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Discussion: The Future of the Lexus LX
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automovista
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IMO: Move the LX onto a crossover platform, and turn it into a true Range Rover competitor. More luxurious, better on-road performance and dynamics, and of course a high performance F model to take on the Range Rover Sport/Supercharged/SVR/whatever the latest variant is. Leave the offroad shenanigans to the GX, which wears the rugged look well.
Lasse J. Nordvik
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Neither the GX nor the LX are especially relevant to me,being European. I therefore don't feel especially qualified to comment on this,but perhaps one of them should be replaced by a more car-like crossover? But with a long-wheelbase RX on the way,perhaps another larger cross-over would be redundant? I don't know. What do you think? Surely something is going to happen soon as their Toyota counterparts (LC 150 and LC 200) are getting rather long in the pearly whites.
mikeavelli
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I don't think Lexus needs to think in terms of one or the other. Mercedes strategy is working, they have the GLS as the car based big 7 seat SUV and they still sell the G-wagon. Lexus needs to keep the LX, some people do want the rugged 4x4 image and capabilities. Most people do want car based. So make one.
The LX is a legend, keep it around. The LS will not keep customers that want a big luxury SUV since its not a SUV. Lexus has to expand their SUV lineup.
The LX is a legend, keep it around. The LS will not keep customers that want a big luxury SUV since its not a SUV. Lexus has to expand their SUV lineup.
Gecko
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Agree with Mike. Keep LX on the Land Cruiser 200 platform, though it does truly need a redesign. The Land Cruiser line is arguably the most thoroughly engineered in the entire Toyota Motor Corp stable short of special projects like LFA. It's not as fast as a RR and maybe not as luxurious in some ways, but the LX is really in a class of 1 at this point and I would stand it up against any other SUV... it is second to none and truly a world class product.
The idea of flagship SUVs/CUVs is one of those "different flavors" scenarios where you can get everything from a G Wagen to LX to Bentayga or RR Autobiography... I don't really think one is any better than the other - it depends on what you want. Simply different tastes, but I think the LX formula is tried and true.
What's really missing from Lexus' lineup is a V6/TT V6/V8/hybrid, three-row GA-L based CUV under the LX that could line up squarely against the X5, X7, GLS Q7, etc. Presumably, that could be a GX replacement.
Something based on the GA-L platform with AWD, the LS's 3.5L TT V6, three rows of seats and 8 inches of ground clearance would not only fly off the lot but also give Mercedes, BMW, Range Rover and Porsche a run for their money.
The idea of flagship SUVs/CUVs is one of those "different flavors" scenarios where you can get everything from a G Wagen to LX to Bentayga or RR Autobiography... I don't really think one is any better than the other - it depends on what you want. Simply different tastes, but I think the LX formula is tried and true.
What's really missing from Lexus' lineup is a V6/TT V6/V8/hybrid, three-row GA-L based CUV under the LX that could line up squarely against the X5, X7, GLS Q7, etc. Presumably, that could be a GX replacement.
Something based on the GA-L platform with AWD, the LS's 3.5L TT V6, three rows of seats and 8 inches of ground clearance would not only fly off the lot but also give Mercedes, BMW, Range Rover and Porsche a run for their money.
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The LX has come back to life in popularity since the refresh/redesign of 2016, I would suggest keeping the GX and redesigning that model and then coming out with an LX that is a bit bigger to have as a true 8 seater SUV with cargo room in the back when the seats are down. That is one thing missing compared to an Escalade type SUV where they have the 3rd row and cargo room.
mikeavelli
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An X7 is coming...they can't build enough LX's...its huge in the Middle East, like dominant there. Keep the LX, build something new to go alongside it.
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True, that is a good idea. Maybe an "L" version of it with a longer wheelbase would be good?
LexusTechSA
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The LX has fantastic driving performance off road. I don't know how many people have taken them off road but I have been lucky enough to do it a few times, and it is incredible. I know most owners will probably never use that part of its capabilities but I personally would be disappointed if if they focused too much on the on road performance to the detriment of the offroad performance.
Lexus needs to do Cadillac in the luxury SUV segment the same way they did Mercedes with the LS in '89. Now is the perfect time since SUVs are blowing up. Show Cadillac how to build a proper full sized SUV cause that luxd up Tahoe really aint nothin special and Cadillac needs someone to scare them into building a better product.
Basically take what they did with the new LS and apply it to the LX. Big, beautiful with the best interior the world has yet to see in a SUV. Make a 7 seat base model then remove the center seats for a 4 seat executive model with ample leg room, large LED screens, curtains, fridge, and some other innovative stuff I cant think of.
I feel the sedan segment is tapped out. you cant beat the S Class but SUVs got some room for innovaion
Basically take what they did with the new LS and apply it to the LX. Big, beautiful with the best interior the world has yet to see in a SUV. Make a 7 seat base model then remove the center seats for a 4 seat executive model with ample leg room, large LED screens, curtains, fridge, and some other innovative stuff I cant think of.
I feel the sedan segment is tapped out. you cant beat the S Class but SUVs got some room for innovaion
Facts is, consumers are really stupid and engineers/marketeers are really dishonest. We have a chicken and egg situation.
From all so called expert analysts, they still cannot figure out why there is demand for CUVs/SUVs (defined as FWD or RWD based unibody structure with fully independent suspension). I call this blind herd mentality. For whatever argument there is for SUVs/CUVs, there is an alternative better product.
The SUV/CUV market is not mature yet, because no strategist understands the dynamics. This market will be mature once BEVs go mainstream. Thus most SUVs/CUVs on sale right now are immature products, lost in the transition from 4x4 (body-on-frame RWD based off-road vehicle) to what I would call APAV (All-Purpose-Activity-Vehicle, the SAK of personal transport).
So what should the next LX be? For the time being, a luxurious (not bling) and well performing on-and-off road SUV (RWD based unibody with FIS). Can Lexus do that? Yes, will customers buy? Yes if high quality, reliable, and with character/identity. Will I and others (Russians, Arabs,...) be interested in it? Probably, but not necessarily what I and others might be looking for.
Does Lexus need a BOF SUV? I am not sure. Using SUVs/SUTs/Trucks, I am not interested in luxury, comfort is a different thing. I do not expect a truck to drive as a sports car, nor does any SUV drive anything like a sports car. The only way to get excellent on-and off-road performance is with a 4-electricmotor, 4-wheeldrive, 4-wheelsteer BEV, with from scratch developed new suspension geometry with automatic variable height and camber adjustment. Won't ever happen due to costs.
Conclusion: As I have mentioned many times, the market is saturated with redundant and compromised products, that do not fit the needs of any group. Lexus does not need any BOF SUV, because few customers really use them as intended, and Lexus does not have the status of Mercedes, Porsche, Bentley, or even Audi (subtle or understated luxury). The RX is yet based on old platform, should stay that way and be replaced by new RWD based platform (if yet viable). The LX should be the SUV version of the LS, fit between X5 and X7 size wise. The GX should be dropped, unless "cheaply" re-badged next Land Cruiser Prado.
The Land Cruiser (300?) should remain BOF, and hopefully also in base NATO spec with updated diesel engine, V6 or I6. Solid front and rear axles should be available as an alternative to independent front and rear suspension. That is what make the Nissan Patrol (Y61) a with I6 turbo-diesel a great car.
From all so called expert analysts, they still cannot figure out why there is demand for CUVs/SUVs (defined as FWD or RWD based unibody structure with fully independent suspension). I call this blind herd mentality. For whatever argument there is for SUVs/CUVs, there is an alternative better product.
The SUV/CUV market is not mature yet, because no strategist understands the dynamics. This market will be mature once BEVs go mainstream. Thus most SUVs/CUVs on sale right now are immature products, lost in the transition from 4x4 (body-on-frame RWD based off-road vehicle) to what I would call APAV (All-Purpose-Activity-Vehicle, the SAK of personal transport).
So what should the next LX be? For the time being, a luxurious (not bling) and well performing on-and-off road SUV (RWD based unibody with FIS). Can Lexus do that? Yes, will customers buy? Yes if high quality, reliable, and with character/identity. Will I and others (Russians, Arabs,...) be interested in it? Probably, but not necessarily what I and others might be looking for.
Does Lexus need a BOF SUV? I am not sure. Using SUVs/SUTs/Trucks, I am not interested in luxury, comfort is a different thing. I do not expect a truck to drive as a sports car, nor does any SUV drive anything like a sports car. The only way to get excellent on-and off-road performance is with a 4-electricmotor, 4-wheeldrive, 4-wheelsteer BEV, with from scratch developed new suspension geometry with automatic variable height and camber adjustment. Won't ever happen due to costs.
Conclusion: As I have mentioned many times, the market is saturated with redundant and compromised products, that do not fit the needs of any group. Lexus does not need any BOF SUV, because few customers really use them as intended, and Lexus does not have the status of Mercedes, Porsche, Bentley, or even Audi (subtle or understated luxury). The RX is yet based on old platform, should stay that way and be replaced by new RWD based platform (if yet viable). The LX should be the SUV version of the LS, fit between X5 and X7 size wise. The GX should be dropped, unless "cheaply" re-badged next Land Cruiser Prado.
The Land Cruiser (300?) should remain BOF, and hopefully also in base NATO spec with updated diesel engine, V6 or I6. Solid front and rear axles should be available as an alternative to independent front and rear suspension. That is what make the Nissan Patrol (Y61) a with I6 turbo-diesel a great car.
maiaramdan
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As I always say
Turn the LX and the GX to uni body crossover
And make a real brand for the truck based SUV and put all body on frame vehicles under it's umbrella
And it's better if this new company name as the Landcruiser
Turn the LX and the GX to uni body crossover
And make a real brand for the truck based SUV and put all body on frame vehicles under it's umbrella
And it's better if this new company name as the Landcruiser
Rob Grieveson
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The Lexus range is evolving and on the face of it the LX does not fit in now, however it is too good to just drop - interesting discussion subject. In the same way the ES is also now out of line but a very good seller. The new dynamic range of Lexus has changed the Brand and no doubt new models will fit better into the range, Lexus are busy transforming into a much more exciting brand and it will take time for everything to fit in. Perhaps a new SUV type vehicle based on the LS is in the pipeline.
What news on a replacement CT this I think is now due for upgrade?
What news on a replacement CT this I think is now due for upgrade?
mikeavelli
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The refresh did wonders.... A full redesign would be something...
(excuse the poor quality pic!)
What brand for "track" cars, if Toyota is normal and Lexus is premium, and Land Cruiser is "off-road"?
Handling has mostly to do with independent suspension and setting. It can't be both a rock crawler and track monster.
maiaramdan
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The Landcruiser lineup will be simple
Hilux small to medium with Innova as luxury and Fortuner as coupe / sport
Then the medium to large pickup
Tacoma with Prado as luxury and 4Runner as coupe / sport
Finally the fullsize Tundra with Cygnus as luxury and Sequoia as coupe / sport
So a full lineup body on frame vehicles under umbrella of amazing name as the Landcruiser and it will destroy Jeep / Landrover / Ram in brand perspective and sales from the start
Regarding the performance brands
Landcruiser = TRD performance
Toyota = GR
Lexus = F / TMG (for high end performance ) as R / RS to Audi
Dream comes true
Finally regarding the ES
The position of the ES is killing the GS / IS in Lexus and killing the Avalon / Crown / Mark-X in Toyota
Imagine the Lexus / Toyota lineup without the ES
The GS / IS will be at least double
The Avalon sales will rocks up and then the Mark-X and Crown may come out
Its win win situation for everyone
Just KILL THE ES
Hilux small to medium with Innova as luxury and Fortuner as coupe / sport
Then the medium to large pickup
Tacoma with Prado as luxury and 4Runner as coupe / sport
Finally the fullsize Tundra with Cygnus as luxury and Sequoia as coupe / sport
So a full lineup body on frame vehicles under umbrella of amazing name as the Landcruiser and it will destroy Jeep / Landrover / Ram in brand perspective and sales from the start
Regarding the performance brands
Landcruiser = TRD performance
Toyota = GR
Lexus = F / TMG (for high end performance ) as R / RS to Audi
Dream comes true
Finally regarding the ES
The position of the ES is killing the GS / IS in Lexus and killing the Avalon / Crown / Mark-X in Toyota
Imagine the Lexus / Toyota lineup without the ES
The GS / IS will be at least double
The Avalon sales will rocks up and then the Mark-X and Crown may come out
Its win win situation for everyone
Just KILL THE ES
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Quite difficult when when the non-car consumers have been brainwashed into "RWD Kills".
meth.ix
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Make the LX a crossover to compete with RR Sport and give it a much better interior like the LS. Then size up the GX and keep it BOF and make it a competitor to the G-Class. Then RX L will compete with Q7, XC90, etc.
Basically what I'm saying is:
LX (Changed to Crossover but same size)
Competitors:
Range Rover/Range Rover Sport
GLS-Class
GX (Stays BOF but sizes up to be technical LX successor)
Competitors:
Escalade
QX80
G-Class
Navigator
RX L (RX but larger and competes with GXs previous segment)
Competitors:
Q7
XC90
MDX
QX60
MKT
Now LX will be top of the line but a crossover so it can be more family-friendly and doesn't weigh much since most consumers won't use it as an off-roading SUV.
The GX will be the true successor to the LX technically speaking for people who need a large SUV but also use it for towing and off-roading.
RX L will compete directly with Q7, XC90, MDX, etc. However, it may need a more upscale interior since it is in a higher segment.
BMW X7 will be most likely a crossover, but does anybody know if it will be competing with the Q7, MDX segment or the slightly larger, GLS, Range Rover Segment? Because then we will know if it will compete with RX L or LX.
Basically what I'm saying is:
LX (Changed to Crossover but same size)
Competitors:
Range Rover/Range Rover Sport
GLS-Class
GX (Stays BOF but sizes up to be technical LX successor)
Competitors:
Escalade
QX80
G-Class
Navigator
RX L (RX but larger and competes with GXs previous segment)
Competitors:
Q7
XC90
MDX
QX60
MKT
Now LX will be top of the line but a crossover so it can be more family-friendly and doesn't weigh much since most consumers won't use it as an off-roading SUV.
The GX will be the true successor to the LX technically speaking for people who need a large SUV but also use it for towing and off-roading.
RX L will compete directly with Q7, XC90, MDX, etc. However, it may need a more upscale interior since it is in a higher segment.
BMW X7 will be most likely a crossover, but does anybody know if it will be competing with the Q7, MDX segment or the slightly larger, GLS, Range Rover Segment? Because then we will know if it will compete with RX L or LX.