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I'm not sure Lexus has anymore leeway to play with the badges once more. They learned their lesson with 200t to 300 and if they are reasonable people they will not repeat the same mistake again and for sure they will not downsize the badges. 500h will remain what it is today and 600h will be more expensive, more powerful option. If it ends up being V6TT Hybrid (most likely) I'm not sure how they are going to differentiate it from the version that will go into Tundra, Sequoia, Land Cruiser or similar. Who knows maybe 600h will be V8TT hybrid after all.
LS400 or LS500: TTV6 with 450hp, the same setup as the current LS500 but updated power output or just keep the LS500 name.

LS500h: TTV6 HEV or PHEV with 500hp. It doesn’t even need to be more powerful than LS500, the hybrid would make it quicker.

LS600h: higher output TTV6 HEV or PHEV with 600+hp, maybe TTV8, but then it might as well be called LSF.

LSF: TTV8, non hybrid with 650hp, the same as LCF. It would be a performance and driver oriented car compared to a luxury oriented LS600h.

If 4 models are too much, then just remove LS600h and make the LSF TTV8 HEV or PHEV with 650-700hp.
 
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Gecko

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In a contracting passenger car market, I think we're realistically looking at fewer models vs. more, with different options for different markets. On the other hand, I think some new models need to be added to help sales, prestige and halo effect for the rest of the lineup. At least in the USA, not sure it's worth having both LS 500h and LS 600h - most people willing to pay for the 500h would just pay a little more to get to 600h.

"500h" is a good powertrain for middle of the lineup, like ES and RX. It is not a great fit for the LS. "600h" with 450hp/500lb-ft is right for flagship products IMO.

My ideal LS lineup would be something like (with all global markets considered):

LS 450h+: (maybe 2.4L turbo) 4 cylinder + PHEV with 350hp/390lb-ft (not for USA)
LS 450: TT V6 as-is, base price drops to ~$70k base USD
LS 600h: 3.5L TT V6 + next gen hybrid with 450hp/500lb-ft, from $85k USD
LS 600: TT V8 with 550hp, 580lb-ft, from $95k USD

While I would love to see an "LS F," I think "LS 600" with a slightly detuned version of the F V8 but with crazy luxury option packages makes more sense for the LS line.

Didn't we hear somewhere that LS FCV was dropped?
 

Airplane

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In a contracting passenger car market, I think we're realistically looking at fewer models vs. more, with different options for different markets. On the other hand, I think some new models need to be added to help sales, prestige and halo effect for the rest of the lineup. At least in the USA, not sure it's worth having both LS500h and LS 600h - most people willing to pay for the 500h would just pay a little more to get to 600h.

"500h" is a good powertrain for middle of the lineup, like ES and RX. It is not a great fit for the LS. "600h" with 450hp/500lb-ft is right for flagship products IMO.

My ideal LS lineup would be something like (with all global markets considered):

LS 450h+: (maybe 2.4L turbo) 4 cylinder + PHEV with 350hp/390lb-ft (not for USA)
LS 450: TT V6 as-is, base price drops to ~$70k base USD
LS 600h: 3.5L TT V6 + next gen hybrid with 450hp/500lb-ft, from $85k USD
LS 600: TT V8 with 550hp, 580lb-ft, from $95k USD

While I would love to see an "LS F," I think "LS 600" with a slightly detuned version of the F V8 but with crazy luxury option packages makes more sense for the LS line.

Didn't we hear somewhere that LS FCV was dropped?
I find it weird if the only Lexus F vehicle be the LCF coming out in 2022. The RCF will most likely be killed by then, with no ISF and GSF.

Even if both GSF and RCF still exist by then, they would be 6 years old. Even if the LF1/LQ do come out in 2022, the F will probably come out who know? 5 years after? The same time it would take LCF to come out, and by that time, the LCF will probably be killed based on Lexus’s killing spree.

I think Lexus should crack the 500hp mark with their LS hybrid and another LS with over 600hp whether it’s called LSF or LS600. The hybrid would be the crazy luxury car similar to Maybach for S Class but without the longer wheel base.

Based on MagX, the TTV8 LS might as well be the LSF because how I understand it, the TTV8 is the for sure thing and the 600h is the speculation.
I really wish to see a LCF, LSF, and LQF? on the market at the same time, even if for just one generation.
If the LS FCV is dead, then I have high hope that a GS “successor” will become the Lexus FCV based on the Murai.
 
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ssun30

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My ideal LS lineup would be something like (with all global markets considered):

LS 450h+: (maybe 2.4L turbo) 4 cylinder + PHEV with 350hp/390lb-ft (not for USA)
LS 450: TT V6 as-is, base price drops to ~$70k base USD
LS 600h: 3.5L TT V6 + next gen hybrid with 450hp/500lb-ft, from $85k USD
LS 600: TT V8 with 550hp, 580lb-ft, from $95k USD
That's pretty much on point. The 450h doesn't really need to be PHV though since current batteries will have difficulty propelling a car this heavy in pure-EV mode, unless they 'cheat' and only allow blended/EV-auto mode like the 7-series/S-class/A8L PHVs. Also makes it cheaper for ChDM. IMO the 2.4T LS is just an answer to the very popular 730Li in ChDM, and a future four-cylinder A8L as well. The S90L and CT6 also use 2.0T engines but these two aren't direct competitors to the LS.

I would really love to see a 'LS600e' with LF-30 battery (110kWh with 400kW/536hp) considering this technology is readily available in 2019.

A thought that crossed my mind this morning: Might the 4-cylinder powertrain for 5LS be a longitudinal application of the RAV4 Prime / upcoming Lexus NX 450h+ power plant? In other words, a plug-in hybrid version of the A25A-FXS 2.5-liter 4-cylinder naturally aspirated engine that (in the RAV4 Prime) produces 302 hp? Thus, an LS 450h+?
Unlikely, the A25A-FXS is insufficient to propel this car. A slightly long gradient will drain the battery and the car is basically powerless at that point. It needs a bigger ICE.
 
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They've pulled back the headlights. I like it.
Full size photo:

EDIT: I am sort of getting... GS vibes. Look at the 3/4 profile of the headlight with the front bumper. Reminds me of the GS F. Also the headlight design is going the LS+ route a bit.
Actually based on the Google translate of the MagX article, there is one sentence that Krew did not translate :

" while direct 4 gasoline vehicles, which are not in the competition, will also be lined up for downsizing. It may be aimed to fill the position of the Lexus GS that disappears from the lineup this summer. "

Could it be that after cancelling the 5GS project and diverting it to the 2nd generation Mirai, Lexus is spreading out the development costs of the 4LS by introducing a Short Wheel Base ( and hence lighter and more nimble), 4 door Grand Coupe version of the LS and rebranding it as the re-imagined GS?????

Makes sense in terms of profit margins and getting the most bang for your buck out of the already sunk costs of 4LS R + D.

So SWB LS Grancoupe as :

Mainstream options:
GS300/350 (2.5LTT 4 cylinder turbo),
GS500h(3.5L multistage hybrid from LS500h/LC500h),
GS500(3.5LV6TT) and

F Variant:
GSF (5LV8TT, shared V8 with the upcoming LS600h which will use the NA V8 version).
 

Yuan

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I
That's pretty much on point. The 450h doesn't really need to be PHV though since current batteries will have difficulty propelling a car this heavy in pure-EV mode, unless they 'cheat' and only allow blended/EV-auto mode like the 7-series/S-class/A8L PHVs. Also makes it cheaper for ChDM. IMO the 2.4T LS is just an answer to the very popular 730Li in ChDM, and a future four-cylinder A8L as well. The S90L and CT6 also use 2.0T engines but these two aren't direct competitors to the LS.

I would really love to see a 'LS600e' with LF-30 battery (110kWh with 400kW/536hp) considering this technology is readily available in 2019.


Unlikely, the A25A-FXS is insufficient to propel this car. A slightly long gradient will drain the battery and the car is basically powerless at that point. It needs a bigger ICE.
I don’t think what’s needed or not matters for the LS, the LS should have the best technology TMC has, regardless if the application is needed or not. Or else Tesla never needed to constantly updating their BEV with faster 0-60c nor does Lexus needs to be reliable, nor if the LS could hold champagne glass on its hood while the engine is on.
 

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IS is not Lexus' entry level car. UX and NX are, probably 'CX' (Yaris Cross) if they decide to. IS can replace both IS and GS. LS was made with one wheel base only for that purpose. I hope they the facelift adds proper individual rear seats without the middle jumper seat.
 

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I find it weird if the only Lexus F vehicle be the LCF coming out in 2022. The RCF will most likely be killed by then, with no ISF and GSF.

Even if both GSF and RCF still exist by then, they would be 6 years old. Even if the LF1/LQ do come out in 2022, the F will probably come out who know? 5 years after? The same time it would take LCF to come out, and by that time, the LCF will probably be killed based on Lexus’s killing spree.

I think Lexus should crack the 500hp mark with their LS hybrid and another LS with over 600hp whether it’s called LSF or LS600. The hybrid would be the crazy luxury car similar to Maybach for S Class but without the longer wheel base.

Based on MagX, the TTV8 LS might as well be the LSF because how I understand it, the TTV8 is the for sure thing and the 600h is the speculation.
I really wish to see a LCF, LSF, and LQF? on the market at the same time, even if for just one generation.
If the LS FCV is dead, then I have high hope that a GS “successor” will become the Lexus FCV based on the Murai.
I don't personally know how much longer "F" will live on - it was born at a time when Lexus and the automotive industry were both very different. F started as a great idea and had lots of promise, but I think it's safe to say that has not been delivered upon. Losing the GS, the market switch to CUVs and a future that is probably based in FWD platforms make F seem like another project with good intentions and poor execution.

Of course, it could become something like Audi's "S" which is a tweener brand, but even then, we haven't seen any sort of hardware that will allow Toyota to bring FWD platforms to that level of performance.

LC/LS sales have been very low... even harder to justify F packaging. Plus, I have personally lost faith that the "twin turbo V8 with 625+hp" is ever going to come after 13 years of rumors.
 

Ian Schmidt

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I don't personally know how much longer "F" will live on - it was born at a time when Lexus and the automotive industry were both very different. F started as a great idea and had lots of promise, but I think it's safe to say that has not been delivered upon. Losing the GS, the market switch to CUVs and a future that is probably based in FWD platforms make F seem like another project with good intentions and poor execution.
I'd settle for F being as good as GR is looking on the Toyota side, although obviously F would be lower volume which is exactly the problem.
 

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The problem is treating the F program like it's another standard options package. They need to treat it like marketing.
 

TurboLag

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I don't personally know how much longer "F" will live on - it was born at a time when Lexus and the automotive industry were both very different. F started as a great idea and had lots of promise, but I think it's safe to say that has not been delivered upon. Losing the GS, the market switch to CUVs and a future that is probably based in FWD platforms make F seem like another project with good intentions and poor execution.

Of course, it could become something like Audi's "S" which is a tweener brand, but even then, we haven't seen any sort of hardware that will allow Toyota to bring FWD platforms to that level of performance.

LC/LS sales have been very low... even harder to justify F packaging. Plus, I have personally lost faith that the "twin turbo V8 with 625+hp" is ever going to come after 13 years of rumors.
The IS-F is probably coming back withe next year third face-lift
 

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Conflicts with No V8s on cars under $90k, unless they are going to make the IS500 a $90k car with a detuned V8 that's already not on par with competitors?

Who knows, maybe they want to give the current V8 one last hurrah, use it as a more "standard" engine (see LC 500 with the V8), and then transition to more BEVs.
 

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what are you even talking about anymore. You know about LC-F and LS-F and 600hp+ powertrain.

I dont get it.

blah
We have all heard about it for 13 years. Where is it?

We heard about 5GS too, then we know how that went.

13 years of rumors and I am seriously doubting that it will become viable at this point. Time to stop believing rumors and seeing reality, IMO.

I’m happy/hoping to be wrong.
 

ssun30

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The F-line won't live unless they have a solid plan to switch to electrified powertrains by 2023. I couldn't care less how many LS-F/LC-F they sell because I know they will be gigantic commercial failures from Day 1.

Electrification = democratization of power. 500hp is now the starting point for $40k vehicles in ChDM and I expect high power electrified powertrain to proliferate globally in the next two years. A 670hp ICEV has no place in 2022.
 

mikeavelli

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Lexus is by far the hybrid luxury leader so I am hoping if this rumor of a V-8 hybrid LS 600 is true, that is really is something special. I mean 0-60 in 4 seconds flat getting 30 MPG. Something showing technological advancement and superiority. That likely would require a new engine, not sure how much more magic they can get from the current 5.0.

Also will this be a performance hybrid or more in the vein of the current LS 500h past LS 600? I would really love to see a F-Sport version come to the USA and not just the base look.

I think only the Panamera Turbo S E hybrid couples a V-8 flagship sedan with hybrid power. I think the rest of the Germans mix their hybrids with a 6 or 4 cylinder.

The facelift is needed. The ES/LS look too similar up front and the LS styling might have went to far for most people. Its crazy to think arguably the most styled car in this class is a LS.


Conflicts with No V8s on cars under $90k, unless they are going to make the IS500 a $90k car with a detuned V8 that's already not on par with competitors?

Who knows, maybe they want to give the current V8 one last hurrah, use it as a more "standard" engine (see LC 500 with the V8), and then transition to more BEVs.
Whats crazy is a C63 S and M3 with options are 90-105k cars now. I just can't see Lexus having an IS cost that much. I am under the impression that F might be LS/LQ/LC/LX cars only going forward. That is my guess at this point.
 
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