2018 Lexus LC 500 Competes in Car & Driver Lightning Lap

krew

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krew
17-09-06-lexus-lc-lightning-lap-2017.jpg


The flagship coupe is the second all-time fastest Lexus in the annual speedfest.
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zeusus

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Here's to all the "reviewers and commentators" who said the LC was slow, heavy, sluggish.

And ending up being faster than the actual regular F cars. There should be no doubt the F cars are fast as they have been proven to be competitive with their counterparts. Not necessarily faster but right on par.
 
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Here's to all the "reviewers and commentators" who said the LC was slow, heavy, sluggish.

And ending up being faster than the actual regular F cars. There should be no doubt the F cars are fast as they have been proven to be competitive with their counterparts. Not necessarily faster but right on par.
Thank you. I think we needed that.
 

PeterF

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impressive video. As some might know, I have driven my LC (performance package) on a track 4 separate days, including the Indianapolis Motor speedway. But, as you might have read, I have had serious problems with the engine oil overheating and the transmission oil overheating when running in Sport+ mode. Clearly the laps recorded here were done in Sport+ mode. Unfortunately, for me, my dealership has nothing to say and neither does Lexus. Either there is something wrong with my car, or the LC cannot run long in Sport+ on a track. It takes my car 6 minutes for the engine oil to get very hot, and about 8-10 minutes for the transmission fluid overheating warning to come on.

so, this looks all well and good, but it seems that it is not reflecting what the true LC capabilities of the LC are, that is that it really is not capable of sustained track use. Unless, Lexus wants to prove to me otherwise.
 

PeterF

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I finally did hear from Lexus, which is what I really wanted. They had been in extensive contact with my dealership about this, but I had not heard and each thought the other had contacted me.

In short, the LC500 is not designed for the track, it's not a F car, but it can run for some laps on a track in S+ (as was done in C& D Lightning Lap), but likely did only a few for this track day and was cooled down. after a couple of laps It doesn't have the cooling vent apparatus that will allow for continuous track driving in S+.

My conclusion is that the LC is a fast car, but right now only ready for short sprints. Just like runners or swimmers, there are some that are great at sprints, but not for endurance races. The RC F and GS F can be run continuously in S+ on a track and are more like the endurance racers.

However, the LC F will have both and will blow the socks off the other Fs and the LFA
 

Ian Schmidt

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If cooling is the main issue, I'll be shocked if aftermarket parts guys aren't already testing solutions.
 
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If cooling is the main issue, I'll be shocked if aftermarket parts guys aren't already testing solutions.
The thing is that how many LC owners will be taking their cars to the track? If its less than 100, I wonder if that would be a viable business case for an aftermarket company to make one? Perhaps if they factor in Japan, it could be plausible especially if a "JDM" company can produce a suitable one. Even if they break down more, a lot of older BMW owners do just that and there's plenty of aftermarket support.
 

PeterF

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The thing is that how many LC owners will be taking their cars to the track? If its less than 100, I wonder if that would be a viable business case for an aftermarket company to make one? Perhaps if they factor in Japan, it could be plausible especially if a "JDM" company can produce a suitable one. Even if they break down more, a lot of older BMW owners do just that and there's plenty of aftermarket support.

i doubt that there are many, nothing close to 100. It takes quite a commitment of time, energy, and money (but LC owners should be able to afford it). Also, there is track driving, and the high performance track driving where you must have an instructor and, boy, let me tell you, you really put the car to the test. Anyway, it would take putting vents in the hood and on the side panels and make sure that they are properly directing the airflow so it cools properly. In addition, the RC F's transmission is designed specially for track driving and, I believe, you have to change the design so the fluid circulates in a fashion that allows for faster cooling. It's not trivial. Most of the aftermarked additions to the LC that I have seen are all about looks, cool lips, side panels, and rear spoilers. They do make the car look good, but not perform well (well, there is a company in Texas that markets air intakes that are supposed to add 15 HP, but that doesn't deal with the cooling issue.

The LC F will have all of that down. One good thing is that apparently the LC F is a reality, but I guess we all knew that
 

mikeavelli

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There are different factors for a vehicle to overheat, the Z06 is a basically a track car that has a well documented overheating issue that was seemingly fixed for the 2018 model year. Years ago when my GS 400 was running high temps at the track some simple aftermarket coolers and changing coolent/oil did wonders. That said Peter's data is highly valuable and hopefully something is adjusted.

Considering the LC weighs quite a bit more than the RC F/GS F these times are very impressive. Mind you the LC is running a run flat tire which is not the best at the track. I suspect going with some Michelin Super Sports would cut times even more!
 
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You know the LC was a tenth of a second off of the BMW M6's time around VIR, as well as beating the M5's lap time as well. All this proves is that BMW has really lost it days, and that are cars that the LC F and GS F would've did battle with. Imagine what the TT V8 would do for both of them.
 

Gecko

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I know I sound like I'm harping on and on about this, but a big part of what makes a car both fast and easy to drive quickly is low weight. In stock form, the LC 500 is a THOUSAND pounds heavier than the LFA, and the LFA has significantly more power.

A ~625hp LC F will handily beat an LFA in a straight line, but until Lexus can find a way to trim some of the unnecessary weight from that GA-L chassis, I assume the LFA will still be the faster car on track - likely by a significant margin.

Lexus needs to aim to get the LC F to around 4k lbs or less, and shoot for ~625+ horsepower. That's no easy feat when you're planning to add more stuff to a chassis (wheels, brakes, sway bars, LSD, etc) than you're probably willing or able to take out.
 

bogglo

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I know I sound like I'm harping on and on about this, but a big part of what makes a car both fast and easy to drive quickly is low weight. In stock form, the LC 500 is a THOUSAND pounds heavier than the LFA, and the LFA has significantly more power.

A ~625hp LC F will handily beat an LFA in a straight line, but until Lexus can find a way to trim some of the unnecessary weight from that GA-L chassis, I assume the LFA will still be the faster car on track - likely by a significant margin.

Lexus needs to aim to get the LC F to around 4k lbs or less, and shoot for ~625+ horsepower. That's no easy feat when you're planning to add more stuff to a chassis (wheels, brakes, sway bars, LSD, etc) than you're probably willing or able to take out.

I agree but considering how close it came to the LFA number A 100lb-ft of torque & HP increase should push it closer to the LFA if not surpass it. Lets assume the 4.0tt is not as heavy as the 5.0 that might be the first weight loss it gets.
 

ssun30

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I know I sound like I'm harping on and on about this, but a big part of what makes a car both fast and easy to drive quickly is low weight. In stock form, the LC 500 is a THOUSAND pounds heavier than the LFA, and the LFA has significantly more power.

A ~625hp LC F will handily beat an LFA in a straight line, but until Lexus can find a way to trim some of the unnecessary weight from that GA-L chassis, I assume the LFA will still be the faster car on track - likely by a significant margin.

Lexus needs to aim to get the LC F to around 4k lbs or less, and shoot for ~625+ horsepower. That's no easy feat when you're planning to add more stuff to a chassis (wheels, brakes, sway bars, LSD, etc) than you're probably willing or able to take out.

The E63 AMG S is only 0.3s slower than the LFA on this track, and this car will be very close to the LC-F in terms of PWR. The vanilla LFA is quite slow for its PWR because its "road-going" tyres really don't have the grip to handle such a potent chassis. The track edition is still the fastest car on Green Hell without using semi-slicks. Lexus opted against using them for durability, which made no sense because the LFA is not meant to be driven more than 10k miles a year. And the owners absolutely don't care about the puny amount of money saved from "durable road tyres". The LC-F can beat the LFA as long as Lexus don't make that questionable decision again.
 

Gecko

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The E63 AMG S is only 0.3s slower than the LFA on this track, and this car will be very close to the LC-F in terms of PWR. The vanilla LFA is quite slow for its PWR because its "road-going" tyres really don't have the grip to handle such a potent chassis. The track edition is still the fastest car on Green Hell without using semi-slicks. Lexus opted against using them for durability, which made no sense because the LFA is not meant to be driven more than 10k miles a year. And the owners absolutely don't care about the puny amount of money saved from "durable road tyres". The LC-F can beat the LFA as long as Lexus don't make that questionable decision again.

There are a lot of other variables as well. LFA has a pretty low torque output for a super car, so it sacrifices outright power for driving feel and excitement. The AMG has huge torque and is also AWD.

I think we are saying the same thing. I believe LFA, and ultimately the Nurburgring Edition, will be faster around a track than a hypothetical LC F unless Lexus decides that F cars get AWD. LC F will be faster than LFA in a straight line with or without AWD.
 

ssun30

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There are a lot of other variables as well. LFA has a pretty low torque output for a super car, so it sacrifices outright power for driving feel and excitement.

Please, quit this 'low torque means weak' nonsense. I don't want to lecture anybody again how peak torque absolutely doesn't matter to acceleration of cars. A 500PS/400Nm engine and 500PS/800Nm will accelerate a car from 0-60 in exactly the same time.

Instead you need to look at the torque curve to determine how much engine power is available at each rpm. The 1LR engine is very impressive in that sense, actually. It has a very flat torque curve above 3000rpm almost like a turbocharged engine, which means power increases linearly in 2/3 of its rev range. Considering it doesn't have variable valve lift this is quite a feat. High revving NA engines usually have a bell-shaped torque curve that peaks around 6000rpm, which is why they are usually considered 'weak' due to 'low torque' compared to turbocharged engines. This is not the case for LFA.

LFA's weakness on straight line comes from the lack of traction (due to weak tyres) and a really poor transmission with way too long upshift time. Also it has 50/50 weight distribution which is not optimised for acceleration. Its mid-engine competitors accelerate faster because the rear wheels get more traction from the extra weight on the rear axle.

The LC-F definitely needs AWD to handle so much power, but is the extra weight worth it? I don't know. Usually it's a no-brainer (benefit almost always outweigh drawbacks for AWD) but for a car already this heavy I have some doubts.
 
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