Lexus June 2018 Sales Report

[krew]

krew

Lexus June 2018 Sales Report

LS sales remain strong, overall sales down 6.2%.

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[LDeleuran]

Thanks for posting this. I wonder if the dip in LC sales is caused by favoring other markets. I must ask my local dealer about how long the expected waiting list is... once I can afford one.

 

[mikeavelli]

Thanks for posting this. I wonder if the dip in LC sales is caused by favoring other markets. I must ask my local dealer about how long the expected waiting list is... once I can afford one.

I'm sure there is inventory but I do know the 2019's arrive late August/September. But summer months should be good months so it is a bit disappointing. The LS also wasn't really close to its 1,000 a month target so I expect some incentives coming big starting in August when they start having their big sales events...

 

[maiaramdan]

@mikeavelli
Yes the LS & LC are bit disappointing as both missed the planned targets in the summer month

But in the same time I am really happy regarding the GS, keep posting good numbers month after month

 

[Rhambler]

The 7 series almost outsold the LS and that 7 series has been out for what, three years versus an LS that has only been on the market for four months? The Panamera, which is almost two years old, likewise almost bested the LS.

LS: 789
BMW 7 series: 742
Porsche Panamera: 735

Who would bet money that the LS drops below the 7 series and Panamera by next month?

I couldn't find the CT6 numbers anywhere. Anyone know those figures? That Cadillac will be a strong seller once that new engine hits as well. The Genesis G90 is doing poorly. I guess the value angle isn't doing well or other factors are coming into play. The Audi A8 is in the toilet, but that's expected with a new model coming out in a few months. Mercedes leads of course, even though this model is old. A refresh is in the pipeline and that doesn't bode well for everyone.

 

[peterharvey]

Mercedes leads of course, even though this model is old. A refresh is in the pipeline and that doesn't bode well for everyone.

The current S Class is 5 years old, and running on a typical 7 year model cycle for this class of vehicle.
It's not just a refresh, but an "all new" S Class based on the new Mercedes MRA modular architecture has been caught testing, and is due for release in under two years - mid 2020.

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/mercedes/2020-mercedes-benz-s-class-ar180499.html

 

[maiaramdan]

The main defect in the LS is that
It does not have NA V6,
It does not have TT V8,
It does not have NA V8,
It does not have hybrid V8

That named variations
They need to have the 2 in NA plus those 4 all the 6 variations in every market selling LS

 

[ssun30]

Yes you can wish for all the engines on a small volume product and you will be guaranteed to not get them because it will be a financial disaster for Lexus. It is an extremely ridiculous thing to do. The regular S-Class has two options, and they work very well.

And four gasoline engines in non-US markets is definitely a no-go. Everywhere else is dominated by the 500h even when the cheaper 350 is available.

 

[maiaramdan]

Honestly non from my previous 4 will cost them a penny
*NA V6 = already exists in this same current LS
*NA V8 = already exists in the current LC
*TT V8 = already existed mill there's 2 of them either the previous LS 650 TMG mill or the rumored 4 L 620hp
*Hybrid V8 = already exists in the new Century and updated a little from the previous LS 600 h / LS 600 hL

So all in all if they get a meeting today they can have them tomorrow

The problem was never in the R&D, the problem is that there are sterile minds sitting thinking they know the market but they knew nothing, all the board need to be change, it's the same board that
1)never make the HPX see the light,
2)cost a lot of money on making the LFA a limited car with carbon fiber instead of having a full time Ferrari competitor in the stable,
3)killed the Venza just in the year the SUV started to boom,
4)choosing low materials in there most of cars even the new ES with its bottom places hard plastics,
5)not giving Avalon, ES, Camry a AWD even it existed until today in the old Sienna,
6)keeping the creme de la creme suvs and Trucks "Sequoia, Tundra, LC200, LX" without updating for nearly decade and half,
7)didn't raise the par and let Hyundai selling RWD sedans but they afraid about Lexus as if the competition will only take from Lexus "VAG is an idol",
8)letting A. Martin went to Benz and Lotus went to the Chinese even they were in some point the closest to get them,
9)not finished Mazda, Subaru and Suzuki cases even they are watching monthly how there selling numbers increases monthly, ironically they may get them if their selling numbers decreases as they did with Daihatsu,
10)the design team always needed to be replaced, if they already have any from super bland to childish, take a lot at the competitor all of them including the Japanese

Those at least 10 reasons from some of have a mini mini mini 1 over trillion from its share and I always love it and still do but something big need to happen

 

[mediumhot]

2)cost a lot of money on making the LFA a limited car with carbon fiber instead of having a full time Ferrari competitor in the stable,

I will give you this one. None of that CFRP workflow has ever streamed down the line to affordable production units.

 

[ssun30]

Honestly non from my previous 4 will cost them a penny
*NA V6 = already exists in this same current LS
*NA V8 = already exists in the current LC
*TT V8 = already existed mill there's 2 of them either the previous LS 650 TMG mill or the rumored 4 L 620hp
*Hybrid V8 = already exists in the new Century and updated a little from the previous LS 600 h / LS 600 hL

So all in all if they get a meeting today they can have them tomorrow

The problem was never in the R&D, the problem is that there are sterile minds sitting thinking they know the market but they knew nothing, all the board need to be changed, it's the same board that
1)never make the HPX see the light,
2)cost a lot of money on making the LFA a limited car with carbon fiber instead of having a full time Ferrari competitor in the stable,
3)killed the Venza just in the year the SUV started to boom,
4)choosing low materials in there most of cars even the new ES with its bottom places hard plastics,
5)not giving Avalon, ES, Camry a AWD even it existed until today in the old Sienna,
6)keeping the creme de la creme suvs and Trucks "Sequoia, Tundra, LC200, LX" without updating for nearly decade and half,
7)didn't raise the par and let Hyundai selling RWD sedans but they afraid about Lexus as if the competition will only take from Lexus "VAG is an idol",
8)letting A. Martin went to Benz and Lotus went to the Chinese even they were in some point the closest to get them,
9)not finished Mazda, Subaru and Suzuki cases even they are watching monthly how there selling numbers increases monthly, ironically they may get them if their selling numbers decreases as they did with Daihatsu,
10)the design team always needed to be replaced, if they already have any from super bland to childish, take a lot at the competitor all of them including the Japanese

Those at least 10 reasons from some of have a mini mini mini 1 over trillion from its share and I always love it and still do but something big need to happen

1) Integration of a powertrain with a vehicle is not free. Actually it's a very engineering-intensive work. Designing a chassis to accommodate so many powertrain combinations is very inefficient. All modern cars are designed to have as few engine options as possible. The logistic headaches are even worse in manufacturing, no matter how efficient TPS is.

2) All these problems you mentioned were very true (maybe except the LFA part, it is amazing despite the number of setbacks during development). In particular buying out Mazda and Subaru should definitely be on their to-do list before the two took off in USA. Even not counting the potential benefits from their technical know-how, the asset TMC can acquire alone is crucial in securing its future. The people responsible for these bad decisions were already purged by Akio Toyoda (in his own words 'a fight against the Old Guards'), but we won't see the immediate effect since there will always be considerable amount of inertia in execution with these mega corporations.

We shouldn't immediately question whether Lexus is heading in the wrong direction like a knee-jerk reaction. The suffering of Lexus sedans could be the result of what I call the 'Lost Generation' i.e. the first half of the 2010 where their sedan lineup did not receive meaningful updates. One thing they definitely mismanaged was the LS situation: the 'bean counters' couldn't justify a more thorough update for the 4.5LS and as a result the model faded into obscurity, forcing the 5LS to fight a very hard uphill battle. That shouldn't be as big a problem if the 5LS was released in time for 2016, but it ended up delayed by two years. The SUV boom hit at the right moment and any problem with their sedan lineup becomes even more exaggerated. It takes a few years for those negative decisions to fully take effect, and we shouldn't be surprised if their sedan situation is worse than ever. On the other hand, BMW's sedans got hit less hard by the SUV boom today because of what they did in the past, in particular the 'Golden Generation' which first took advantage of downsizing.

But it does not mean what they do now will not improve the situation (with a delay). The 5LS has all the correct ingredients for success: a refreshing look, competent powertrain lineup that fits the segment (especially considering the value), and unmatched interior quality. Who knows, the 5LS may enjoy a short period of success after 2019, before it gets inevitably destroyed by the LF-1.

 

[maiaramdan]

1) regarding the LFA if they want it to be carbon fiber as is why didn't make another one with it based on aluminum, in other words where is the LC-F why its so late to the game

2) regarding Subaru and Mazda I am afraid they keep delaying and miss the advantage of it as what happened with Daihatsu

In short I agree with you that the main 2 fatal mistakes are
1) cold blooded delaying as if they don't care
2) ironically they are really afraid to lose a penny so keeping everything to the minimum

Hope we see those 2 sins gone forever in the near future

 

[Rhambler]

BMW almost sold as many 5 series as all of Lexus’ sedans combined.

Their 4 series coupe outsold the RC 10 to 1, ouch.

 

[mikeavelli]

The 7 series almost outsold the LS and that 7 series has been out for what, three years versus an LS that has only been on the market for four months? The Panamera, which is almost two years old, likewise almost bested the LS.

LS: 789
BMW 7 series: 742
Porsche Panamera: 735

Who would bet money that the LS drops below the 7 series and Panamera by next month?

I couldn't find the CT6 numbers anywhere. Anyone know those figures? That Cadillac will be a strong seller once that new engine hits as well. The Genesis G90 is doing poorly. I guess the value angle isn't doing well or other factors are coming into play. The Audi A8 is in the toilet, but that's expected with a new model coming out in a few months. Mercedes leads of course, even though this model is old. A refresh is in the pipeline and that doesn't bode well for everyone.

Thats one month and they are giving away the 7 series. BMW never came close to hitting their targets. I've had a lot of conversations with them about the 7 since day one and they feel it should be doing much better.

Porsche is doing fantastic here.

BMW almost sold as many 5 series as all of Lexus’ sedans combined.

Their 4 series coupe outsold the RC 10 to 1, ouch.

The 5 is a big volume car it's always sold in higher numbers.

The 4 is a higher volume coupe with more variants including a 4 door and a crosstour version.

I'm not saying Lexus is doing good here but these are old arguments rehashed elsewhere.

 

[corradoMR2]

Not surprised on the slipping Lexus car sales and it pains me to say they are outgunned in performance, tech, and yes, interior materials/build quality where they once were untouchable. The dominance in reliability is also insufficient to convince the buyer for their hard-earned cash.

I hope the next IS is still in the plans and Lexus needs to not drag the current gen for 8 years like the 2IS as it is seriously outmatched in all categories! :scream: Lexus, please stick to a 6-year model cycle like most of the competition if you want to still compete. I want the next IS but not in MY 2022! :cold_sweat:

 

[peterharvey]

We shouldn't immediately question whether Lexus is heading in the wrong direction like a knee-jerk reaction. The suffering of Lexus sedans could be the result of what I call the 'Lost Generation' i.e. the first half of the 2010 where their sedan lineup did not receive meaningful updates. One thing they definitely mismanaged was the LS situation: the 'bean counters' couldn't justify a more thorough update for the 4.5LS and as a result the model faded into obscurity, forcing the 5LS to fight a very hard uphill battle. That shouldn't be as big a problem if the 5LS was released in time for 2016, but it ended up delayed by two years. The SUV boom hit at the right moment and any problem with their sedan lineup becomes even more exaggerated. It takes a few years for those negative decisions to fully take effect, and we shouldn't be surprised if their sedan situation is worse than ever. On the other hand, BMW's sedans got hit less hard by the SUV boom today because of what they did in the past, in particular the 'Golden Generation' which first took advantage of downsizing.

But it does not mean what they do now will not improve the situation (with a delay). The 5LS has all the correct ingredients for success: a refreshing look, competent powertrain lineup that fits the segment (especially considering the value), and unmatched interior quality. Who knows, the 5LS may enjoy a short period of success after 2019, before it gets inevitably destroyed by the LF-1.

I'm not entirely convinced that 5LS sold only 768 in June due to SUV purchases.
Because the current model S Class with its higher price tag debut with 1914, 1907 & 1857 sales in its initial months, and in its first full year, the current model S Class sold over 24,000 units USA - averaging over 2,000 units/month.
Even today, the S Class is 5 years old with 1569, 1369, 1627, 1535, 1169 & 1156 units sold so far this year.

Keep in mind that on debut, ALL previous generations of LS's including 1LS, 2LS, 3LS & 4LS's have ALWAYS outsold the more expensive Mercedes S Class.
The 5LS is the only LS in Lexus history on debut, to have ever undersold the Mercedes S Class sedans.

I saw a new 5LS the other day in person, and I suspect it's more a styling issue, and maybe a styling & front mid-engine issue than anything else.
The 7ES hasn't been released, yet the styling and public reception has been so good.
Unlike the 7ES, the 5LS on the otherhand didn't get off to as good a styling reception.

President Akio races his Maserati at the Nurburgring, and the Quattroporte has a front mid-engine with the front wheels a long way away from the front door, but there is proportionately a shorter front overhang.
On the other hand, the 5LS also has a front mid-engine with the front wheels a long way forward of the front door, but I find that the 5LS's front overhang is way too long for my tastes; with a front mid-engine layout, the front overhang should be shorter.
Also the 5LS ends up with a rather liftback like rear end, compared to the Quattroporte's more conventional trunk.

To a lesser extent, the front mid-engine layout also impacts on the 5LS's shorter cabin & interior space, compared to the old LS460L.
The 5LS is certainly a smaller interior, but I think the styling affects the car more than the interior space.

Look at the forthcoming 7ES.
President Akio's aim is to make no more boring cars.
Yet the well styled FWD 7ES doesn't need RWD, let alone a front mid-engine to succeed; why then must a 5LS have a front mid-engine to succeed?
Something that will ultimately impact on its styling, and its compromized cabin length.

The all new next generation Mercedes S Class is less than 2 years away, and I'm not convinced that it will only sell 789 units in its initial months.
I'm shocked that the 5LS cannot hold the Lexus tradition of outselling S Classes on debut.

I believe that it is very wrong to style and design a car poorly, watch sales plummet, and then axe the sedan altogether - citing that sedan sales are falling due to SUV sales.

Why not accept that the sedan wasn't well styled, or not as well designed - rather than blaming it on SUV sales?
Sadly, I see people blaming my 4GS 2012 poor sales falling to 22k units [from 3GS's 33.5k] due to SUV's, when back in 2012/13, the BMW 5 Series maintained its previous annual peak sales 57k/year peak, while in 2012, the E Class actually increased it previous 2002-09 Series peak sales of 59k/year to 2012 & 2013's 69k/year.
4GS sales didn't fall due to SUV's, because 5 Series maintained its 57k/year peak sales, while the E Class actually increased its peak sales to 69k units/year!

IMO, I thought that my 4GS didn't sell as well as my 3GS or even 2GS, because the 4GS was bit boxy with a rather bland rear end, bland dash, and perhaps the base model's suspension was too firmly sprung & damped, because the base model with luxury pack used exactly the same spring and damper part numbers - perhaps it would have been better if the base and the F Sport used different spring & damper part numbers for a more compliant ride on the base/luxury model.

I love the styling of the RX, and I can understand why it is currently America's biggest selling luxury motor vehicle with nearly 110k/year - despite my personal belief that the current RX uses too low a profile noisy tires, with damping that is too firm & tiring; scientifically, firm damping is more rebound control with a high frequency of vertical oscillations, as opposed to a floaty ride which is less rebound control with a lower frequency of vertical oscillations.
However, I am unconvinced of the forthcoming Lexus LF-1's styling.
My prediction is that the new very attractively styled 7ES will sell very well - and that's despite the fact that the new low center of gravity Camry is actually smaller inside than the outgoing 2011-17 model - despite manufacturers constantly quoting that their new model has a longer wheelbase and is more spacious inside!

I believe that styling is very important in sales threads & sales success....

 

[mikeavelli]

The Quattroporte was much worse received than the LS. The styling is awkward. It's been a sales disaster.

Could the new LS styling be too much for people? Absolutley. Lexus knew this going into it and took a huge risk here.

 

[ssun30]

Honestly I don't know if compromised cabin size really affects the sales of LS in USA. After all some on this forum say LS buyers in USA mainly drive the cars themselves, which is something I as an Asian could not understand due to cultural differences (seriously, if you buy a car of this size and level of luxury, why not have a chauffeur driving for you?). The LS has 4 inches less rear legroom than the S-Class despite having similar size and wheelbase. I certainly hate the fact that Lexus went for form over function with 5LS's design; sacrificing so much space is just unacceptable. If the LS flops in China after July, then the reason will certainly be insufficient cabin size.

As for FMR, it is definitely a right thing to do. With the FMR layout the 5LS has one of the best handling chassis in the class. The LS500 is FMR because it uses a short V6 engine so the actual impact of FMR is not that pronounced. I would say designing the engine bay to accommodate Inline-6 and V12 engines (which is what the MB and BMW did) sacrifices more cabin space than a V6 FMR. If there is an upcoming V8 LS, it will not be FMR.

The difference between regular FR and FMR is actually pretty big. The turn-in characteristics is way better without the engine hanging above the front axle. In fact, FMR is the most sporty driving layout due to its predictability. The best handling layout on paper is obviously RMR, but modern manufacturers tune RMR vehicles to have a significant amount of understeer to make them safe to drive.

 

[peterharvey]

I wouldn't worry too much about the Maserati Quattroporte.
I only brought it up because President Akio races his Maserati at the Nurburgring.
Many years ago, Akio was quoted as saying that he believed that European marques like Maserati have heritage due to their sports background, hence probably why Akio created the no more boring cars formula, with what he describes as wanting more inspired styling and more inspired dynamics.

The 5LS actually has much more in common with the Maserati Quattroporte and Jaguar XJ LWB, than it has in common with the Porsche Panamera.
The Panamera is 1/2 a size smaller than the other three.
Whereas the 5LS, XJ Long Wheelbase & Quattroporte are very similar in wheelbase and length.

Of the latter three, the Quattroporte has the most prominent front mid-engine, with the most cabin length compromize.
The 5LS and Jag XJ LWB have a very similar degree of front mid-engine mount.
Despite the dynamic front mid-engine mount, I think that the 5LS's cabin length and legroom is pretty good for a full size sedan.
The foot room is poor, and maybe the head room and shoulder room is a bit marginal.
The 5LS has only a shallowish 440 L trunk, while the Quattroporte has a 530 L trunk; for comparison, a Camry has a 520 L trunk in metric.
Overall, I'm not too bothered by the 5LS's size, nor the effect of interior size on sales.
If one is worried about interior size, then a conventional front engine RWD with a spacious cabin like the old 4LS is the best route.

I'm actually more worried about the 5LS's styling, as some posters describe as reminding them of a Nissan Infiniti from the rear quarter.

Nevermind the Quattroportes, Jag XJ's nor full size Infiniti Q45's [that was axed a while ago].
Over the past 30 years, one of the great feats of the past four generations of Lexus LS's was their ability on debut to outsell the pants off the Mercedes S Class...

 

[corradoMR2]

I

The Quattroporte was much worse received than the LS. The styling is awkward. It's been a sales disaster.

Could the new LS styling be too much for people? Absolutley. Lexus knew this going into it and took a huge risk here.

I saw my first one on the road the other day, driving beside it from one intersection to another and I was thoroughly impressed. It had the stance, grandeur, and presence of a flagship sedan and the Manganese Luster color was perfection for LS. This car is a standout and for this price, I don't want to blend in.