Berto3818

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Morning!! so what do we think this LS600 will be? 3.5TTV6 Hybrid of 5.0V8? if it is the 8 does anyone think it will be a new motor or the current offering but made better? How much HP will the 3.5TTV6 hybrid make?
 

Gecko

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Morning!! so what do we think this LS600 will be? 3.5TTV6 Hybrid of 5.0V8? if it is the 8 does anyone think it will be a new motor or the current offering but made better? How much HP will the 3.5TTV6 hybrid make?
This has all been discussed at length on the prior pages of this thread 😊
 

Berto3818

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@Gecko Thanks Sir... I went back and read so let me rephrase. What do you or anyone think what they will do? Whats is throwing me off is they aren't putting v8 in anything below 90k anymore. of course teh 2UR-FSE is in the century but that motor and transmission is old and i went back and reference a older thread about the up and coming motors and there is no mention of a new V8 other than outside of the TTV8 that is coming.

Thank you

Markus
 

LexsCTJill

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@Gecko Thanks Sir... I went back and read so let me rephrase. What do you or anyone think what they will do? Whats is throwing me off is they aren't putting v8 in anything below 90k anymore. of course teh 2UR-FSE is in the century but that motor and transmission is old and i went back and reference a older thread about the up and coming motors and there is no mention of a new V8 other than outside of the TTV8 that is coming.

Thank you

Markus
Who has new V8 engines under 90K?
 

LexsCTJill

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[QUOTE="Gecko, post: 54071, member:
BMW, Mercedes, Genesis, etc.
[/QUOTE]

Genesis has no new engines coming that are V8. Need to spend $85K to get an E class with a V8. $77K for a V8 C class...I have no idea if those engines are new....
 

Gecko

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Genesis has no new engines coming that are V8. Need to spend $85K to get an E class with a V8. $77K for a V8 C class...I have no idea if those engines are new....
Genesis' V8 was new in 2016.

BMW M550i is from $77k

Mercedes C63 AMG is from $68k. The only E Class with a V8 is the E63S which is from $107k.
 

mikeavelli

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If there is a v-8 hybrid coming and you can get it as an f sport I would be intrigued. If it’s another special order car not sure why. The kirko glass equipped LS isn’t moving and it’s special order only I believe now.

They also need some marketing behind it. I barley recall any marketing for the LS. Maybe I should try to help :)
 
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If there is a v-8 hybrid coming and you can get it as an f sport I would be intrigued. If it’s another special order car not sure why. The kirko glass equipped LS isn’t moving and it’s special order only I believe now.

They also need some marketing behind it. I barley recall any marketing for the LS. Maybe I should try to help :)
From my sources, I was told that it's going to be a twin-turbocharged V6 hybrid a la the Toyota TS050 Hybrid LMP-1 car.
 
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What? The TS050 uses a 90-degree 2.4L V6 with a P2 hybrid layout plus through-the-road AWD which is unlike anything Toyota/Lexus makes. We still haven't heard about anything using THS-R other than the GR SS.
Aha! Slow down there mate.

Note that I said "a la" as in it will be like the engine that's in the Toyota TS050 Hybrid LMP-1 car. I didn't say it will use that said engine. I know what the engine in the LMP-1 car is and there is no way that they're going to bring an engine that expensive into a pedestrian passenger car. At least not for several years.

However, Toyota is adamant on bringing in what they've learnt in WEC to their road cars and it is evident in their newer generation hybrid vehicles. The NA V6 hybrid in the LC/LS/Crown was a bastardized stopgap because the one that they wanted to push out (the TTV6 hybrid) wasn't stamped for approval yet, also note how the current NA V6 hybrid has a weaker output than both the TTV6 and the NA V8 in the LS and LC respectively. There's a reason why that the engine I spoke about is still coming and the hybrid models in the LC and the LS will be more powerful than their normal ICE equivalent as tradition always shows.

Obviously the engine I am talking about isn't going to have exactly THSR-II but it will derive some technologies from it like the rear-biased motor to help the cars have a more responsive and more performance oriented AWD system as well as the aggressive battery regeneration that it has under lifting and braking. Also pairing it with the twin-turbocharged V6 will give it the torque that it desperately needs. The electric motors in the current multistage hybrid is quite weak in terms of torque.

EDIT: Wanted to add that the NA V6 isn't that torquey either so that makes things worse lol.
 
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CRSKTN

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I'm getting confused. Is the performance hybrid the same as the Prime/h+ technology? Is the performance e-axle something you can stick onto existing hybrid systems? I don't think so, right?
 

ssun30

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One thing I would like to add here is that the new V6TT hybrid system will probably upgrade to a new battery. The Yaris hybrid silently debuted the new generation Panasonic Li-ion battery with 4.3Ah capacity, 20% higher than the one currently used on the Prius Eco/Camry Hybrid LE/LC500h (I know they are the same battery because the capacities are all 3.6Ah with a whopping 40C discharge rate).

Assuming C-rate stays the same, the new battery could be upgraded from 1.1kWh to 1.3kWh with power up from 44kW to 53kW. The capacity is tiny but keep in mind these batteries cycle extremely quickly. At 40C it could be fully discharged and charged in just 40 seconds. I actually consider these to be a middle ground between batteries and supercaps. Assuming the V35A-FTS tune remains the same the combined output will be 363kW or 486hp. So if the 450hp rumor was true the engine could be detuned by ~30hp to gain some extra efficiency.

Aha! Slow down there mate.

Note that I said "a la" as in it will be like the engine that's in the Toyota TS050 Hybrid LMP-1 car. I didn't say it will use that said engine. I know what the engine in the LMP-1 car is and there is no way that they're going to bring an engine that expensive into a pedestrian passenger car. At least not for several years.

However, Toyota is adamant on bringing in what they've learnt in WEC to their road cars and it is evident in their newer generation hybrid vehicles. The NA V6 hybrid in the LC/LS/Crown was a bastardized stopgap because the one that they wanted to push out (the TTV6 hybrid) wasn't stamped for approval yet, also note how the current NA V6 hybrid has a weaker output than both the TTV6 and the NA V8 in the LS and LC respectively. There's a reason why that the engine I spoke about is still coming and the hybrid models in the LC and the LS will be more powerful than their normal ICE equivalent as tradition always shows.

Obviously the engine I am talking about isn't going to have exactly THSR-II but it will derive some technologies from it like the rear-biased motor to help the cars have a more responsive and more performance oriented AWD system as well as the aggressive battery regeneration that it has under lifting and braking. Also pairing it with the twin-turbocharged V6 will give it the torque that it desperately needs. The electric motors in the current multistage hybrid is quite weak in terms of torque.
So for that to happen, the car will have a motor in front of the engine to provide AWD? I guess packaging will be very tight but LS and LC are two vehicles that do have the room since they are both FMR.
 

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One thing I would like to add here is that the new V6TT hybrid system will probably upgrade to a new battery. The Yaris hybrid silently debuted the new generation Panasonic Li-ion battery with 4.3Ah capacity, 20% higher than the one currently used on the Prius Eco/Camry Hybrid LE/LC500h (I know they are the same battery because the capacities are all 3.6Ah with a whopping 40C discharge rate).

Assuming C-rate stays the same, the new battery could be upgraded from 1.1kWh to 1.3kWh with power up from 44kW to 53kW. The capacity is tiny but keep in mind these batteries cycle extremely quickly. At 40C it could be fully discharged and charged in just 40 seconds. I actually consider these to be a middle ground between batteries and supercaps. Assuming the V35A-FTS tune remains the same the combined output will be 363kW or 486hp. So if the 450hp rumor was true the engine could be detuned by ~30hp to gain some extra efficiency.
this seems realistic... do we know anything about Highlander Hybrid battery and how did they get extra power?
What was the discharge rate of previous batteries in Toyota's?

In European PR, Toyota mentioned engine being off up to 80% in the city... this number was 50% for old Yaris and 60% for new Corolla, so it was obvious that they were upping both the battery capacity and discharge rate.

It is essentially free power from them, when incorporated into current powertrains.

And of course, V6tt would be hybridized version of V35A that currently has 37% thermal efficiency, vs 41% in their new dynamic force hybrids.
 

ssun30

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this seems realistic... do we know anything about Highlander Hybrid battery and how did they get extra power?
What was the discharge rate of previous batteries in Toyota's?
Their NiMH battery has 25C max and 15C continuous. The standard battery is a stack of 6 cells in series at 7.2V and weighs 1.05kg. The Highlander uses the same cell just more of them.
Prius NiMH: 28 cells, 201.6V, 1.31kWh, 33kW
Prius Li-ion: 56 cells, 201.6V, 0.72kWh, 29kW
UX250h NiMH: 30 cells, 216V, 1.4kWh, 35kW
Camry NiMH: 34 cells, 244.8V, 1.59kWh, 40kW
Camry Li-ion: 72 cells, 259.6V, 0.93kWh, 37kW
Highlander NiMH: 40 cells, 288V, 1.87kWh, 47kW
LC500h Li-ion: 84 cells, 302.4V, 1.09kWh, 44kW

So the Highlander actually has the most powerful battery in their lineup (although the LC500h Li-ion is only half the weight). It also has bigger MG2 and PCU to use more electric boost.

An upgraded LS hybrid would have 1.3kWh and 53kW. And if NX350h uses Li-ion it would have 1.1kWh and 45kW.
 

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