Rumor: Lexus Moving Forward with Production City Car?

krew

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17-05-10-lexus-sa-rendering.jpg


New rumor from Japan suggests a production version of last year's LF-SA concept.
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spwolf

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That would be actually Yaris and A1 sized... But why use BMW platform as original article suggests?
 

Axel

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Lexus is sometimes lost with no sense of direction. What is a city car for when they got Toyota for such staff? Stop being greedy lexus/Toyota. Keep lexus a super luxury brand take out all the cheap staff that can do much better as Toyota. Lexus must be what you can't do in a toyota, if it can do better as a toyota then it shouldn't be a lexus
 

Joaquin Ruhi

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Ahhh, the Toyota/Lexus/BMW/Mini city car collaboration rumor is back again! On July 2012, I wrote a Kaizen Factor commentary piece on the expansion of the Toyota/BMW alliance that, among other things, compiled all the then-current rumors of what precise product(s) would come from that collaboration. Although the terms of said agreement made clear that they would jointly work on a sports car, Motoring File, the Mini equivalent of Lexus Enthusiast made a case for joint production of the 3429 mm-long Mini Rocketman concept with a 2nd-generation of the 2985 mm-long Toyota iQ:

http://www.motoringfile.com/2012/06/29/bmw-and-toyota-partnership-could-green-light-rocketman/

Presciently, I wrote at the time that "a rumored sub-CT, B-segment Lexus hatchback primarily for Europe would be more worthy as a MINI variant than as a glorified Toyota Yaris."

This new rumor makes it clear, however, that this purported Lexus city car would be significantly larger than the iQ or stillborn Rocketman Mini. For reference, the current Mini 5-door Hatch (or Hardtop) is 3982 mm (156.8 in) long, while the current Yaris is 3885 mm (153.0 in) long. At 3950 mm, the Spyder7-rumored sub-CT Lexus would fall roughly between the two.

As for the BMW 1.5-liter 3-cylinder engine, it's the turbocharged and direct injection unit from the current, 3rd-gen base Mini Cooper (NOT the Cooper S). Its output, however, is more like 136 ps. It is also essentially half of the BMW 3-liter inline 6.
 
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TBH I think the LF-SA concept is one of the best looking Lexus vehicles (production vehicle included). Especially I really like the front end, one of the most successful application of the spindle grille IMO. So I just hope Lexus will stay close to the concept if they make it into production.

That rendering is just... no comment.
 
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Joaquin Ruhi

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Oh boy. The BMW 1,5 3-banger is a real bad engine. Noisy, rough, not very frugal and extremely unreliable. Really unreliable. Like real sh.. design.
Yikes! I didn't know the BMW 1.5-liter 3-cylinder engine's reputation was that bad (though I can't say I'm totally surprised).

If this particular Lexus city car rumor turns out to be true (and I'm not really convinced that it is), here's hoping that Lexus is smart enough to turn to Daihatsu if it uses a 3-cylinder engine. The Daihatsu-designed Toyota KR 3-cylinder engine family has won 4 International Engine of the Year awards in the sub-1.0 liter category. Pity that all the KR engine variants are no larger than 998cc. TheAxeMurderer's suggestion of the C-HR and Auris' 8NR-FTS 1.2-liter, 4-cylinder turbo makes far more sense, unless Toyota cooks up something new from the Dynamic Force Engine family.
 

Rob Grieveson

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Interesting idea a bit off the wall but i think there is a market for jewel like smaller Lexus with the emphasis on jewel like. It must be special and please not a BMW motor especially one that seems is not their best effort. My opinion the CT was never quite special enough in terms of interior trimming etc. This car must be special though and obviously it will not appeal to the mass market rather a niche product that appeals to the well heeled person who wants a smaller vehicle but still wants the pleasure of full on luxury with it and there are many people like this worldwide. In America? perhaps not so much but certainly in Europe and many other parts of the world. Toyota is possibly the only motor company with the resources to produce such a niche product.
 

Ian Schmidt

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Yikes! I didn't know the BMW 1.5-liter 3-cylinder engine's reputation was that bad (though I can't say I'm totally surprised).

My brother's base model Mini Cooper went about 3 years and ~40,000 miles until the 1.5 3-banger was a total loss (Mini said the engine wasn't repairable, needed a total swap, even though he'd met all recommended service intervals). If this rumor's true, hopefully they won't use that engine.
 

LDeleuran

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Oh boy. The BMW 1,5 3-banger is a real bad engine. Noisy, rough, not very frugal and extremely unreliable. Really unreliable. Like real sh.. design.
Toyota also buys BMW's 1.6 diesel engines for European offerings. I know it is a previous generation engine, but it is extremely rattly. It is frugal on paper, though :)
 

spwolf

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Yikes! I didn't know the BMW 1.5-liter 3-cylinder engine's reputation was that bad (though I can't say I'm totally surprised).

If this particular Lexus city car rumor turns out to be true (and I'm not really convinced that it is), here's hoping that Lexus is smart enough to turn to Daihatsu if it uses a 3-cylinder engine. The Daihatsu-designed Toyota KR 3-cylinder engine family has won 4 International Engine of the Year awards in the sub-1.0 liter category. Pity that all the KR engine variants are no larger than 998cc. TheAxeMurderer's suggestion of the C-HR and Auris' 8NR-FTS 1.2-liter, 4-cylinder turbo makes far more sense, unless Toyota cooks up something new from the Dynamic Force Engine family.

Fun fact, daihatsu just announced turbo version of that 1.0l KR series engine, but that is still way too small for luxury - Yaris sized vehicle. I would think that updated version of 1.2l Turbo would be its base engine and that quite possibly new mid-sized turbo engine is coming too (1.5l or 1.6l?):
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/トヨタ・KRエンジン#1KR-VET


In Europe, Yaris just got all new 1.5l "base" engine, with 111hp (replacing 1.33l found in Scion iQ) which shows would what would be appropriate minimum hp for this size vehicle. I found it interesting they did not use new 1.0l 3cly turbo... cost and real world mpg maybe?

1.2l turbo is also pretty new estec engine...
 

Trexus

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Lexus bring it on. Curious on what it will be called. SA 200h or SA 200?

Still have hope that Lexus will keep the CT and hopefully expand the CT line. Audi expanded the A3. The CT has the potential to be more successful than the A3.

CT 200h/300h or 250h/350h
CT 200t or 300

F Sport all variants as well...
 

krew

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My brother's base model Mini Cooper went about 3 years and ~40,000 miles until the 1.5 3-banger was a total loss (Mini said the engine wasn't repairable, needed a total swap, even though he'd met all recommended service intervals). If this rumor's true, hopefully they won't use that engine.

Can you even imagine Lexus using a BMW engine, trading in the brand's core reliability for no good reason at all? It would go down as one of the most bizarre moves in Lexus history.

I have no insider info, I have not asked about this rumor, but I feel confident in saying there's NO WAY this part of the story is true. It would be brainless.
 

Benito

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When you consider the price of gas you quickly understand why you see such a preponderance of small cars in Europe and to a smaller extent in Canada compared with the US.