2020 Toyota Yaris (International Markets)

F1 Silver Arrows

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@F1 Silver Arrows , a lot of money doesn't translate in victories.... Just look to Toyota's F1 effort...

I don't know how, but Akio really managed to turn the biggest car brand upside down... Toyota started to excel in everything, just look:
-> Motosport wins WEC/WRC/DAKAR;
-> Great looking cars like the Corolla/Camry/Yaris
-> Managed to bring excitement to Lexus with RCF/LFA/LC/ISF/GSF
-> They just give a gigantic leap forward technology wise (the best thermal efficiency engines, massively improved hybrid powertrain)
-> Two purpose built sports coupe (GT86/Supra)
....

All of this in what, 10 years?
You're not making sense here.

I've studied Toyota's F1 effort down to the atom, and you just said something like "the sky is blue", and in some respect, you're wide of the mark and it's massively broad and imprecise. Not trying to be a d*ck here, but you haven't bothered to go any deeper. Toyota didn't just "fail" after spending a lot of money. It's nothing like that. I suggest you to do some research, however if you want, I'll explain the reason why Toyota actually failed in F1, and it's quite complicated.

Your list doesn't make any sense either. If Akio did all those great things how did he make it upside down? I'm not getting your drift. Do you mean he turned everything 180 degrees?

Tanak might have believed his dominating pace this year is mainly from his driving not the car, which could be partially true. However the consensus among people is that the top 3 are evenly matched and whoever gets the best car (and luck) wins. We will only know next year when he is pitted against Neuville. I don't blame Tanak for going for the money, plus it's always an extra honor for a driver to win multiple championships in different cars to prove they earned them from better driving.

Makinen might wanted to save a few millions but it may backfire in the end. If he ended up having to scramble a deal with Ogier he would have to pay much more (don't know how much Ogier's Red Bull sponsor money could offset). There is no way Toyota would allow Makinen to only have an unproven Rovanpera as the title contender.

The only question remaining is whether Ogier has a performance clause with Citroen which allows him to leave if the car underperforms. I know Red Bull definitely doesn't want their logo on an uncompetitive car. Seeing how Ogier almost won the championship in a car he called 'undrivable', I'm pretty sure Ogier could win another driver's title for Toyota (which I personally don't want to see). He is still the master of damage control for maximizing points when the rally doesn't go his way.
The thing is Tanak is massively talented and him/Toyota were such a delicious combination. I just don't understand why he left. Hyundai is nowhere near the level of Toyota and will never reach their level. I'll make a few F1 references, but it's like Danny Ricc to Renault (but they're on the trajectory to become a top team), Michael Schumacher with Ferrari (where they grew to become champions many times in a row and was one of the most legendary time spans of all time), and Lewis Hamilton and Mercedes (where they are dominating the entire grid and wiping everyone clean, beating the streak that Michael and Ferrari set in the early 2000's though with the help of many Mercedes personnel, Toto Wolff, Niki Lauda, Norbert Haug, and obviously Michael Schumacher and Nico Rosberg).

I don't see wtf Tanak is doing here though. Hyundai is desperate and nowhere as good, and won't be for a while, so that's gone, and you leave the team that made you champions? I know it sounds hypocritical that some other drivers have done that, but this time it just seems SUPER suspicious and really puts me off. It's going to be an all-out war against Neuville and Toyota will just slide by and win. Hyundai can't afford to do this and they blew an ass-load of money on Tanak as well. Note, I was a massive fan of the guy and I loved him a lot, but this move seems a bit odd for so many reasons. I doubt that Mäkinen and the Toyota team would be that greedy in terms of money, though again, this is Toyota we're talking about.

I've heard some people wanting Toyota to call up Rovanpera but I don't know much about him (I follow WRC and junior series but not to a tee as much as I hate to say it). I wouldn't be surprised if some Japanese drivers take the spot because some are shadowing under the Toyota team.

I'm sick of the "Sebastien" dominance as well but to stick it to Tanak and Hyundai for trying to be smartasses I would be thrilled if Toyota and Ogier team up and wipe the floor with them. I've heard that next season may very well be his last, so it would make sense to make the jump from the poor-performing Citroën to Toyota.

Btw, congrats on having exactly 1k likes than comments.

1227/2227

I know it's dumb to point it out but I thought the numbers were cool so I thought it was cool to mention it lol. I have to ruin it because your response is good.
 
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Will1991

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You're not making sense here.

I've studied Toyota's F1 effort down to the atom, and you just said something like "the sky is blue", and in some respect, you're wide of the mark and it's massively broad and imprecise. Not trying to be a d*ck here, but you haven't bothered to go any deeper. Toyota didn't just "fail" after spending a lot of money. It's nothing like that. I suggest you to do some research, however if you want, I'll explain the reason why Toyota actually failed in F1, and it's quite complicated.

Your list doesn't make any sense either. If Akio did all those great things how did he make it upside down? I'm not getting your drift. Do you mean he turned everything 180 degrees?
At the time I was only starting to fall in love with cars, and specially Toyota, so it's true I didn't go very deep because at the time it didn't pushed me as strongly as it now does and I don't recall a lot. This being said, despite Toyota's budget they didn't won any race, they didn't won any drivers championship or any constructors championship... Not even a 1000hp V10 engine help them... The best result was 4th! Can't say I miss those days from Toyota Motorsport history... At the end of the day, wining is what matter to those who love the brand and take the time to watch them race.

The list comes from what Toyota managed with him "at the wheel", I mean, we can buy a Prius with a carbon fiber boot, a Corolla with intricate shapes, an LC which for me is art on wheels... I know he didn't did everything alone but they did came a long way from the times were easy manufacturing and big profits were above all... We can expect a good performance regarding motorsports... Of course, he didn't made it alone, but it should have been quite a fight.
 

F1 Silver Arrows

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At the time I was only starting to fall in love with cars, and specially Toyota, so it's true I didn't go very deep because at the time it didn't pushed me as strongly as it now does and I don't recall a lot. This being said, despite Toyota's budget they didn't won any race, they didn't won any drivers championship or any constructors championship... Not even a 1000hp V10 engine help them... The best result was 4th! Can't say I miss those days from Toyota Motorsport history... At the end of the day, wining is what matter to those who love the brand and take the time to watch them race.

The list comes from what Toyota managed with him "at the wheel", I mean, we can buy a Prius with a carbon fiber boot, a Corolla with intricate shapes, an LC which for me is art on wheels... I know he didn't did everything alone but they did came a long way from the times were easy manufacturing and big profits were above all... We can expect a good performance regarding motorsports... Of course, he didn't made it alone, but it should have been quite a fight.
Ah. I'm getting your drift.

4th is actually pretty good when you look at their competition. And like I said, it is not clean cut like that. There is a very complex reason why they failed.

****** COPIED FROM ANOTHER USER IN REDDIT, THIS REDDITOR EXACTLY SUMMARIZED WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG ******
This guy basically sounded like me. It's almost like I was the one who wrote that exact response but it wasn't. Read this. It'll bring you up to speed on why Toyota failed. Beautiful analysis. Everyone needs to read this. Thank you F1_Geek.


The reason why Toyota failed was because of terrible leadership. They had a bullshit hierarchy system that prevented them from progressing and doing better. I remember when Toyota's budget dominated F1 (was something around a billion dollars), they had one of the most reliable and the quickest engines, had a great chassis balance (especially in the 2005, 2006, 2008 and 2009 car). Remember, even with leadership being a total mess, they were so close to winning so many times, but poor luck prevented them from progressing. Imagine if political matters were better at Toyota, just imagine how they would have been successful in F1.

The reason why they crashed and burned was because of that shitty tradition of a hierarchy system from team the highest team personnel, all the way down to the mechanics. There was no mutualism and respect between the team personnel and with key engineers in the team. Remember the incident with Mike Gascoyne? Yeah. That's why they were in the shitter. That was a main issue, but also the little things that irked Toyota that shouldn't have been a problem because "it went against their ways". They were the absolute worst team when it came to being the best in leadership and progressing the team for the better (something Ferrari, McLaren and Renault were good at that time). Everything (in terms of decisions, engineering ideas, progression to be better) had to go to a board to be approved (because hierarchy and tradition) and all of that official bullshit that isn't necessary in a F1 team. It slowed their progression down HARD.

But other than that? They were the fucking best in engineering prowess. Almost unbeatable. And those 4 years I mentioned previously were the shining light that Toyota had. I swear to you and this is no bullshit, those 4 years could have been world championship winning years for the WDC and WCC. Their cars were solid in those years and their drivers were really fucking good. It was only poor leadership that let them down. As a result, their poor results (haha no pun intended) were blamed by the economy. That was BMW's rightful excuse, but not Toyota. They are the most powerful car company in the world by a massive margin. Economy shouldn't have made a dent in their coffers because of their wise decision making in their automotive industry.

Thank god they stopped that crap in the WEC and the WRC. What's happened since? Oh right. Royally dominating their respective series like Toyota racing teams always did (If you're going to reference 2016 and 2017 Le Mans or the overall WEC season, think of it as poor luck like Raikkonen's 2005 season or Alonso's 2012 season. We all knew the Toyotas were the best in 2014, 2016, and 2017).

If they have the gravitas to return, they WILL return. They're rediscovering what they used to be good at doing from the good old days, and that was building fun to drive and sporty cars. Having Formula 1 is the perfect platform to help them shine as they will be in what I like to call the big trinity of motorsports (not discounting series like IndyCar and others) WEC, WRC and if they do join, Formula 1. The Toyota that we all loved before is coming back from the ashes. Just hope and pray they come back to F1 because a presence like Toyota is what F1 needs the most. It will bring so many fans and a much wider viewerbase as well. Don't forget. No current team in F1 can even come CLOSE to the expertise Toyota have with hybrid engines. Which is why (if you guys remember) there was a rumour that Lexus would make an entrance (but that turned out to be an April fool's joke) to F1 in 2014, but it was very believable considering what they're capable of with the hybrid powertrains.

****** END ******
 

ssun30

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Hmmm I never knew they had good engine and chassis back then...

Anyway this thread needs to stay on topic. Let's just chill until Rally Australia.
 

F1 Silver Arrows

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Hmmm I never knew they had good engine and chassis back then...

Anyway this thread needs to stay on topic. Let's just chill until Rally Australia.
They were pretty solid. While a lot of people would talk about McLaren and Ferrari, the atmosphere was like "don't count out the Toyotas either". They just screwed up as a team.
 

spwolf

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They were pretty solid. While a lot of people would talk about McLaren and Ferrari, the atmosphere was like "don't count out the Toyotas either". They just screwed up as a team.
lets be realistic, they were mediocre, and yes, it has to do with leadership.

Why do you think they have forgone TMG and picked Tommi Mäkinen to lead the team?
 

F1 Silver Arrows

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lets be realistic, they were mediocre, and yes, it has to do with leadership.

Why do you think they have forgone TMG and picked Tommi Mäkinen to lead the team?
Well if you really followed F1, not really. But ok. Watch their qualifying and race performances. It was solid.

Anyways, Tommi has been a great addition to TGR WRC.
 

spwolf

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Well if you really followed F1, not really. But ok. Watch their qualifying and race performances. It was solid.

Anyways, Tommi has been a great addition to TGR WRC.
they had one of the biggest budgets and their best position was 4th in 2005.

I very much followed Toyota in F1, still have a lot of gear from them... However their performance in the end was mediocre.

This is why they didnt give WRC team to TMG as expected but hired outside help to manage the team and car. Throughout the years, TMG has proven that they dont have what it takes to have a winning team.
 

F1 Silver Arrows

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they had one of the biggest budgets and their best position was 4th in 2005.

I very much followed Toyota in F1, still have a lot of gear from them... However their performance in the end was mediocre.

This is why they didnt give WRC team to TMG as expected but hired outside help to manage the team and car. Throughout the years, TMG has proven that they dont have what it takes to have a winning team.
See. There you go again. If you read my responses then you'd know I'm criticizing their leadership. Their engineering however were solid. Read the post I quoted.
 

spwolf

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See. There you go again. If you read my responses then you'd know I'm criticizing their leadership. Their engineering however were solid. Read the post I quoted.
they had one pole position? I dont see what made their performance so great, I just remember media articles about big expectations and then after few races things fall apart.

Dont get mad at me, but performance to be top dogs in F1 was never there. WEC also has had its share of issues too.
 

flexus

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lets be realistic, they were mediocre, and yes, it has to do with leadership.

Why do you think they have forgone TMG and picked Tommi Mäkinen to lead the team?
I'm very greatful that you used letter Ä.
 

ssun30

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Well Rally Australia just got cancelled so where are they gonna launch the GR-4?

Also the cancellation means they lost the chance to fight for the manufacturer's title. Well congratulations to Hyundai for finally winning that after twenty years. Employed some 'interesting' tactics and poured money just to get outdeveloped, but winning is winning I guess.
 

F1 Silver Arrows

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they had one pole position? I dont see what made their performance so great, I just remember media articles about big expectations and then after few races things fall apart.

Dont get mad at me, but performance to be top dogs in F1 was never there. WEC also has had its share of issues too.
Blame the leaders that they didn't do much to make the team better. They had potential to be world champions let alone race winners.
 
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