2021 Nissan Fairlady 400Z/Z Proto discussion

supra93

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supra93

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Imagine the possibilities with a little aftermarket support.


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supra93

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Some more info from our buddy @Carmaker1.

Carmaker1 said:
Well, considering that the final design was set about 31 months ago, it's not shocking in the least it "stayed true to the concept".
:D
Wasn't really a concept honestly, because everything was locked in 2 years ago and the showcase of "Z Proto" was to give an early reveal, after such a long wait (12 years). Once it's locked in, you can't make any more changes to the sheetmetal (at least until a mid-cycle update).

This ended up costing a quarter of a billion dollars, versus 4x to 8x that amount, to support an all-new RWD modular unibody architecture, which was an absolute non-starter where Infiniti was concerned. Ghosn approved this car as chairman (not CEO), before his arrest some 10 weeks later. RWD ICE Infiniti is just not likely going forward, so this being all-new wasn't going to work by itself.

It would be $100k to be an all-new car, an all new architecture. As January 2018, a new Z was cancelled.

Some of us (myself and 2 others) had mentioned back in the spring of 2018 that a fully 100% new car was dead and then by summer, it would be "heavily facelifted" on the same basis instead for MY 2021 (got delayed after September 2018) at a few hundred million. This is it pretty much, as anything after this is not ICE, just like the 2029 Mustang.

I didn't say much in terms of my annoyance towards and skepticism over "400Z" the last 3 years, but I don't know where the British media got "400Z" and why the rest of the idiotically obtuse media and social media hoes decided to automatically jump on that bandwagon, without verifying it to be credible. One or two places had the audacity to even claim, "400Z" had been trademarked by Nissan. Their proof was a "Z" insignia/logo and nothing else. They pretty much lied.

Knowing Nissan very well due to former business and also the patenting/trademarking process, that absolutely isn't how it works LOL. I checked globally and in comparing some in progress patents of mine (association w/employment, not sole inventor) to existing trademark filings, there's no existence of "400Z" in any trademark database nor internally has that ever been referred to. Seeing this car in 2019 (not yet in metal), it wasn't called that either back then. Regarding the VR30DETT 3.0L TT V6 for Infiniti, it presented a problem back in 2012. In 2011 or 2012, Nissan had filed several trademarks for 2014 G range. In addition to the trademarks "G37" and "G25" first filed in the mid-2000s (circa 2009 for "G25"), new trademarks of "G22d", "G30t", and "G35h" were filed in 2011-12 for the current car.

When Johan de Nysschen became head of Infiniti, months later by the fall of 2012, he quietly ordered a whole redo of the brand nomenclature to Q/QX to accommodate a perceived "downgrade" by ignorant consumers with G30t or M30t (3.0L TTV6) vs G37 & M37 (VQ37) or M56 (5.6L VK56 V8). Plus, reorganize it to something that resembled his time at Audi (A, S, R/RS, and Q).

Infiniti Renaming was announced in mid-December 2012, 3 weeks before the 2014 Q50 was unveiled and several months before 2014 models went on sale. Q50 was designed as the 3rd generation G37 from the onset and never was a Q50 during development.

When it came to Z, it was a similar story with 370Z vs 300Z, so dropping the displacement nomenclature makes sense. As you already know, trademarks have to be secured well before production starts. No 400Z trademarks exist, yet I seeing and hearing how a lot of YouTubers, are calling it "400Z" just for extra clicks and to drive traffic to them.

i-Force Max in example was filed well in advance of Tundra hybrid launch in early 2022. Same applies to most Nissan vehicles and pretty much most companies. Once you start formalizing a vehicle development program, after setting a final design, package plan, and defined set of parameters, marketing and management determine nomenclature/nameplate and file trademarks via their legal team some 2 to 2.5 years ahead. At latest, it's 1 year before launch (see IS 500). What I have seen here, is them take liberty with their reporting and behave lazily.

A lot of car news sites often take everything out of context or create their own muddled narratives, which the next person takes to be (wrongfully) accurate. There are days I just want to turn my brain off and when I read obviously misleading stuff, I become annoyed, because that neuro-vacation ends almost immediately and I have to start second guessing what I read and do their homework.

They need to separate opinion pieces from simply reporting the facts on what's here now and what's coming down the road. This whole attempting to be a cut-rate Jay Leno or Jeremy Clarkson, gets tiring when many of them use that to report info and often get it wrong LOL.

If I wasn't such a busy person nowadays and invested in my professional work (and personal life), I would start a media company and encyclopedia that is all about informativeness and dead on accuracy regarding automobiles, not always being first. Between Wikipedia, YouTubers/social media, and questionable news reporting, it's a clusterfuck of proportions and the rest of us have to play cleanup with their mistakes (ranging from minor to glaring).
 
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Some more info from our buddy @Carmaker1.

God, I freakin' love @Carmaker1 with his fact bombs.
 
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b.ba

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More interesting to me: What's that SUV in the background? It looks a bit X5/X7-ish.
I'm placing my bet on the new Infiniti QX60. It first reminded me of the redesigned Pathfinder but I remember that the QX60 hasn't been revealed yet and that the concepts/spy shots look quite similar to what is above...
 

Gor134

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That's so sad. This 400Z is basically in theory a confirmation that the Q50 and Q60 are likely going to be the last RWD Infiniti sedans. A new RWD platform would mean that the costs would be offset with parallel Infiniti models, but if that plan was cancelled in 2018 and there's no new RWD platform coming, this basically spells the end of the Q50 and Q60.
 

Levi

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That's so sad. This 400Z is basically in theory a confirmation that the Q50 and Q60 are likely going to be the last RWD Infiniti sedans. A new RWD platform would mean that the costs would be offset with parallel Infiniti models, but if that plan was cancelled in 2018 and there's no new RWD platform coming, this basically spells the end of the Q50 and Q60.
It was unfortunately very clear with the end of FX/QX70. Worst thing is even no BEV successor to that one. The Leaf once the best selling BEV is now the worst selling one. Being clear that more BEVs were to arrive, new Leaf should have been a ground up new BEV car, and an electric FX would take care of the luxury/performance/premium market.

I don't see Infiniti coming back, at least not without 100% dedication by the parent company, as we see now evidence at Lexus. When even Jaguar can't cancelled the electric XJ, Infiniti is dead, I think forever. Lexus will have to march on alone out of Japan, hopefully with backup from Mazda.
 

Sulu

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It was unfortunately very clear with the end of FX/QX70. Worst thing is even no BEV successor to that one. The Leaf once the best selling BEV is now the worst selling one. Being clear that more BEVs were to arrive, new Leaf should have been a ground up new BEV car, and an electric FX would take care of the luxury/performance/premium market.

I don't see Infiniti coming back, at least not without 100% dedication by the parent company, as we see now evidence at Lexus. When even Jaguar can't cancelled the electric XJ, Infiniti is dead, I think forever. Lexus will have to march on alone out of Japan, hopefully with backup from Mazda.
Lexus with backup from Mazda? I have some questions and concerns about that.

Why does Lexus need backup from Mazda? Mazda is a tiny, almost insignificant (in the grand scheme of things), automaker that does not even have resources to back itself up; it needs the help and resources of a big brother -- Toyota, parent of Lexus -- to back it up.

It is more like Mazda with backup from Lexus.
 

Levi

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Lexus with backup from Mazda? I have some questions and concerns about that.

Why does Lexus need backup from Mazda? Mazda is a tiny, almost insignificant (in the grand scheme of things), automaker that does not even have resources to back itself up; it needs the help and resources of a big brother -- Toyota, parent of Lexus -- to back it up.

It is more like Mazda with backup from Lexus.
Lexus does not have the prestige of the German, because Lexus is alone in Japan, no Acura, no Infiniti, so Lexus is just a souped up Toyota. Having a Lexus alternative that is not a Toyota can help Lexus' image.
 

spwolf

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Interesting, it's going to be using Mercedes' 9-Speed automatic.

I got to say though, in terms of weight, the Z is going to be a bit heavier than the GR Supra because the GR Supra's 3400 lbs for 2021 is the wet weight.

I'm very, VERY impressed by the price. Nissan is going for the neck but Toyota will need to act fast. In terms of performance, I'm confident that the GR Supra is going to take the cake but the Z makes a very compelling argument by being over $10,000 cheaper when you compare their highest trims.

pricing makes sense, if 370z is $30k base, this starting at 34k and using modified platform makes sense.

What exactly do you expect Toyota to do?
 

Sulu

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Lexus does not have the prestige of the German, because Lexus is alone in Japan, no Acura, no Infiniti, so Lexus is just a souped up Toyota. Having a Lexus alternative that is not a Toyota can help Lexus' image.
I do not understand your logic. If Lexus does not have the prestige of the Germans because it is Japanese, and you dismiss its 2 Japanese premium-badged rivals Acura and Infiniti, I do not see how you can compare Lexus with Mazda.

Lexus is a luxury brand (and let me tell you that on the street, it does have prestige) but Mazda, even with its nice interior, is still a mass-market brand; Mazda is at best a wannabe, moving "up-market" in the hope that upmarket brands have higher profit margins, which could give Mazda a bit longer to live.
 

CIF

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Wow, that 3/4 front view makes the front end look much better in my opinion than the straight-on front view. I already think the rear is an absolute home run, along with the profile and proportions. It looks like the front could be a home run in person too. I am liking this more and more.

Also that blue interior option, huge respect to Nissan for offering an interior color in a sporty model that something's other than red. Toyota, I hope you're paying attention. Sporty trims or vehicles do not mean you ONLY include black and red interiors.
 
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