilux though as the Hilux may had 2 versions of Hybrid and 1 gasoline, the same of what Toyota keep doing lately, the gasoline version of the Hilux will be shared with the new Camry 4 cylinders
I think they want to milk the R&D costs to the max.
Thanks for the info. We shall see what happens, especially what markets get what engine.

Toyota chief engineer stated a few years ago that the LC/LX was built to survive 25 years of service in a Third World country so maybe 50 years in the United States
I can't speak for the U.S. but here in Canada some of the roads are third world level of bad. As a Toyota Motor Company lifelong enthusiast and student of the company it's always fascinated me as to what is exactly Toyota's definition of service life? I've never heard of any Toyota employee explicitly define it. Is it service duration until an engine or transmission rebuild is required? Is it simply the service duration when many major components start to require replacement? Is it service duration until the frame or unibody starts to deteriorate? Or is it simply when the vehicle starts requiring more than routine maintenance?

On a related note, a few years ago there was a famous case of a 2nd gen Tundra in the U.S. reaching and exceeding 1 million miles of mileage. Toyota bought that truck from the owner and gave him a new Tundra I believe, and then Toyota proceeded to completely dismantle and intensely analyze every part of the truck at that mileage. Now I know for a fact that 1 million miles by far exceeds Toyota's typical service life for a Tundra.
 
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ssun30

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In Tibet most HZJ80s, known locally as 'the 4500s', built in 95-97 were still in service till 2014 when they were forced to retire due to emissions. That's 17 years operating at over 4,500m of elevation and on gravel roads. At these altitudes the engine degrades about three times quicker due to constant oxygen starvation. Tibet is about the harshest condition one can imagine due to the elevation and infrastructure. I have not heard of any charter drivers saying the vehicle needing any rebuild even after 17 years and over 300k km. In fact most of them are upset they have to operate more expensive modern Land Cruisers. Today the '4500s' were still bought by offroad enthusiasts as beaters. That is about the most durable LC generation ever built and 25 years is definitely on the low end of 'service life'.
The later LC100 was a less durable generation, especially the IFS UZJ100s. These are retiring at about the same time as the HZJ80s despite being on average 7 years newer. The only ones operating are built after 2005 (the more durable solid axle HZJ105s are very rare in Tibet).
LC200s are harder to comment since we will have to wait until 2030s to see them nearing end of service.
 

spwolf

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Got to hear this from the same Russian guy who told me before about the AWD Camry

Regarding to both V8's
4.5L Diesel & 4.7 Gasoline and the V6 4.0L Gasoline

All the 3 will be replaced with the 3.5TT & 3.5 Hybrid,, even he told me that as the new Rav4 the hybrid will be the more powerful so I guess that means that the Hybrid will use forced engine not NA

First Edit: That means the Top V8 will get a new V8 and not be replaced with the 3.5 V6

Second Edit: That Japanese report was talking about the international version of the Land Cruiser which as I mentioned uses 2 old V8's and 1 old V6

Third Edit: the new 3.5L V6 will top the next GX, Prado, 4Runner, Fortuner & Tacoma, not for Hilux though as the Hilux may had 2 versions of Hybrid and 1 gasoline, the same of what Toyota keep doing lately, the gasoline version of the Hilux will be shared with the new Camry 4 cylinders
I think they want to milk the R&D costs to the max.
so any news about that V8?

As I have been talking about for a while now, Toyota is going to be using smaller number of engines but will then put state of the art engines everywhere. So they develop less various displacement and engine families, but then use those savings to put latest tech in them.

So Tacoma and other similar vehicles with get 2.5l with all the tech that exists, instead of some stone age 2.7l 4cly. V6 will be GR 3.5l.
3.5tt will be reused everywhere. 3.5 hybrid as well.

Rav4 might get another hybrid that is missing from the powertrain list... i wonder what will that be... that will go into hilux, highlander, etc, etc.
 

spwolf

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Specifically, I am not sure about this part being true. With regard to the 2019 Rav4, Toyota has been promoting the Rav4 XSE as the "fastest and sportiest" model out of the lineup, but that's because it's packing the same hybrid 4cylinder setup as the ES, Avalon and Camry. This makes it faster than the 203/206hp A25A-FKS I4, but I would not use this as the crystal ball to determine that all of these other vehicles will use a turbocharged hybrid setup. That, in particular, would be an extremely expensive drivetrain that would probably be reserved for LC/LS/LX/LF-1 in its first iteration. Possibly also Land Cruiser, but certainly such an engine would be way too expensive for 4Runner, Tacoma and possibly also GX.
In the powertrain chart, we are missing a hybrid between 300h and 500h. I bet this will go into many larger vehicles such as Highlander and RX. What exactly will it be? I have no idea really. But it wont be too expensive I think. It will also go to Rav4 as upgrade option. Might be Multi-Stage version of 2.5l with larger battery pack and 225hp. Not sure about turbos, because hybrids + turbos are too expensive.

And 3.5tt hybrid i doubt very much, sorry guys. Way too expensive and limited to small amount of vehicles.
 

maiaramdan

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@spwolf, I think you are right
Regarding those
1.0
1.2
1.6
1.8
2.0

I think they will use only 3 from them, then the new 2.5 NA or NA Hybrid as in new Camry and Rav4 from same engine will be
2.5 T for the next generation NX
2.5 T Hybrid for the current generation warm hatch Toyota Corolla
The 2.5 will then receive TT as the 3.5
2.5 TT To be found in likes of mid of range next generation IS, with the 2.5 TT Hybrid to be found also in the Highlander

Then we go up to the 3.5,
Which will be ditched from all the FWD sedans and remains as is in trucks, SUVs and CUVs, with it's Hybrid version as the current RX, the next logical step will be the 3.5 T and its 3.5 T Hybrid which can be found in 4 Runner, Venza if they returned it back again, Crown & Mark-X in Japan then the normal 3.5 TT which will be used in LQ and LC plus its current LS usage with 3.5 TT Hybrid to be in between the 5.0 NA Hybrid and the 3.5 TT in the LS, LC, LQ lineup then we will go to the 5.0 T Hybrid to be the main F for next generation IS coupe / Sedan and the top in the LX, Tundra, Sequoia & Land Cruiser
Then finally the 5.0 TT Hybrid to be used in the LS , LC & LQ F based versions

That's I think what will be TMC approach with their complete engine lineup

6 variations from the same 2.5 half of them hybrids
6 variations from the same 3.5 half of them hybrids
3 variations from newly based 5.0 all of them hybrids
 

Carmaker1

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My brain is frazzled with some recent news. Between what I hear from @maiaramdan , @Gecko , and now this guy, wow!

I suggest you all read a post in the 2019 Highlander thread at Club Lexus. A user there that works for Toyota "America" ;), will tell you all you need to know. Please just be careful and NOT expose him too much to attention from corporate Toyota. I'm all about protecting the messenger, as I had to learn my lesson as a JLR employee.
 
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The turbocharged V6 will be a significant upgrade over the current V8 in multiple ways, including reduced weight on the front end, improved torque, increased horsepower, and improved fuel mileage. It's a win-win all the way. I will definitely be getting one!
 

Levi

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Probably the TMCar I am looking forward to the most. It is the ultimate all-rounder, especially in our time where CUVs/SUVs are the normal/standard car.
 

spwolf

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Probably the TMCar I am looking forward to the most. It is the ultimate all-rounder, especially in our time where CUVs/SUVs are the normal/standard car.
:)

LC300 will be simply huge... it cant be all-arounder, but I wonder if they do something with it to increase sales in the USA. Like they did for GX.
 

Levi

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:)

LC300 will be simply huge... it cant be all-arounder, but I wonder if they do something with it to increase sales in the USA. Like they did for GX.

When I see people driving around for purpose in light commercial vehicles in vehicle crowded narrow urban spaces, and the number of big German CUVs/SUVs in city center's and underground tight parking spaces, the Land Cruiser cannot be an issue, it is not bigger, just beefier.
 

Gecko

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:)

LC300 will be simply huge... it cant be all-arounder, but I wonder if they do something with it to increase sales in the USA. Like they did for GX.
There have been rumors for years that dealers want more (cheaper) trim levels and options, like 4Runner: SR5, SR5 Premium, Off Road, Off Road Premium, 2 row version instead of standard 3 row, etc. I hope this comes true.

Another thing I was thinking about this weekend:

For a long time, Land Cruiser has been significantly more expensive than Expedition and Tahoe, like ~$20k spread. These days, Tahoe and Expedition have become so expensive (especially when equipped with luxury features similar to Land Cruiser), that the difference is less and less. Nicely equipped Expedition or Tahoe are $75-85k. Land Cruiser starts at $85k.

Makes me wonder how they will differentiate Land Cruiser and Sequoia, since those also have historically been priced very differently.
 
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