12th Generation E120 Toyota Corolla Thread (Hatch, Sedan, Cross, GR)

qtb007

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ehhh where can find that test dyno video or article....? And have another question that test is using CVT version Corolla 1.5?
My guess is that it is 78kW rather than HP. That would be much more in line with the quoted numbers.
 

larryren

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My guess is that it is 78kW rather than HP. That would be much more in line with the quoted numbers.
I also check the E110 Series using 5A-FE spec, it have different output from 69-77kW (94-105 PS). If it true the M15 less power than 5A, that will be much weird....

Also last two week some unknown Chinese "Reviewer" put ES200 on dyno and said M20 with K120 CVT only got 107PS on wheel power output. It make lot of network comment said "Toyota are cheating". So this is why I need to find out that 1.5 Corolla's test....
 
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Seems like a decent engine in Yaris, here tested by random dude 0-100kmh in 10.8s:

People are also commenting they got under 10s and good consumption.

For Europe, this is very fast Yaris, lol. We used to have 1.0l and 1.3l options that were way slower than this.

Ah, Joe Black. Love his videos.
 

ssun30

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Their inflexible engine development and refusal to adopt forced induction really hurts them in the lower end of the market, especially in emerging markets where displacement taxes are very common. This basically gives competitors free reign in the 1000-1500cc range and they have to compete with less powerful and less efficient 1500-2000cc engines with higher taxes. They don't have any modern engine design in that displacement range, and I know for a fact TMC China management was very disappointed when the 1.4T "9NR-FTS" got cancelled. That engine would fit much better in a range of products like Corolla, Corolla LWB, Corolla Cross, C-HR, base Camry etc. basically 30% of their total sales. Instead, they have to either use an underpowered M15 or an oversized M20. In the most extreme case, they have to use the 2.7L 2TR when most of the competitors have moved to 1.5T. 80% larger displacement means a lot of extra cost for buyers and the extra reliability just isn't worth it.

It seems Toyota just isn't concerned with this at all, and just lets Daihatsu and Suzuki fill those gaps for them. But it means if you want a reasonably powerful small car at reasonable price, Toyota just isn't the brand to go for.
 
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ssun30

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I also check the E110 Series using 5A-FE spec, it have different output from 69-77kW (94-105 PS). If it true the M15 less power than 5A, that will be much weird....

Also last two week some unknown Chinese "Reviewer" put ES200 on dyno and said M20 with K120 CVT only got 107PS on wheel power output. It make lot of network comment said "Toyota are cheating". So this is why I need to find out that 1.5 Corolla's test....
Ummm it's the same tester who tested ES200 to 107PS. What's strange is in his tests Honda vehicles achieved much lower losses on the dyno. I know that tester has some anti-Japan agenda but it doesn't explain Honda's more convincing figures.

Either the new 2-stage CVT has really high losses or it's a problem with the setup. The only way to find out validity of his tests is to test the manual versions as well.
Screenshot_20220711-161301.png
 

larryren

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Ummm it's the same tester who tested ES200 to 107PS. What's strange is in his tests Honda vehicles achieved much lower losses on the dyno. I know that tester has some anti-Japan agenda but it doesn't explain Honda's more convincing figures.

Either the new 2-stage CVT has really high losses or it's a problem with the setup. The only way to find out validity of his tests is to test the manual versions as well.
View attachment 6094
HAAA! IT him.....
Here some personal view. Another tuning brand in China call "M-Force" have been use "axle dyno"
(directly translated, pls let me know correct name in English)

Tested the M20 hi-tuned (178PS/210Nm on official website) in ChDM Avalon, the stock result is 159PS and 202Nm. If purely numerical calculation it also have 89% power achievement rate and 96% torque achievement rate
So I have big doubt for this guy data.....
Also this guys have using old 6AT+6AR's 5th gen ES to test "0-100 accelerate" for proveing M20+K120 facelift version result. Some one blame him just have blacklist the criticize.😪 Including some car company engineer blame CVT can't easily take accurate data...
 

carguy420

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Their inflexible engine development and refusal to adopt forced induction really hurts them in the lower end of the market, especially in emerging markets where displacement taxes are very common. This basically gives competitors free reign in the 1000-1500cc range and they have to compete with less powerful and less efficient 1500-2000cc engines with higher taxes. They don't have any modern engine design in that displacement range, and I know for a fact TMC China management was very disappointed when the 1.4T "9NR-FTS" got cancelled. That engine would fit much better in a range of products like Corolla, Corolla LWB, Corolla Cross, C-HR, base Camry etc. basically 30% of their total sales. Instead, they have to either use an underpowered M15 or an oversized M20. In the most extreme case, they have to use the 2.7L 2TR when most of the competitors have moved to 1.5T. 80% larger displacement means a lot of extra cost for buyers and the extra reliability just isn't worth it.

It seems Toyota just isn't concerned with this at all, and just lets Daihatsu and Suzuki fill those gaps for them. But it means if you want a reasonably powerful small car at reasonable price, Toyota just isn't the brand to go for.
That's why a while ago I asked if there will be a turbocharged version of the M15A lol.
 

carguy420

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Seems like a decent engine in Yaris, here tested by random dude 0-100kmh in 10.8s:

People are also commenting they got under 10s and good consumption.

For Europe, this is very fast Yaris, lol. We used to have 1.0l and 1.3l options that were way slower than this.
I guess you forgot about the Yaris T-sport, it has just 106PS yet can do 0-100kmh in 9 seconds, 5 speed manual transmission only.
 

spwolf

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I guess you forgot about the Yaris T-sport, it has just 106PS yet can do 0-100kmh in 9 seconds, 5 speed manual transmission only.

Actually, 2rd gen TSport had 1.8t 1zz-fe engine with 140hp, i think same as in MR2. My brother had one and I had the same engine in MR2 before i turbo'd it.

But of course, very small percentage of buyers got that, most people had 1.3l and quite few here had 1.0l which was super, super slow.

Compared to both, new 1.5l is peppy for European small car and also really fuel efficient.
 

carguy420

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Actually, 2rd gen TSport had 1.8t 1zz-fe engine with 140hp, i think same as in MR2. My brother had one and I had the same engine in MR2 before i turbo'd it.

But of course, very small percentage of buyers got that, most people had 1.3l and quite few here had 1.0l which was super, super slow.

Compared to both, new 1.5l is peppy for European small car and also really fuel efficient.
Yeah, 1.0l is painfully slow, the 1.3l is barely ok, in certain markets the 1.5l is the standard engine for the 2nd gen Yaris, I guess different markets have different priorities and expectations.
 

Levi

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If Toyota joins into this fake pick-up truck fad I'm going to flip. Wtf is even going on in the US?
"fake pick-up trucks" are a thing in poorer countries, and they have their uses/purposes, they are first of foremost cheap cars based on older/old platforms. what is going in the US are however not the same kind of fake trucks, they are faker than fake.
 

Sulu

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If Toyota joins into this fake pick-up truck fad I'm going to flip. Wtf is even going on in the US?
Americans -- and to a lesser extent, Canadians -- are obsessed with *trucks*. The best-selling consumer vehicle is a pickup truck, which outsells even the Honda Civic. Not that long ago, crew cab (4-door) pickup trucks were about as common as unicorns; now crew cabs (with full leather interiors) seem to be only model sold. Light trucks (which include "sport utility vehicles" in both body-on-frame and unibody models) have crowded out cars from the market, explaining why GM and Ford no longer sell cars / sedans here (with the exception of the Mustang and Camaro). (OK, Cadillac also sells sedans but they are as common as unicorns.)

If an automaker wants to sell a car here, it has to be a lifted model (crossover), which, I guess, is why the Avalon's replacement has to be a Crown Crossover.

As gasoline prices get more expensive, we will start to see more alternate-fuel trucks and smaller, car-based pickup trucks -- like the Hyundai Santa Cruz and Ford Maverick (and maybe Corolla pickup?). Ford is selling the EV Lightning pickup truck; GM has the EV Silverado and Sierra pickup trucks on the way and also the Hummer EV. These are huge, heavy full-size pickup trucks.
 

NXracer

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Mav Sales seemed to have struck a cord? Hybrid, small pickup thats people want, who woulda thunk it?
 

Sulu

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Americans -- and to a lesser extent, Canadians -- are obsessed with *trucks*. The best-selling consumer vehicle is a pickup truck, which outsells even the Honda Civic. Not that long ago, crew cab (4-door) pickup trucks were about as common as unicorns; now crew cabs (with full leather interiors) seem to be only model sold. Light trucks (which include "sport utility vehicles" in both body-on-frame and unibody models) have crowded out cars from the market, explaining why GM and Ford no longer sell cars / sedans here (with the exception of the Mustang and Camaro). (OK, Cadillac also sells sedans but they are as common as unicorns.)

If an automaker wants to sell a car here, it has to be a lifted model (crossover), which, I guess, is why the Avalon's replacement has to be a Crown Crossover.

As gasoline prices get more expensive, we will start to see more alternate-fuel trucks and smaller, car-based pickup trucks -- like the Hyundai Santa Cruz and Ford Maverick (and maybe Corolla pickup?). Ford is selling the EV Lightning pickup truck; GM has the EV Silverado and Sierra pickup trucks on the way and also the Hummer EV. These are huge, heavy full-size pickup trucks.

Here in North America, we take personal-use trucks -- and large pickup trucks -- for granted, but it is different in Asia, where, in Malaysia, there is a push for a special licence for pickup truck drivers.
 

Gecko

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Toyota has played with this idea before, but seems to me like it might be better on the smaller GA-K (Rav4?) architecture vs. GA-C.

abat.jpg
 

Will1991

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I think it was a sign of the times and tastes…
Wasn’t that concept shown around the same time that a Escalade pickup was on sale?

It was supposed to be a big thing, but quickly went way.