Chris Harris Slams Lexus F Performance Brand

[krew]

krew

In his latest editorial on Jalopnik, Chris Harris attacks the Lexus F performance brand and its apparent lack of focus.

View the original article post

 

[joe_my]

Who the hell does this guy think he is? Just because he has got some views for his videos on YouTube, it doesn't mean he is right and people at Lexus are wrong. If he thinks he's that great and noble, why doesn't he start his own company? I'd just tell him to go home, he's terribly drunk!

 

[mikeavelli]

Extremely disappointed in Chris Harris. I'm a huge fan of his work but this is a very short sighted view and seems just something to rile up jalopnik trolls and the rest of the interenet posters that hate Lexus.

I will elaborate more tomorrow.

 

[corradoMR2]

Reliability is equally important in this price range which is disappointing it's never factored in these types of reviews. In F1 and most major motorsports, reliability wins the race.

 

[CIF]

I'll be very frank krew. It's such a ridiculous article that I feel this should not even be front page stuff, as it's only driving more clicks for him and that infamous site. I feel the less attention that is given to this article, the better.

Reliability is equally important in this price range which is disappointing it's never factored in these types of reviews. In F1 and most major motorsports, reliability wins the race.

Yes, to a lot of people it is. However, unfortunately there is an equally large group of buyers in this class who don't care about reliability, or road manners. This group of buyers only care about paper specs and the badge.

 

[HKWIL]

He needs to understand the roots of Lexus and its products to see their vision. Over the past 10 years, how many successful lunches of new models where there? Numbers, what's getting more and more appealing to the luxury car market? Which brand looks in the rearview mirror and seeing Lexus tailgating real close? How long has the Lexus brand been arnd? And like this article has mentioned, how long ago did Lexus have their first high performance model? Not being able to see it, not understanding doesn't mean Tye brand has no vision.You need vision to see and have vision. I think Lexus is doing very well at this pace and Lexus is not far from a car that will crush some of today's top performing cars. Keep it up Lexus!

 

[Mohammed Taha]

Yes, to a lot of people it is. However, unfortunately there is an equally large group of buyers in this class who don't care about reliability, or road manners. This group of buyers only care about paper specs and the badge.

Yes, finally someone gets it. If Lexus cost more than a Mercedes Benz but had the same performance and was more reliable, everyone would go for the Lexus.

BMW have been making the M3 & M5 since 1985, and there have been AMG models of the modern-day C-Class & E-Class since 1988. By comparison, the first Lexus IS F was released in 2007. I bring this up not as an excuse but as a fact

As for you Krew, I'm sorry but that was an excuse. Honda is releasing a Civic Type R that produces over 300HP from a 2.0 Liter engine. You know what I'm waiting for? A Lexus that gets me excited. Forget the fancy ads, the body kits and the new color schemes, I want Lexus to do what they did with the LX, release a Supercharged version. An RC F supercharged. A GS F supercharged. That's what I want to see.

 

[mikeavelli]

Yes, finally someone gets it. If Lexus cost more than a Mercedes Benz but had the same performance and was more reliable, everyone would go for the Lexus.



As for you Krew, I'm sorry but that was an excuse. Honda is releasing a Civic Type R that produces over 300HP from a 2.0 Liter engine. You know what I'm waiting for? A Lexus that gets me excited. Forget the fancy ads, the body kits and the new color schemes, I want Lexus to do what they did with the LX, release a Supercharged version. An RC F supercharged. A GS F supercharged. That's what I want to see.

Getting excited about a fwd civic with 300hp a number Lexus had in 1998 keeps me quite flacid but to each his own.

Mike

 

[Mohammed Taha]

Getting excited about a fwd civic with 300hp a number Lexus had in 1998 keeps me quite flacid but to each his own.

Mike

If over 300HP from a 2.0 liter engine doesn't excite you then I'm not sure what does .... Lexus barely achieves that with a 3.5L engine.

 

[mikeavelli]

If over 300HP from a 2.0 liter engine doesn't excite you then I'm not sure what does .... Lexus barely achieves that with a 3.5L engine.

Honda and acura don't make a v-8, v-10 or anyting close to 400hp. So please don't go revving up the civic and ignore the other Lexus engines.

I'm sure the civic will be cool but with an awd 300+ hp Ford Focus coming its just not exciting to some people like how you love it.

 

[Mohammed Taha]

Honda and acura don't make a v-8, v-10 or anyting close to 400hp. So please don't go revving up the civic and ignore the other Lexus engines.

I'm sure the civic will be cool but with an awd 300+ hp Ford Focus coming its just not exciting to some people like how you love it.

No one said anything about loving the car, Honda or Acura

Acura NSX is coming though, and it will produce more than 400 HP from a V6 engine.

I think you've picked something out of what I said and put all your effort into that statement more than anything else I said. I'm not Chris Harris and you do not need to focus your anger at me.

To me, these are the facts:
Lexus vehicles are far more reliable than any other comparable luxury vehicle.
Lexus vehicles cost less than any other comparable luxury vehicle
Lexus has made significant breakthroughs in the past few years especially since the LFA
Lexus has also created some exciting new vehicles
There are possibly more positive points that I am missing out on that may come to mind later ...

What I was saying is that, some of those facts do not matter to some people. Lexus is not pushing to have its vehicles in movies. The Lexus brand is not trying to get posters of its vehicles on the walls of kids' bedrooms. Lexus is not producing cars that are just stupid fast and capable of killing you if you don't give it the respect it deserves. Lexus produced the LFA at a time when there was competition from almost every car manufacturer in the planet, so it was just another player not one of a few.

I expect a lot more from Lexus, a LOT. Saying Lexus should be given time, Lexus only started a few decades ago, Lexus has great resale value is only a bunch of excuses.

Lexus needs to carve their name into families like BMW and Mercedes has.

Let me tell you what people in the UAE think of Lexus. Bear in mind that this is just what people here think and not necessarily facts. Money will go to the dealership that produces the most exciting cars.
It's a Toyota. It's another luxury vehicle that's trying to play with the big boys but is not really one of them.
Their cars are light, fickle at high speeds and unsafe, I'd rather be in a Benz.
Nothing handles like a BMW.
You have to service them every 5,000 Kms rather than every 10,000 and 15,000. Yes, kilometers. Almost every other company service their cars every 10,000 - 15,000 kms. They just changed it to 10,000. Look for yourself. I'm not sure if Lexus has changed but I highly doubt it. I had a 2009 IS and until last year it used to be every 5,000.

I like Lexus and want to see them grow and dominate but they unfortunately are missing almost every opportunity to do that.

 

[Tragic Bronson]

Extremely disappointed in Chris Harris. I'm a huge fan of his work but this is a very short sighted view and seems just something to rile up jalopnik trolls and the rest of the interenet posters that hate Lexus.

I will elaborate more tomorrow.

Another "Lebowski moment"....perhaps Lexus owners need to troll Jalopnik and other blogs lol.

 

[Valkirk]

The only people who have 'got' the F brand are the normal people who have tested them, Lexus set out to create a car that a normal (read not highly skilled driver) could still drive fast.

I would love to see a test of some normal people doing back to back RC F / M4 drives and see the times. Lexus weren't aiming at building a car suitable for people who can already power slide their way round an entire circuit they were building it for the type of person who might take their car to a track once or twice a year and the equivalent skills that would give. A car that has a lower entry skill requirement to get the best out of the car, not the twitchy M4 that whilst in the hands of a professional is faster you really need to know what you're doing.

That said I do think the car is massively overweight - they must have been planning a convertible surely if they used the IS Convertible floor plan! And why did they still stick an active speaker for extra engine noise??

Personally the car that would be the true car to make people sit up and look would be taking that V8 and sticking in the current IS, MUCH lower weight and the 350 version has already been beating BMW etc. Would so love another ISF!

Anyway most interesting was the replies on Jalopnik, almost all defence and praise for Lexus - the truth on any car is listening to the people who buy them...

 

[Fhrae]

Read this article earlier today, but didn't realize it was from Chris Harris himself, until just now.

It is a dissapoint read, that's for sure. I haven't had the pleasure of trying either the M4 or the RC F myself, but I'm having a difficult time believing that the RC F performs so poorly.

 

[Levi]

Chris Harris is a LOSER. He lost all credibility. His arguments are troll-like. His is losing influence so has to bend to public ignorance in hope of getting back to the level he was. Sorry, but that is over for him. He better find a new job. His automotive ignorance and bias is beyond German-fanboy level.

 

[VeeEight]

Sounds like another Jeremy Clarkson. The American and European media has a very strong allegiance to BMW. The really honest first reviews of BMW M4 pointed out the difficulties of handling due to too much low end power, turbo lag eg during cornering and recovery, non-linear delivery and oversteer (from being too light?). Hence the need to be an expert driver (3% of all drivers?) to manage this. That's why Lexus stayed with the NA V8. Most also slam the weight of the RCF, but the extra weight actually provides a better balance. Also, the same reviewers are now praising the new MB C63 V8 (magnificent sound, response ...) with little or no mention about the weight, even tho' it is only a little lighter than the RCF! The MB chief engineer said CUSTOMERS still demand V8s. So these negative RCF reviews are very clear demonstrations of complete lack of objectivity and independence!

 

[mikeavelli]

No one said anything about loving the car, Honda or Acura

Acura NSX is coming though, and it will produce more than 400 HP from a V6 engine.

I think you've picked something out of what I said and put all your effort into that statement more than anything else I said. I'm not Chris Harris and you do not need to focus your anger at me.

I'm sorry but you stated your opinion and I reaponded. No one is angry. You are dissing Lexus who is the only Japanese brand on par and taking it to the German brands. It will take time just as they took time to build their respective performance brands. Your basis for excitement is a fwd super civic and a hypothetical NSX still not sold whereas Lexus IS selling exciting cars today.

Today will be tough for me to respons as I'll be taking a company 2015 S8 to be tuned for even more power. Now that is exciting and I know soon enough Lexus will have a LS F. I know Audi didn't bring or have a S8 here for sometime so if Lexus takes awhile to bring a competitor I understand. Mind you Audi doesn't make a true S63 or S65 competitor, nor BMW but I don't see Chris Harris or anyone bringing that up.

But hey let's slam Lexus and the F brand not even ten years young!

 

[GSCT]

Two comments:

I am amazed that this is all about Lexus performance. To me, this is wonderful as prior to the Gen 2 IS, I don't think "Lexus" and "performance" we're often used in the same discussion.

"F" and "F Sport" must be working. Sales are up and a large percentage of the IS, RC, NX and GS sales are F Sports.

 

[Mohammed Taha]

I'm sorry but you stated your opinion and I reaponded. No one is angry. You are dissing Lexus who is the only Japanese brand on par and taking it to the German brands. It will take time just as they took time to build their respective performance brands. Your basis for excitement is a fwd super civic and a hypothetical NSX still not sold whereas Lexus IS selling exciting cars today.

But hey let's slam Lexus and the F brand not even ten years young!

Well, you showed excitement for an LS F when there isn't even a hint of one, unless you know something none of us do.

I never dissed Lexus, I'm just annoyed by the fact that they can do something but are not. They showed that they can by building the LFA. Why did it stop there? I was extremely excited when I saw the IS F Sport and knew that Lexus was on the right track but then came the RS F and it disspointed me. The GS F is another excellent direction from Lexus. I just want them to do more. More cowbells please.

 

[mikeavelli]

Okay made some time early this morning. And this is the second writer and auto enthusiast I HIGHLY admire that has throw Lexus in the garbage can after putting it on fire and shooting and stabbing it. Clarkson was the first (who I still love and am still drained he got fired) and now Chris Harris who I followed around from magazine to magazine until he went to the troll haven of Jalopnik. Make no mistake about it, I think Chris Harris is amazing and I am a fan though I am very disappointed in this rather short sighted view on Lexus F. I will chalk it up to him hanging around Jalopnik and losing some brain cells in the process.

.... It is quite easy to just point the finger at Lexus and the "F" marque and insult it in the day and age where writers seem to write about today totally overlooking the past. They also seem to move goalposts more than some other forum Admins. So let's discuss this in detail:

First, I would think an enthusiast, ANY Enthusiast, would be very happy that the Lexus F marque is around. Who doesn't love high power RWD cars? Lexus out of nowhere has created a credible performance brand and are the only ones from Asia trying to compete. This is NO easy task considering the Germans have been the only force here for decades until maybe Caddy and the V brand and Jaguar and R which was launched before F.

So lets go back in time...and my post isn't at all to insult or bash the Germans. If it was not for them, there would be no Lexus and if they didn't have their performance brands, there would be no F. I highly HIGHLY respect what they have done even if I don't own one.

Audi
Currently sell some RS vehicles. Let's be crystal clear that their "S" brand does not compete with M and AMG. In the states we have RS5, RS7, R8. The rest of the cars are S cars. Before these cars were here we got the RS4. Well we don't get the new RS4. Before that, we got no RS cars. We got S cars. So basically until about ten years ago, we got no AMG/M competitors in the states. I don't recall any articles saying how confusing that is to an American. No, we just revere and love the cars and hope they make it over the pond, every last one of them. So in Europe it might be crystal clear but in the states, of its confusing.

BMW
Currently sell quite a bit of M cars, including SUVs which they scoffed at years ago saying it would never happen. They also said turbos would never happen but that happened too. In reviews outside of the M3/M4 they fare okay as they have gotten heavier and less involving. In the past they were BY FAR the pinnacle of high performance luxury sport cars. The E60 is the only sedan V-10 in recent memory. Before then the E39 M5 might be one of the greatest saloons of all time. The E34 before it was the class leader. The E46 was a marvel, the E36 we actually didn't get the high output engine but the 240hp one. I don't recall it getting blasted for that, instead it won every compare by a landslide. Note there is no mention of the other M cars since they just don't do that well in reviews though I would drive a M6 if I had 130k laying around because I just think its tits.

Oh, and they stared with a M1. I don't recall seeing a follow up. In over 30 years. I recall a concept a few years ago but I don't recall BMW getting blasted online for never having a new M1. I do recall seeing Honda get ripped for no NSX follow up, every month the last few years. Funny how that works.

Mercedes
AMG wasn't an official part of the company until I believe the late 80s early 90s. They had one car for about 6-7 years, the C36 then C43. I don't recall any articles blasting AMG for only having one car for that long. I do recall solid reviews for it and welcoming a car to fight the M3. I remember the E55 AMG which came in 1999 or so which always lost to the M5. I then recall the current AMG explosion where there are even AMG blenders. Then they have the black series cars which IMO are as desirable as it gets. The SLR was a full blown exotic, the SLS was a follow up though less exotic and the AMG GT is one of the best cars I have ever driven. AMG doesn't even have competitors from most of its German competition. I don't recall any articles blasting BMW or Audi for not competing with AMG at every place in the market.

Chris Harris doesn't seem to be confused about Jaguar F or Cadillac V, which are both also in their infancy. They wouldn't make as good troll bait I assure you.

So as you can see its taken DECADES for the Germans to get where they are, with varying results. They didn't suddenly have these vast expanded lineups. The AMG and RS marques also didn't fare that well to BMW M until recently.

Lexus
The LFA was supposed to be the launching pad for the F brand but the IS F came first as an approved skunkworks model. I remember it debuting in 2007 like many of you and was amazed Lexus would go such a route, to this day I still am. I remember driving it and being driven in it in Moroso at a Lexus track event, from 9-5. I remember not one IS F breaking down. The only issue out of all the cars was one tire blew, which is a tire blowing and not a mechanical failure. I remember initially in reviews the IS F didn't win any here but Top Gear loved it for being the dark horse. Amazingly the RS5 never fared well in reviews but that is glossed over (mind you that wouldn't stop me from getting in bed with it lol).

Then I remember Lexus doing something very rare, they improved the IS F EVERY year. They didn't just let it rot and wither to die. In 2010, it got a real LSD. In 2011 the new driver's oriented gauges and I believe the updated suspension which made a huge difference road and track, cutting lap times and also giving it a more compliant ride. How good? It was lapping like a M3 in some comparo's. To me that should be commended but you will never see an article praising Lexus for continuous improvement. No, instead we read the same hyperbole.

The LFA, I remember the initial reviews. They basically could be summed up with three letters "WTF". Until they drove it, again and again, and it became crystal clear this was one of the greatest cars ever made. I believe Chris Harris himself was one that loved it and stated they need to let the Toyota engineers go mad more often. The Lexus name and price point did confuse those that didn't understand or refused to acknowledge the construction of the car and why it was on par with a 599 GTO instead of a 458. Lexus went for the gusto, something we might not see for decades again. Audi with the R8 isn't in the same ballpark. BMW never even made a car like the LFA or even the R8. Only Mercedes competed here with the SLS at the time. I don't recall any articles blasting BMW for not competing.

So now we have the RC F and the coming GS F and rumors are the IS F and LS F are coming. The RC F reviews have been all over the map thus far with a lot of focus on its weight. Clarkson ripped it to shreds and it seems that might sadly be the official memo for the car (I see his view on the car regurgitated so often its amazing). But you know what, Lexus will improve it, like they did the IS F. I am sure of it. And they won't give up, they will continue to make the F marque better and better.

In retrospect these kind of articles just gives us here additional focus to help promote our love for the Lexus brand and bring people together that also love the brand and helping to educate those that are confused. Like Mr. Harris.